Rail guns are the worst weapons in game, worse than the mining lance

[Agony_Aunt]

Rail boats aren't good for CZ's because CZ ships are too tanky. I also did try long range superpen and it did work for module sniping though, whenever I hit them. But ammo was too limited to consistently win anything other than 1 low CZ with them, mostly because I kept missing. I had better luck with long range plasma slug but it's still just a lot slower than beams + multicanons.

You also need good convergence, likely a limited ammount of rails for heat management and a thermal spread low emissions power plant.

The ship I do bounty hunting in for BGS though is a 4 Rails Krait Phantom and it works wonders and one of my favorite things to fly, I think that's what you should try. I don't worry about module sniping, I just go short range blaster + plasma slug. 4 of them on a Phantom and you'll chew through anything in a haz-res. Try not to ram anyone, since your power will run very low and you won't have amazing shields because of it.

I occasionally take it into low intensity CZ's and it works well too, just not as well as the usual beams + multis, there's a reason those are the PvE meta.

Alternatively you could do it in a Krait Mk2 though it's less agile and agility is key for railguns since the way you're supposed to kill ships with them is by just hitting shot after shot affter shot repeatedly. You can fit 5 rails in them and you can avoid overheating by having 3-2 in the fire group instead of all 5 on 1 button.

Thanks for the advice. re the Krait though, seems an awful waste of those large hardpoints.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I disagree with thread title.

Thank you for the reply, although you might have missed my opening comment that the title was deliberate ragebait.

As the saying goes, if you want the correct answer to something on the internet, confidently assert an incorrect answer.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

This is kind of the issue I have with rails.

I've tried module-sniping with rails and it always seemed like the main thing you always need to know is which direction to attack from which, a lot of the time, means having a ship that'll let you strafe your target, FA-off, in order to get a suitable line-of-fire... which means, as you say, that it's often quicker to just keep blasting with a more mundane weapon.

I had fun with an iCourier that I deliberately set up with an MC and a pair of rails.
It was rewarding to target PP/Thrusters and actually knock them out but the iCourier can usually fly circles around most things so that gave me plenty of opportunity to maintain position so I could do that.
In a slower/less agile ship (such as a Keelback) you don't really have the same chance to choose your angle of attack so rails are compromised to start with.

I'm using the past-tense because, honestly, these days I tend to just bung an overcharged frag-turret in any "left over" slot(s) so it can inflict large amounts of "normal" damage in addition to what I do with the Beams/MCs.

I guess the "trick" to using rails might be to start off module-sniping with "normal" weapons and once you get comfortable with doing that, swap out one of the weapons for a rail.

I have practiced module sniping with cannons and have done much better with them than rails, which is crazy considering their slow travel time compared to the rails hitscan.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think overall there are a number of issues at play here, from choice of ship to skill to just how accurate you need to be.

I'll be stripping the rails from my keelback. Might give them a go on a different ship at some other point when in the mood.

 

[nanothargon]

I like long range plasma slug rails on the cutter for a CZ. They work well in the 2 medium hardpoints under the nose, with a fixed huge long range thermal vent beam on the same trigger. Pull range; blip fa-off and flip when they get close, then fa-on again, to maintain rail-able range. Beam melts the shield, then rails pop the module. If you want more beam, hold down the trigger. If you want rails, stick to the rails rhythm. Different modules can work; no need to fixate on the power plant. Effectively unlimited ammo due to plasma slug.

I think rails need to be paired with some kind of shield stripping to really shine, so this combo means it’s automatic. It’s the build that got me using rails as a main gun.

 

[DemiserofD]

This.

As an explorer, it's always handy to have a mining laser on your ship so you go to the effort of unlocking the mining lance so you can have a mining laser on your exploration ship and have some kind of rudimentary defence.
Equally, as a miner, a similar thing applies; you fit mining lances to your ship with the intention that they could, at least, get rid of annoying Adders and Eagles that might pester you when you arrive in a ring.

But, they don't.
They have (IIRC) about the same DPS as an un-engineered pulse laser, but they use twice the power and they can't be modified with engineering.
You might as well me using a water-pistol to defend yourself.

I've always thought they should be really good at module damage. It's not uncommon to use beam lasers to trigger power plant detonations(since they hit very fast and have a high chance of triggering them), but most beam lasers have relatively short penetration depth, which makes this difficult.

A beam laser with high module damage and penetration depth could fill a neat niche, and could combine nicely with a heavily-laden mining ship; just ram into your enemy to take down their shields, then laser away their internals!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I've always thought they should be really good at module damage. It's not uncommon to use beam lasers to trigger power plant detonations(since they hit very fast and have a high chance of triggering them), but most beam lasers have relatively short penetration depth, which makes this difficult.

A beam laser with high module damage and penetration depth could fill a neat niche, and could combine nicely with a heavily-laden mining ship; just ram into your enemy to take down their shields, then laser away their internals!

Engineering for Sturdy can really help with that.

 

[DemiserofD]

Engineering for Sturdy can really help with that.

I know that increases the AP, but I'm not sure if that changes the penetration depth.

 

[Gizzard]

Small fast ship with Class 2 Rail or Hammer SRB+Super Pen is how I tend to use them, can take on ships much larger but yeah you will need to either carry mats for reloads or pop to a station now and then.

Hammer helps massively with aim and getting the hits in the right spot, but its important you land all the 3 shots.

Just a shame we can't have a Class 3 or 4 Rail

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think overall there are a number of issues at play here, from choice of ship to skill to just how accurate you need to be.

I'll be stripping the rails from my keelback. Might give them a go on a different ship at some other point when in the mood.

They are well suited to the two medium hard points on a krait mkII. Use them with LR mod from st least 2km away after selecting the PP or FSD.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I know that increases the AP, but I'm not sure if that changes the penetration depth.

I thought depth was simply a factor of what modules, if any, are in the way.

AP fails, then hull
AP succeeds, trajectory determines if module is hit, if yes, then module damaged, if no, then hull damage.

Am I wrong?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

They are well suited to the two medium hard points on a krait mkII. Use them with LR mod from st least 2km away after selecting the PP or FSD.

Yah, i get the feeling that LR and fighting at a distance is better than up close, which is usually better for module sniping.

 

[Northpin]

You need LR Rails, some distance and Power Plant targeting.
Wearing down the hull with rails is not really optimal, but if you really want to do that, go for short range

You dont really need superpen on rails, although it may help with bad angles where PP is behind other internal

 

[galahad2069]

Just a shame we can't have a Class 3 or 4 Rail

There is a reason why they don't exist, they would be way too OP.
The build called 'yeeter' (with 4xc2 SRB rails) is already the meta, and it's not a big fun to fight against hitscan.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

There is a reason why they don't exist, they would be way too OP.
The build called 'yeeter' (with 4xc2 SRB rails) is already the meta, and it's not a big fun to fight against hitscan.

All lasers are hitscan. Multicannons practically are as well, especially if long range.

 

[Tifu]

All lasers are hitscan. Multicannons practically are as well, especially if long range.

The enhanced AX multi cannons too, long range by default and very fast shell speed (4,000 m/s).

 

[Gizzard]

There is a reason why they don't exist, they would be way too OP.
The build called 'yeeter' (with 4xc2 SRB rails) is already the meta, and it's not a big fun to fight against hitscan.

They could always impose a limit like the Guardian weapons had.

 

[S0rkvild]

Engineering for Sturdy can really help with that.

No need for that. Railgun piercing damage is 100 and that it above ALL ships hardness value. Only engineering I'd consider, depending on a build is long range or short range.
And yes, that aren't a good choice for conflict zones because those ships are overtanked and pretty much they will drain your rail ammo pretty quick before CZ ends.
I usually take a railgun in ships with odd numer or hardpoints with one in the middle, that is perfect spot for a railgun with feedback cascade which is very useful in cancelling shield boosts (...those pesky CZ Pythons)

 

[galahad2069]

All lasers are hitscan. Multicannons practically are as well, especially if long range.

Yeah but those are way less powerful.

They could always impose a limit like the Guardian weapons had.

They already have, the limit is 0.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

No need for that. Railgun piercing damage is 100 and that it above ALL ships hardness value. Only engineering I'd consider, depending on a build is long range or short range.
And yes, that aren't a good choice for conflict zones because those ships are overtanked and pretty much they will drain your rail ammo pretty quick before CZ ends.
I usually take a railgun in ships with odd numer or hardpoints with one in the middle, that is perfect spot for a railgun with feedback cascade which is very useful in cancelling shield boosts (...those pesky CZ Pythons)

We were discussing lasers in relation to that, not rails.