Ships Ramming ship - theory crafting

[CMDR Sir Boundness]

o7 CMDRs,

recently I have been wondering what would be a good ramming / frag ship so I tried to deep dive into some theory crafting...
I thought about the Ramba - but is that one really the best in slot?

At the end of the day this is what I have come up with. Maybe some calculations are overdue or not necessary, so please do not bother

ship	link
assault (B-drives)	https://edsy.org/s/vR7Dj4H
assault (A-drives)	https://edsy.org/s/vE3KuD2
assault (light)	https://edsy.org/s/vHU7lVt
drop (B-drives)	https://edsy.org/s/vghzWpk
drop (A-drives)	https://edsy.org/s/vCpyALe
drop (light)	https://edsy.org/s/vqBJhAP
Gun (B-drives)	https://edsy.org/s/vGhmmg7
Gun (A-drives)	https://edsy.org/s/vKls7kr
Gun (light)	https://edsy.org/s/vtHiMzp
Mamba (B-drives)	https://edsy.org/s/vLpis6U
Mamba (A-drives)	https://edsy.org/s/v1UX4s7
Mamba (light)	https://edsy.org/s/v4Rqoob
Orca (B-drives)	https://edsy.org/s/v3WEmDn
Orca (A-drives)	https://edsy.org/s/vzzoZqV
Orca (light)	https://edsy.org/s/vmgVlnf

What I could not answer was:

• Anyone any idea about the formula for the ramming damage?
• is just total mass or also hull rating and hull hardness important?
• how is the kinetic energy calculated in game (same as real life?

If I could only identify what is the best in slot for the ramming based on those values I could figure out what kind of weapon setup I want, what speed and by this the ship and setup I will go for

Any ideas and knowledge about this topic is highly appreciated - the internet was underwhelming empty on this topic.

Thank you and fly safe!
CMDR Sir Boundness

 

[Aleks Zuno]

While this answers absolutely none of your questions, I can contribute at least a few comments insofar as I use a lot of stabbing with a Mamba and have also tried a few alternatives. Mostly this is just to deplete shields, though—you can see it a few times in an early 3308 video and a Rapid Fire variant.

With a Mamba:

• The class 5 shield is not the best for this; it works, though something with a class 6 shield holds itself quite a bit more nicely.
• The stab damage is quite decent, speed being a notable factor.
• Because the Mamba has by far the best boost duration and multiplier, using the Landing Gear to withhold and release it can make your stab nearly unavoidable.

With a Krait 2:

• The stab damage is much heavier, despite the slower speeds involved. (Shield class? Hull mass? Total mass? Fixed starship property?)
• The terrible boost acceleration makes it one of the most avoidable stabs you can attempt to use.

With a Imperial Clipper built specifically to weigh over 1000 T just for this purpose:

• Stab damage was mediocre given the effort to contrive it.
• Boost acceleration is also mediocre.

I do not tend to stab targets with a Alliance Chieftain or a Fer-de-Lance, although I have noted that they fly quickly and smoothly but are still much too avoidable for stabbing to be the main strategy. If Hull mass is a significant factor, the Chieftain should be a much better stabber than the Krait 2, if you can use Gear-boosting to get into a position which makes the stab unavoidable. If not, I would award first place to the Mamba for being so much less avoidable.

---

Given that most collisions with an Imperial Cutter do not involve its trajectory changing much and very much do involve the other starship taking a lot of damage, I imagine it is appropriate to look at the momentum and energy before and after. Actually, before you even consider the damage, I would want to test whether Conservation of Momentum and Conservation of Energy are followed at all. For anyone unaware, the Momentum sum is linear and the Energy sum is elliptic, and an elastic collision involves the line crossing through the ellipse such that the knock jumps from one point on the ellipse to another (where the line crosses through it).

Definitely the first test should be two identical starships with Flight Assist disabled, positioned as linearly as possible, with one stationary and the other inbound at 100 m/s. Being identical, an elastic collision should leave the latter at zero and the full momentum transferred to the former. If the momentum does not transfer that way then it should open up new questions about how it works. If it does but the energy sum changes then the collisions are not elastic (crumpled hull absorbing it?), and potentially the damage caused is based on that loss.

 

[Northpin]

hull hardness important?

I dont think hull hardness is important.
Hull hardness matters in conjunction with weapon piercing.
Ramming does absolute damage and obviously has no piercing attached

But i guess you can do some tests:

• Cutter vs Mamba (same hardness, huge hull mass difference)
• Mamba and DBX (almost the same mass, considerable hull hardness difference)

 

[CMDR Sir Boundness]

Thank you Aleks Zuno and thank you also Northpin for your insights and suggestions. Both of you opened up my mind to many further ideas - and mostly more questions

Actually I am currently trying to figure out a testing procedure to clarify some of the question already asked and also verifying some of the "common known" knowledge divin around in the forums.

It will take me a while for sure, cause there are many variables around, my DoE-skills are quite mediocre, so are my math skills left from shool and university ages ago. (and I need to figure out how to repeatingly do fligh maneuvers the exact same way)

Definitely the first test should be two identical starships with Flight Assist disabled, positioned as linearly as possible, with one stationary and the other inbound at 100 m/s. Being identical, an elastic collision should leave the latter at zero and the full momentum transferred to the former.

I'll test that!

I will come back here with the results - hopefully sooner than later.

o7
CMDR Sir Boundness

 

[CMDR Sir Boundness]

answering my own post. ... oh well, but there is knowledge to share so I do it anyway.

I've done some test - 21 to be exact - see the results here (or scroll to the conclusion )

be aware I have rounded most figures here in the chart but usually not mathematical correct, just cutted of the last digits (I know I know ... )

• is the result of the crash repeadable - are there any rolls involved (DnD-like) or is it linear predictable
  • it is repeatable! no rollin' involved
• does moving or standing still matter?
  • no it does not - what counts seem to be the sum of both speeds
• does front/side/back/top/down impact area matter?
  • no it does not matter at all
• does additional mass shift the resulting damage from sidey A to sidey B?
  • this is a tricky one ... it does not look like, I've added 8tons in cargo, nothin' changed > I am not sure on this one though, maybe 8tons were not enough or mass doesn't matter for the individual ship but for both partners together ( E(kin) ) and then this energy gets devided back to the crash partners based on their hull
• does pip-management cause the expected results or is this adding more "crash resistance" over the jsut more on the shield strength?
  • it causes the expected results - the pips are acting as multipliers to the shield strength
• try to figure out the influences of speed - are they linear, potential or do they follow a kind of diminishing returns
  • it looks like the speed factors is kind of potential to E(kin)
  • 
• try to figure out the influences of mass - are they linear, potential or do they follow a kind of diminishing returns
  • not so sure about this one, I've gathered not enought data for that, see point about the mass above
• what about the hull hardness now?
  • I've eagled (28) a sidey (20) - the hull loss looked identical
• does shield have different ramming resistance then hull?
  • at one instance it looked like, but maybe I hit twice - I could not repeat that situation, all other tests showed absolut damage numbers equal between shield and hull

So what are the conclusions then?

- E(kin) seems to have kind of linear effect on the total health loss (both partners)

• E(kin) itself follows the physical laws as it looks at the moment.
• It is devided between the crash partners.
• if you want to ram - better bring some mass to the fight, because it is getting devided and the other guy might not have some
• high shield (because of the 4 pips-boost and potential regen) looks like a good idea to add
• high speed sums up the party

> mass | speed | shield-health <

So which ship you choose you ask me - I don't know

maybe I go for the Ramba...

 

[Northpin]

So which ship you choose you ask me - I don't know

Cutter, Mamba

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

• if you want to ram - better bring some mass to the fight, because it is getting devided and the other guy might not have some
• high shield (because of the 4 pips-boost and potential regen) looks like a good idea to add
• high speed sums up the party

> mass | speed | shield-health <

A conclusion that seems congruent with intuition; at least if you ever have flown a Krait with 3k armor straight through an unsuspecting poor NPC eagle