Elite / Frontier Random question about warped space/drive

[DeLeiros]

Random questions, extended...

Ok, this has little to do with Elite directly, but its something thats always confused me, and is relavent in as much as it effects how you can travel through space. So if anyone more technically minded could answer this one, I'd appreciate it...

Warp Drive etc. Time/Space becomes warped, so you can travel through it relatively more quickly than 'normal space'. My question is, isn't this pretty much the same as gravity. Isn't gravity just more condensced space? i.e. if a light beem goes through a gravitational field it bends through it, in the same kind of way that refraction occurs when a sound wave moves from sound to air? Therefore, is Warp Drives a fancy way of saying we've created a big gravitational field and jumped down into Alices rabit hole faster than if we'd left space alone. Therefore, why the big fuss about whether warp drive is possible or not? Artificially creating a gravitational field I thought had in theory at least been shown to tbe possible (but I am probably imagining this!).

Confused and bemused,

Dr. de Leiros

 

[Kipper]

Nope, its not gravity, and i'm not sure you're correct that gravity can bend light. Light doesn't bend! A massive black hole can prevent light from escaping (hence it is black) but as far as I know it doesnt bend.

Anyway, none of that has anything to do with the theory of warp drive as I understand it. Warp drive does exactly what the name suggests, it bends space, take a piece of paper, put a circle in the middle of the bottom half, and a circle in the middle of the top half. Measure the distance between the two.

Now, fold the paper in half between the circles, and now measure the distance between the two.... if you can 'fold' space, you can shorten your route through it. Space is three-dimensional (at least) so this is apparently possible.

 

[Steve]

Nope, its not gravity, and i'm not sure you're correct that gravity can bend light. Light doesn't bend! A massive black hole can prevent light from escaping (hence it is black) but as far as I know it doesnt bend.

Bending isn't really the right word, but gravity can certainly cause light to deviate. Follow this link for a better explanation

 

[Matt]

Pretty sure that warping space has been shown to be theoretically possible...not sure about the amount of energy you'd need though and what happens when two things are trying to bend space in different directions though!

 

[DeLeiros]

Cheers peeps...I'm a bit less confused now!

 

[caol]

Pretty sure that warping space has been shown to be theoretically possible...not sure about the amount of energy you'd need though and what happens when two things are trying to bend space in different directions though!

I think you are right about needing HUGE amounts of energy to warp space, but you wouldn't need to warp all of space - that'd need a ludicrous amount of energy! You'd just need to warp a small amount of space between where you are and where you are going. The equivalent (in a 2D paper world) of just bending a small strip of paper connecting your location with your desired destination (and then seemlessly returning that strip of paper back to the sheet).

A seperate question - would doing that leave "rips" in space?

 

[caol]

Gravity

The best description of gravity that I ever heard went something like this:

Imagine that you live in a completely two dimensional world and were completely unaware (unable to sense) up or down. Now imagine that this 2D world is in fact a rubber sheet a few centimetres thick. You are unaware of this thickness and just live on the surface. Planets in this 2D world can be represented by marbles (small, 3D, spherical ball(s) of glass). When these marbles are place on the rubber sheet they cause indentations in it. When a 2D creature goes near one of these marbles then they start of fall towards it - because of the slope. Of course they are unaware of the concept of down so invent a name for this strange force - gravity!

It's easy to then make the same comparison with this and our 3D world...

So, as far as I understand it, gravity does bend/warp space but in a sphere around a large body/planet/star/etc and hyperdrives theoretically bend space but in a straight line between the current location and the destination.

 

[DeLeiros]

The best description of gravity that I ever heard went something like this:

Imagine that you live in a completely two dimensional world and were completely unaware (unable to sense) up or down. Now imagine that this 2D world is in fact a rubber sheet a few centimetres thick. You are unaware of this thickness and just live on the surface. Planets in this 2D world can be represented by marbles (small, 3D, spherical ball(s) of glass). When these marbles are place on the rubber sheet they cause indentations in it. When a 2D creature goes near one of these marbles then they start of fall towards it - because of the slope. Of course they are unaware of the concept of down so invent a name for this strange force - gravity!

It's easy to then make the same comparison with this and our 3D world...

So, as far as I understand it, gravity does bend/warp space but in a sphere around a large body/planet/star/etc and hyperdrives theoretically bend space but in a straight line between the current location and the destination.

See, that was my kinda understanding of it as well...I always wondered why there could theoretically be a gravity type drive, where in effect you created a big gravity field infront of yourself...in effect causing you to continuously keep falling downwards towards a point, accelerating all the time...if that makes any sense at all

 

[Matt]

The equivalent (in a 2D paper world) of just bending a small strip of paper connecting your location with your desired destination (and then seemlessly returning that strip of paper back to the sheet).

A seperate question - would doing that leave "rips" in space?

Well I guess it depends on the theory. My lay perspective is that space is like a piece of paper - i.e. if you bend or fold or warp it, the whole thing will bend or fold or warp etc to a certain degree. Not sure about cutting out strips and stuff, and then allowing them to just rejoin once the warping is over.

 

[caol]

So really a paper sheet is a bad metaphor as it's not flexible enough. It might be better to compare 2D space to a super flexible rubber sheet and that specific parts of it can be bent to bring two points closer together. Kind of like the strip of paper idea except all the edges of the strip in questions are still attached to normal space by stretched/warped sections of space... And maybe those warped sections of space would be visible, e.g. wormholes/hyperspace clouds etc...