Rant: Frontier and closure of threads.

[jabokai]

Threads that stray into something else than topic should be closed, after warning(s). Period. It's irrelevant what they stray into.

You mean like this one posted only yesterday - a direct criticism thread that received no warning, and was closed after 30 posts, less than 6 hours after it was posted?

Also, threads straying are not necessarily the fault of the OP, as Beachlight7 said (much as his PS4 worship bores me), and can easily be used by fanbois to get a thread they don't like closed.

 

[Susimetsa]

assuming the same thing was being sold, purchased and realised after it wasn't what he thought he was buying. Most stores allow refunds for this sort of situation.

The storefront pretty clearly says what the customer is buying. Although I understand that someone might get confused, but they should have realised the difference when they went to another site (not Kickstarter) to put their money in.

I've not bought anything through the storefront yet, but I'd expect that there's an order confirmation page that will tell the purchaser exactly what they are buying before they confirm the purchase.

Refunds are not necessarily offered when the mistake is clearly the customer's. Faulty products and products that do not correspond to the product description are naturally required to be refunded.

 

[tooterfish]

I'm not understanding the gripe here?

Is the OP upset that he's not getting any additional backer rewards? Like, a couple more incidental start options and an ebook?

The wording in the store seems pretty explicit about what you're getting to me, but maybe it needs changing to be clearer (although there's a saying about idiot proofing that comes to mind). There's even a FAQ, should you wish to not spend 200 hard earned smackers blindly.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I think we have gone back and forth with you about what should alpha include. In the end FD decision to cut backer's rewards besides testing levels was right one I think. Sad that you missed the boat.

However your threads were closed down usually for going a little nuclear - either by you or your opponents. If that would be censorship, they would be outright removed (step never seen done by FD forums mods). However they are done so cool heads would prevail. Nothing to do with criticism per se

From my personal POV your complains about alpha are strange - there's tons of people out there who would be very happy to play alpha right now. But OK, you were looking for something else here. Again, sad to hear.

Peace.

p.s. in post scriptum I want to admit my respect to mods of these forums. You guys rock!

 

[jedt]

What good is that ample warning for those who come to the project now? The OP saw the project's Kickstarter page, came to the store from there assuming the same thing was being sold, purchased and realised after it wasn't what he thought he was buying.

i just looked at the store.... it states clearly, explicitly, what is being bought. it is not the same as the kickstarter. how anyone could think they were the same is beyond me.

 

[Yaffle]

Yep, here is the quote from the store:

Elite: Dangerous - Alpha
Be part of the Elite: Dangerous development team!

Buy the Elite: Dangerous Alpha now to get early access to the game while it is being developed and help us shape Elite: Dangerous!

What you get

The Alpha process is being phased, with a number of releases each focused on different capabilities and features of the game, offering you the opportunity to play, test and send your feedback to us.

Once the Alpha phase is completed, there will be two Beta phases as the whole game begins to come together, again with the opportunity for you to play, test and feedback to us.

Each of the Alpha and Beta products gives automatic access to the following development stages, and of course a download copy of the released game!

An Expansion Pass giving you automatic access to all major downloadable expansion packs to be released after the game ships.

That's pretty clear to me, I really don't see where the confusion arises.

 

[JeffRyan]

Yep, here is the quote from the store:



That's pretty clear to me, I really don't see where the confusion arises.

He got confused because he came from the KS page to the Store and thought the KS Alpha level and the Store Alpha level were the same. I think the OP has to accept he himself misunderstood but Frontier are not at fault, but I completely understand why he feels disappointed.

 

[jedt]

He got confused because he came from the KS page to the Store and thought the KS Alpha level and the Store Alpha level were the same. I think the OP has to accept he himself misunderstood but Frontier are not at fault, but I completely understand why he feels disappointed.

but the two things have different descriptions.

feeling disappointed is one thing but lambasting all and sundry is quite another.

 

[MikeSnos]

p.s. in post scriptum I want to admit my respect to mods of these forums. You guys rock!

They do? What do they listen to or play?

On topic again (hello again Mods), I think, as others have said, that any buyer in any scenario should research a little before committing to their purchase. You wouldn't commit to a £200 purchase in any situation without first checking what you're going to get or what its pros and cons are.

I spent weeks reading reviews, checking manuals online, test driving and doing all sorts of research before checking deals and battering dealers down before signing on the dotted line to order a new car recently. I would apply a similar (but proportional) level of research/check on any new item e.g. Tablet, Phone, Computer, Saitek X52 Pro, or whatever) before committing to purchase.

Admittedly the checking of product quality is not open in the case of the Alpha as it's a new product, however there have been plenty of reviews and videos showing what the product does and what it doesn't yet do. In the Alpha checking what is/isn't available is an available option. If the store or, in my earlier example, the Car Dealership, wasn't clear (whichever vendor you are talking about) you ask someone who knows, they will always be happy to help you wherever you are and whatever you're buying so you can make an informed decision/choice.

For myself I think that the Alpha is excellent and for me is good value. However I mainly backed for the pleasure of seeing the game being made. The fact that it is so good at such an early stage is a massive bonus.

The phrase that first came to mind when i read the OP was 'caveat emptor'... It's a very good phrase to keep in mind, never buy until you have peace of mind on what you're getting; not doing this is called gambling which is what many of us who backed in the Kickstarter at the beginning did... For us it was a leap of faith that, happily, was rewarded with a successful outcome; not all gambles do.

 

[jedt]

They do? What do they listen to or play?

mod rock?

... You wouldn't commit to a £200 purchase in any situation without first checking what you're going to get or what its pros and cons are.

.

i did.... the kickstarter....

 

[OillyRag]

You mean like this one posted only yesterday - a direct criticism thread that received no warning, and was closed after 30 posts, less than 6 hours after it was posted, barely even allowing the OP the chance to read and respond?

I've just read that thread and i couldn't find any reason for it to be closed.

I think we should remind everyone 'Including the Mods' that negative threads are just as valid as positive ones. As long as they follow the rules of common decency they should be allowed to run their course, sometimes you can find useful information from negativity and positive change can follow.

Nothing is perfect and as adults we should have access to all of the information not just a sugar coat, if not what is the point of being part of the community, we might as well just sit back and read the newsletters.



.

 

[MikeSnos]

mod rock?



i did.... the kickstarter....

Ah but I did say further down that not checking is a gamble which is what we did with the KS... Sometimes gambles work out... sometimes not... I think this one is definitely in the 'work out' camp

 

[Rog]

The OP opens with a statement saying that any remotely dissenting threads are choked off by the mods. Well that's not the case, threads are closed when posts start getting out of hand or when there's already 253 pages of circular arguments (recalls PS4 threads...)

Then to warn that there is no support, and that Frontier "will not work with you to resolve anything" seems a bit OTT.

It all comes across as "buyer's remorse" and sour grapes at not getting his own way on a refund.

The game + expansions is cheaper now than at Kickstarter, and nobody is forced at gunpoint to buy into Alpha.

Yes it is expensive, but if it's too expensive for you, then don't buy it. I haven't (yet).

Once you've bought the alpha and entered into it, it's a bit late to moan, and then to spread FUD because FD won't refund you.

If I paid to sit in on the Rolling Stones making their new album, I'd be totally in the wrong to ask for my money back after I'd done so.

 

[psykokow]

I've just read that thread and i couldn't find any reason for it to be closed.
I think we should remind everyone 'Including the Mods' that negative threads are just as valid as positive ones. As long as they follow the rules of common decency they should be allowed to run their course, sometimes you can find useful information from negativity and positive change can follow.
.

I'm sorry to disagree with you a little. The mods are not employed by frontier and have no obligation to protect their image. Just keep the forums going in a good way.

And The mod even put a reason for the closure..

"This thread I think has run it's course and is starting to stray.
People are advised to contact the store and support if they have issues."

Now Mods are human and make judgements that may be deemed to be too quick or wrong, but they are not working to any conspiracy.

 

[Darren Grey]

Refunds are not necessarily offered when the mistake is clearly the customer's. Faulty products and products that do not correspond to the product description are naturally required to be refunded.

Not necessarily, but it is considered good customer service, especially when the company isn't losing out with a digital product. The OP is saying he's had bad customer service when even a partial refund isn't possible after he made a mistake with his purchase. I think that's a fair complaint.

 

[Yaffle]

Not necessarily, but it is considered good customer service, especially when the company isn't losing out with a digital product. The OP is saying he's had bad customer service when even a partial refund isn't possible after he made a mistake with his purchase. I think that's a fair complaint.

Let's try another parallel. I buy, oh I don't know, an e-book by Darren Grey. I read chapter 1 and think "hang on, this isn't an Oolite book, it's an Elite Dangerous book. I know I'll get my money back. It's a digital download, he's not losing out. I've only read chapter 1 of 20, so that's 95% back please."

Would you send me a cheque Darren?

ETA - a trilogy would be a better comparison. I pay now for three e-books (of which I know part of one is written), say £30. I decide after book one I don't like it. I ask for £20 back. Would I get it?

 

[Cody]

The mods are not employed by frontier and have no obligation to protect their image.

<nods> This! The Mods here do a damn good job, often under pressure - and they're volunteers!

 

[Andy Kappa]

After having read this entire thread I can state two things with absolute certainty and a healthy dose of gratitude:

1. I'm not a moderator on the Frontier Forums (or anywhere else)

2. I don't work for Frontier Developments (or anybody else on their behalf - or indeed anybody else at all come to think of it).


If I ever appear ungrateful in regard to these two facts then perhaps somebody would be good enough to point it out me (preferably via PM so that the rest of the internet doesn't get to see my mistake before I've had a chance to rectify it).

Comment; don't comment - I don't care 'cos I won't be back in this particular thread any time soon.

 

[OillyRag]

I'm sorry to disagree with you a little.

No problem, that is your right.

Now Mods are human and make judgements that may be deemed to be too quick or wrong, but they are not working to any conspiracy.

<nods> This! The Mods here do a damn good job, often under pressure - and they're volunteers!

I'm not suggesting any conspiracy, and i agree the Mods do a very good job.

I do however think that every now and again, a gentle reminder of our joint responsibility to protect everyone's freedom of speech is sometimes a good idea


.

 

[huwthomas]

Not necessarily, but it is considered good customer service, especially when the company isn't losing out with a digital product. The OP is saying he's had bad customer service when even a partial refund isn't possible after he made a mistake with his purchase. I think that's a fair complaint.

It would be a fair complaint except he tried out the product and in fact appears to have used it to its fullest possible extent.

It's like buying a movie, watching it, and then saying you bought it by mistake. Now, it's possible that that could happen, but you can't blame the vendor for not wishing to refund under those circumstances. Not because they want to treat the customer unfairly, but because it could open a can of worms...