Re-add limitless Premium ammo with plasma slug.

Noobilite

Noobilite
Plasma slugs logical benefit is the endless use of premium ammo. It's convenient and fun to use. Why not put it back as a feature of the game.

I've been planning to build this layout. Ignore the non weapons stuff. https://s.orbis.zone/2zl7

I'm not sure on the exact balance issue. I know that currently this setup is an alternative to the other max damage setup with ShortRange+Oversized on the Imperial rails as far as DPS. Not sure if it's a problem as you may just be adding ammo. Not sure on the overall fuel usage from plasma slug. If anything you could do something like change the plasma slug bonus to like 12.5-15% reduction or something to make it balance. Not sure if that is even needed though. It would add some of the fun back into plasma slug and give it a use. Although one of the bonuses of this damage amounts is that you do 210 damage to modules with 2 imperial hammers. This is good for one shottting. Not sure where it's minimum needed damage is.

You could also change it so plasma slug can't be upgraded by ammo refil. And make it not drop the bonus of premium with refueling in stations either unless you reapply the standard ammo bonus. Permanent premium ammo could be it's main objective. It would make it a hell of a fun secondary potentially.

Anyone know any more of the specifics to plasma slug from a balance perspective. Or did they re-add this already and I missed it?
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Have you used the hammers on the nacelles?
I don't recall your answer about that last time you were discussing this.
Seems like you're going to miss with at least one most of the time, making the theory crafting sort of moot.
 

Noobilite

Noobilite
I haven't gotten them yet to try them. Still getting my rep with imperial. Still hoping it either aims or makes it easy to hit multiple modules. It would go really well with super penetrator probably, but I want all plasma slug to try it.

I need to get money to start building the ship while locked in imperial space. I need a about 500-1000 million or more to start my grind with weapons. Although I guess I could try to grind combat money. Also keep forgetting to go get the shield module unlocked.

Besides. I can always keep two firegroup combos. one with PA's and 4xHammers. And one with PA's and 2x middle hammers for accurate sustained fire.
 
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Noobilite

Noobilite
I finally got to play around with engineered normal rail guns. They do converge on targets from the cutters wings at around 4km+. So, a long range build would be useful. And a really useful place for this damage bonus.

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Outside of any balance issues. Just being able to refuel with a fuel scoop without removing the bonus would be great. I'd take some extra DPS drop in order to get a constant bonus. Say up to 13.33..% drop from plasma slug. A littler weaker for a nice long term bonus. 13.33% would put a standard 15% bonus back to normal with an extra 15%(12.7effective) long term bonus from premium. That is a good deal for all that extra ammo. It seems almost like a perfect fit.

And I tested the ammo. I think it scales to around 50 shots per reservoir. don't have enough to tests more atm. Have too put it on other ships one day. It's between 0.022 and 0.025 ammo per shot if it all works the same as it does with rail guns. I tested with 2d high capacity plasma slug rail guns.

13.33% reduction from plasma slug would make it's base damage 13 per shot for imperial hammers. 15% added from standard bonus would put you at 14.95 damage . And 30% from premium would put you at a nice 16.9 per shot. That makes it a little weaker but with much more potential for overall damage with fuel reserves. Add the ability to keep the bonuses indefinetly and it's pretty balanced potentially. It gives wiggle room for others to out pace you.

This is the short ranged version:

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This is what I would do without the wing cannons. Either way, I think you can kind of do this now, but you have to refuel constantly at a station to not break the refuel. Refueling from a sun would be nice or you can't leave a single system without accidentally removing the bonus. It would be nice to be able to keep it long term. It would give Plasma slug a good use again.

So, to recap:
Plasma slug:
-13.33% damage
-40% thermal load

Loss of bonus only happens on full/ammo restock. Refueling from a sun would no longer remove the bonus.

Edit: BTW, does anyone know if the convergence range is any different between the normal rail guns and the imperial hammers? Normal rails are about 4km or more.
 
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Shadowed

Shadowed
I use 2 plasma long range hammers on my Cutter. They only work on the underside medium hardpoints where the huge hardpoint is located. The nacelle medium hardpoints work best as turrets. All the other hardpoints on the Cutter are excellent for fixed weapons.

6km sniping works best when the railguns are on the bottom. Convergence is the same for all railguns. They destroy drives very quickly when both railguns hit.

Heat generation is a problem though. I use 2 fixed large beam lasers with efficient + thermal vent to help. I went for G5 weapons focused distributor to greatly help reduce thermal load for rapid firing.

Oh, I also included a 32t fuel tank just to reduce the need for refueling. As long as you have around ~100t of fuel or above, you can fire a lot of shots.
 

Noobilite

Noobilite
I was playing with some regular rail guns and they appeared to converge nicely at over 4km.(I didn't do any weapons tests as I didn't have long range on them.) Are you sure the wing cannons at long range can't support rail guns for sniping? I was assuming maybe I could fire short range with 2 middles and long range with 4. Or I was hoping to be able too.
 

Shadowed

Shadowed
I wouldn't bother. It would limit the viability of your railguns unless you plan on having 2 different firing groups. What are you planning on using your bottom mediums for?

No way you can handle 4 hammers without heat issues. 2 is definitely as much as the Cutter can handle for non stop shooting.

I'd start with engineering 2 hammers and playing around with it. I started with G1 long range + plasma slug and it didn't take long to get to G5.

Once you heat up too much, g5 efficient plasma slug advanced plasma accelerators can take over.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Endless premium ammo was a bug and never balanced, nor should weapons or effects be balanced around a free 30% base damage increase.

Plasma slug is fine as is, synthesis clearly not being reasonable for a weapon that consumes ship fuel rather than ammunition.
 

Noobilite

Noobilite
Plasma slug in large ships increases the output over time because of increased ammo. It's good for long term farming with non laser weapons. So, it's balanced by weapon damage reduction. Hence lower it to a lower value and allow it to farm longer. I would like the convenience.

I wanted to use it for a scout like ship that was good for going system to system and not be bound to one place. It does that but you can't use premium ammo in essence. I would take a greater damage reduction for long term increases.
 

Noobilite

Noobilite
RELSPI said:
The balancing is in not having that. Ypu can only use it in a neutron system, or off one jumponium. Situational at best, but a nice little thing.
Click to expand...

what if we made it a different bonus altogether. Maybe a 20% bonus. And it can't be used with premium reloads(one replaces the other.). But it can be kept for a certain amount of time like 1 hour. Then we could have star cruiser combat ships that can freely fly around systems looking for battle! 8)

Maybe get rid of premium ammo reloads with plasma slug altogether. Just make it unsuable wiht plasma slug weapons. The bonus is then getting a 20%(8% effective) bonus by using neutron or white dwarfs..

That would be double the loss potentially. Although not literally.

example:
0.9*1.2=1.08% gain!

That means a plasma slug would be 15*0.9=13.5*1.2=16.2

Maybe two different bonuses. 20% from white stars and 30% from neutron stars.

0.9*1.3=1.17%.

Or 15 and 30 percent to go with the current bonuses but with a different way of achieving them. Then it's the same as now. But could be changed later for balance if needed.
 
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Noobilite

Noobilite
If they do that they could also re add regen to shields during combat and rebalance combat for more interesting things. This game is simplified at all points to it's core. It's a real shame.
 
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