Re-balancing ... Crash the galactic economy, and make game achievements require maintenance?

TobyB1

T
Here's a few ideas.

I want to see a MASSIVE crash in the galactic economy - we’re seeing 1920’s hyperinflation at the moment, what about a 1930’s Great Depression - with Colonia relatively immune. I would like to see the value of all activities relative to the costs of ships and their outfitting fall ... to a point where "routine" trading, old-fashioned common minerals mining, rare-commodity trading, etc all become worthwhile and important again. Colonia sheltered as it’s so far away … and to encourage (create?) trade to/from the Orion Spur Bubble.

At the same time, a huge new game mechanic where maintaining, repairing and fuelling becomes a real and significant part of game play ... remember how much each round costs before you hit the trigger! The game already has corrosive Thargoid material degrading ship components ... so the basics for coding are there.

Normal D&E-class modules are cheap and easy to maintain/repair. Higher class ones are not only expensive to buy, but should also be proportionately more expensive to maintain. And repairs for high-class stuff could only available in higher-tech and/or more specialised shipyards – so you need to travel to, or base yourself there. “ Specialised” might be not just pertain to technical abilities, but also to attitudes to reputations (famous explorers or rogue traders?) , criminal records, etc. This already exists in game for where you purchase them. Maybe you’d need components too. Engineered modules cost more and even more specialised centres to service/maintain. And certainly need components to refit. High performance components need a lot of maintenance and wear out quicker. Heavy duty last better. Worn out modules drop grades in terms of function, but retain maintenance costs, weight, etc. Un-maintained thrusters run slowly, but jump drives become unreliable with reduced range and mis-jumps increasingly common. Creaky old shields fail unpredictably, and worn weapons overheat, misfire and might even explode. Misaligned sensors misguide docking manoeuvres which might be expensive to repair (the stations landing pad, even if your shields held!) but be even more costly when you are fined and black-listed from docking privileges so you can’t repair your ship or sell your cargo. Cash can’t always buy your way out … black-market in reverse … imagine paying massively over-the-odds for a dodgy “repair” just to be able to limp out of the system to somewhere your reputation hasn’t reached yet? And all the pirates local intelligence networks will know the moment when you launch ... and merchants at stations in your jump range might know just what cargo you need to off-load and offer you appropriate prices when you limp into port?

Think of the “cars model”. In Europe, N.America, etc. in densely populated areas … mid-range cars easy to buy (new and second-hand) and maintain. Luxury and sports cars, more expensive and less available. Super-cars, and race-track-engineering? It’s cheaper to keep warm burning £10 notes! Travel into Sub-Saharan Africa or Central Asia in a relatively old-tech mid-range common vehicle, and you’ll find a mechanic who’ll keep it running somehow. An off-road vehicle … you might be fine. A Bentley or a Lamborghini, let alone a Ferrari F1 race engine, no chance! Anyone familiar with the costs, unreliability and hassles of running a vintage car? Or the reliability of “genuine factory parts” sourced off e-bay?

So – Class A jump drives need a major service after 100 full range jumps, but D’s will do 2500 … Class E thrusters will potter along for months with just topping up the fuel tank, but Class A Grade 5 Dirty Drag’s need a full rebuild after 15 hours of full-throttle … and if you don’t refit your luxury cabins to this season’s fashion after abuse by spoilt brats, you’ll find only Business and eventually Economy passengers will pay to travel in them. Outposts and tatty old Coriolis stations in poor anarchy's will almost always refit a Cobra somehow, but an A-rated FDL might be beyond them … and your Cutter will need to get to a first-class Imperial dockyard for even basic repairs and servicing. In some parts of space it might be more economic to scrap the once-fancy but now worn-out power distributor for something simpler that’s affordable to run and doesn't cut out during high demands. Pirates, smugglers and the like might find it easier to fly less specialised craft from outlaw stations than risk being interdicted by Security Services for running a cracked power plant leaking high-grade radiation.

And if game-achievements (i.e. ships) now need maintaining … maybe the same goes for Ranks … if you’ve not kept up with your service record, in your worn-out ill-fitting desperately old-fashioned Admiral’s uniform you could find the Federal dockyard won’t touch your equally tatty old Corvette!

For FDev’s, there’s potentially a huge amount of interesting game play here to work in … none of these ideas are new, they are familiar tropes of so many novels and films set in every real or imaginary world and period of time, often vital parts of the narrative … think of the new missions, game events and stories you can write in with these? Although done badly, it’ll inevitably lead to shout’s of “More GRINDING”.

And for FDev’s accountants … paint jobs get tatty and old fashioned, ship kits even more so!
 
I actuall like the OP's idea about making the game hard again by making the galaxy a harsh unforgiving place. Mission rewards are way out of whack, you could literally buy a type 6 and burn it after doing a fairly standard cargo mission over a couple of runs, and still be in proffit, you know the deliver 182 units of [mid priced commodities] to an outpost or planetary settlement for 5mill. I usually keep a couple of small burner strike fighters for ground assault missions, g1DD a spec thursters through remote workshop, I do half a dozen missions in them and dispose of them as a complete loss.
 
The universe started as a harsh unforgiving place. Then there was the "Game is Grindy!" thread plague of 2015-2017. They deployed the "Core Mining is Big Bucks" vaccine in 2018 and that malady disappeared. Don't be an anti-vaxxer. :p
 
I actuall like the OP's idea about making the game hard again by making the galaxy a harsh unforgiving place. Mission rewards are way out of whack, you could literally buy a type 6 and burn it after doing a fairly standard cargo mission over a couple of runs, and still be in proffit, you know the deliver 182 units of [mid priced commodities] to an outpost or planetary settlement for 5mill. I usually keep a couple of small burner strike fighters for ground assault missions, g1DD a spec thursters through remote workshop, I do half a dozen missions in them and dispose of them as a complete loss.
I agree. Cargo run/pickup missions should be a bit more profitable then using the commodities markets with a time bonus as standard. As it stands, a lot of the time it would be cheaper for the mission giver to buy his/her own ship and do the mission themselves which doesn't make much sense.

I like the idea of the degrading modules too. It's certainly something I would like to play.
 
Here's a few ideas.

I want to see a MASSIVE crash in the galactic economy - we’re seeing 1920’s hyperinflation at the moment, what about a 1930’s Great Depression - with Colonia relatively immune. I would like to see the value of all activities relative to the costs of ships and their outfitting fall ... to a point where "routine" trading, old-fashioned common minerals mining, rare-commodity trading, etc all become worthwhile and important again. Colonia sheltered as it’s so far away … and to encourage (create?) trade to/from the Orion Spur Bubble.

At the same time, a huge new game mechanic where maintaining, repairing and fuelling becomes a real and significant part of game play ... remember how much each round costs before you hit the trigger! The game already has corrosive Thargoid material degrading ship components ... so the basics for coding are there.

Normal D&E-class modules are cheap and easy to maintain/repair. Higher class ones are not only expensive to buy, but should also be proportionately more expensive to maintain. And repairs for high-class stuff could only available in higher-tech and/or more specialised shipyards – so you need to travel to, or base yourself there. “ Specialised” might be not just pertain to technical abilities, but also to attitudes to reputations (famous explorers or rogue traders?) , criminal records, etc. This already exists in game for where you purchase them. Maybe you’d need components too. Engineered modules cost more and even more specialised centres to service/maintain. And certainly need components to refit. High performance components need a lot of maintenance and wear out quicker. Heavy duty last better. Worn out modules drop grades in terms of function, but retain maintenance costs, weight, etc. Un-maintained thrusters run slowly, but jump drives become unreliable with reduced range and mis-jumps increasingly common. Creaky old shields fail unpredictably, and worn weapons overheat, misfire and might even explode. Misaligned sensors misguide docking manoeuvres which might be expensive to repair (the stations landing pad, even if your shields held!) but be even more costly when you are fined and black-listed from docking privileges so you can’t repair your ship or sell your cargo. Cash can’t always buy your way out … black-market in reverse … imagine paying massively over-the-odds for a dodgy “repair” just to be able to limp out of the system to somewhere your reputation hasn’t reached yet? And all the pirates local intelligence networks will know the moment when you launch ... and merchants at stations in your jump range might know just what cargo you need to off-load and offer you appropriate prices when you limp into port?

Think of the “cars model”. In Europe, N.America, etc. in densely populated areas … mid-range cars easy to buy (new and second-hand) and maintain. Luxury and sports cars, more expensive and less available. Super-cars, and race-track-engineering? It’s cheaper to keep warm burning £10 notes! Travel into Sub-Saharan Africa or Central Asia in a relatively old-tech mid-range common vehicle, and you’ll find a mechanic who’ll keep it running somehow. An off-road vehicle … you might be fine. A Bentley or a Lamborghini, let alone a Ferrari F1 race engine, no chance! Anyone familiar with the costs, unreliability and hassles of running a vintage car? Or the reliability of “genuine factory parts” sourced off e-bay?

So – Class A jump drives need a major service after 100 full range jumps, but D’s will do 2500 … Class E thrusters will potter along for months with just topping up the fuel tank, but Class A Grade 5 Dirty Drag’s need a full rebuild after 15 hours of full-throttle … and if you don’t refit your luxury cabins to this season’s fashion after abuse by spoilt brats, you’ll find only Business and eventually Economy passengers will pay to travel in them. Outposts and tatty old Coriolis stations in poor anarchy's will almost always refit a Cobra somehow, but an A-rated FDL might be beyond them … and your Cutter will need to get to a first-class Imperial dockyard for even basic repairs and servicing. In some parts of space it might be more economic to scrap the once-fancy but now worn-out power distributor for something simpler that’s affordable to run and doesn't cut out during high demands. Pirates, smugglers and the like might find it easier to fly less specialised craft from outlaw stations than risk being interdicted by Security Services for running a cracked power plant leaking high-grade radiation.

And if game-achievements (i.e. ships) now need maintaining … maybe the same goes for Ranks … if you’ve not kept up with your service record, in your worn-out ill-fitting desperately old-fashioned Admiral’s uniform you could find the Federal dockyard won’t touch your equally tatty old Corvette!

For FDev’s, there’s potentially a huge amount of interesting game play here to work in … none of these ideas are new, they are familiar tropes of so many novels and films set in every real or imaginary world and period of time, often vital parts of the narrative … think of the new missions, game events and stories you can write in with these? Although done badly, it’ll inevitably lead to shout’s of “More GRINDING”.

And for FDev’s accountants … paint jobs get tatty and old fashioned, ship kits even more so!
I... agree! This is how simulation should be. Would also make the already obvious, but often ignored, fact more clear: things in Elite take time and the goal is not to simply have the best of the best.
Well, the maintenance stuff is much to harsh for explorers, especially the FSD bit. 100 jumps is nothing. Even 1000 jumps is nothing. We shouldn't be forced to go back to the Bubble. Doing maintenance ourselves after 2000 jumps or so would be okay. :)
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
For FDev’s, there’s potentially a huge amount of interesting game play here to work in … none of these ideas are new, they are familiar tropes of so many novels and films set in every real or imaginary world and period of time, often vital parts of the narrative … think of the new missions, game events and stories you can write in with these? Although done badly, it’ll inevitably lead to shout’s of “More GRINDING”.
If the ideas are not new, and not particularly difficult to implement, one wonders why Frontier didn't go down this route?

It's possible that they didn't consider a make-work-to-stand-still approach would work for Rank (as Rank in the previous games only ever increased). Similarly with maintenance - as has been mentioned, explorers may make thousands of jumps - they may also be months out of dock at a time.

Whether changing any of this now would add to players' "fun" would probably very much depend on the player.
 

TobyB1

T
Explorer's do make loads of jumps ... so they need to equip themselves with heavy-duty, hard-wearing kit that is easy to maintain with AMU's ... not highly-tuned fragile engineering. To go back to the "car" analogy, you'd head off on a continent-crossing or around-the-world expedition in something like a Landrover Defender tuned for reliability and carrying a lot of spares, or even an HGV that anticipates covering huge mileages between servicing ... you wouldn't expect to manage that in an Italian sports car.
So ... explorers need kit to do long jumps multiple times without major wear'n'tear reliability concerns. A long-range fast courier ship might have a better jump range due to a lightweight and highly-tuned build, but a Bubble-Colonia run would leave it needing a major refit.
Degradation with time and maintenance isn't new to gaming mechanics ... Civilisation and it's many copies come to mind ... I'm not sure but Frontier may already be doing it in their Zoo/Fairground games ...
 

TobyB1

T
One additional thought I forgot from my first post ...
Fleets ... they need maintaining too ... there must be a cost for berthing/storage ... and to keep them ready for use they also need maintaining. A cheaper option might be to mothball them, but then less available, and perhaps dated when you get them out of cold storage.
So ... can you afford to maintain a large fleet of single-purpose craft ... or is a single multi-role hull that you exchange-fit for different missions more economic and practical?
Once again ... achievements don't last forever, unless you look after them ...
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Sounds like a recipe for turning the game into a second job - if any real-time related costs were implemented or degradation of ranks - which would have a detrimental effect on those who play the game occasionally.
 
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TobyB1

T
"Not fun"
Hmmmm ...
Depends on what players want.
There a LOADS of players who don't think the game is "fun" anymore after they have quickly acquired all the toys and badges due to massive inflation in the risks/rewards, and ask what happens in the "end game?"
If you have to keep playing to stand still, there is no end in sight ...
 
So if you can't play for a week (or let's say a month) you lose everything and have to start over?

No, thanks.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
.... and the proposals would seem to make the "end game" an increasing grind to stand still.

Of the "LOADS of players" who don't find the game to be "fun" now, how many would find the proposed changes "fun"?

.... and what of the players who do currently enjoy the game?
 
"Not fun"
Hmmmm ...
Depends on what players want.
There a LOADS of players who don't think the game is "fun" anymore after they have quickly acquired all the toys and badges due to massive inflation in the risks/rewards, and ask what happens in the "end game?"
If you have to keep playing to stand still, there is no end in sight ...
If you want an unpaid job, there are other games which will more easily let you indulge that particular want.
 

TobyB1

T
Who suggested loosing everything? Not me?
If you have a car in the garage you only use for occasional trips it usually carries on just fine.
If you lock up your house and head off with a rucksack for 6-9 months travelling, when you get back you might find the tyres are soft and the battery flat ... and your fridge may have died, and your broadband supplier has upgraded it's tech so your modem doesn't connect, and your computers OS is a generation out-of-date ...
I was suggesting that wear'n'tear primarily occurs in game time, not real time ... so if you cover 350,000 LS and a couple of hundred jumps in a week of intensive game play your ship will need a lot of work to refit ... another player who, in the same week, has shifted a few cargoes in a single-jump loop in a quick evening's hour of play will have incurred almost none ...
 
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