re: Statement on Harassment
- Thread starter EidLeWeise
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rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
They are. But as Ian has said, best thing you can do really is to email community@frontier.co.uk. Voicing them here is fine, but emailing the CM team is definitely best course of action for such things.
This means I have to stay in my doggie crate for how long?
Greetings,
The Statement on harrassment. Interesting that it was closed without discussion so now we are discussing it on this thread currently at 29 pages. Maybe Arthur should have kept it open for discussion.
A moderator states how an action in the game works.
A player replies "This is totally stupid".
Does this mean this is totally stupid action or comment by the moderator?
Is the player referring to the moderator or the action?
Would ten moderators agree as to the meaning?
This ruling is a "Zero Tolerance" policy which often doesn't work well in society. I would explain more but the Forum doesn't allow that about how the world works. Why? It is deceiving on the surface when someone obviously breaks the rules in a worse case the banning is totally justified. We all agree. Simple.
But the world is not black and white instead many shades of grey. Every human has their own opinion per a Forum post and many never agree. Add in culture and languages differences with players all over the world playing ED and the meaning and/or intention of a post is not always understood correctly. Heck even the English speaking countries don't always understand their posts. How many times in the past that Frontier promoted something and the rest of the world said, "Huh?" trying to understand the UK language? Figuring out who would get a Cobra Mk IV was one example with more UK posts to clarify the first one.
History says that "Zero Tolerance" policies often ends up as a group of people subconsciously adding their own emotions and fears to enforcing them resulting in abuse especially when the offence is on a grey borderline. It is human nature and often ends up banning more than was intended per an added agenda.
So, let's blame this new policy on T.J.!
Is that OK? How many moderators know T.J.? How many know this for years is a humorous running satire that T.J. understands reducing tensions over game issues? Per his responses he is OK with it and correspondingly is probably the most famous and best liked moderator on the Forum.
Elite Dangerous with the steep learning curve, considerable grinding and the possibility of losing everything with or without PvPers looking for live kills adds built-in anxiety for every player that launches the game. New players seriously worry about this while experienced players keep an eye on this especially when updates often add more problems then they resolve. Changing the game nerfing ships and weapons or making a play style more difficult only adds to the frustrations. Add in the Odyssey issues and previous bugs that have never been fixed while players in Horizons cannot complete engineer requirements since Odyssey update 5 was released. Add to the frustration. Players are going to vent.
There are players who over the years have spent serious money in the thousands in hardware and massive amounts of time playing ED then want to rant now and then including, "WHAT WERE THE DEVS THINKING?". Negative rants will always be a part of this Forum including putting someone down who disagrees with them. I reply to someone who is ranting and they attack me personally. It's OK knowing that they are upset with the game and don't have a clue who I am. It is built-in per the game design. Frontier did that. Moderators should have the same understanding per a rant knowing that it is really not about them then deal with it.
So as a moderator delete their post and give them a warning. If they continue in the worse case ban them from posting on the Forum for the specific thread or worse case months on the Forum. This is how it has worked on the Forum for years without needing a "Zero Tolerance" permanent ban. This is an emotional response which will not end well versus allowing players to vent.
Also provide a link so that they can dispute a ban and state their case. Banning someone permanently across all Elite Dangerous social media is too extreme. Moderators should be very tolerant of players who love this game and post with their frustrations.
I know Frontier didn't give you an easy job nor help a a lot. Moderators should get paid for their abuse.
Regards
The Statement on harrassment. Interesting that it was closed without discussion so now we are discussing it on this thread currently at 29 pages. Maybe Arthur should have kept it open for discussion.
A moderator states how an action in the game works.
A player replies "This is totally stupid".
Does this mean this is totally stupid action or comment by the moderator?
Is the player referring to the moderator or the action?
Would ten moderators agree as to the meaning?
This ruling is a "Zero Tolerance" policy which often doesn't work well in society. I would explain more but the Forum doesn't allow that about how the world works. Why? It is deceiving on the surface when someone obviously breaks the rules in a worse case the banning is totally justified. We all agree. Simple.
But the world is not black and white instead many shades of grey. Every human has their own opinion per a Forum post and many never agree. Add in culture and languages differences with players all over the world playing ED and the meaning and/or intention of a post is not always understood correctly. Heck even the English speaking countries don't always understand their posts. How many times in the past that Frontier promoted something and the rest of the world said, "Huh?" trying to understand the UK language? Figuring out who would get a Cobra Mk IV was one example with more UK posts to clarify the first one.
History says that "Zero Tolerance" policies often ends up as a group of people subconsciously adding their own emotions and fears to enforcing them resulting in abuse especially when the offence is on a grey borderline. It is human nature and often ends up banning more than was intended per an added agenda.
So, let's blame this new policy on T.J.!
Is that OK? How many moderators know T.J.? How many know this for years is a humorous running satire that T.J. understands reducing tensions over game issues? Per his responses he is OK with it and correspondingly is probably the most famous and best liked moderator on the Forum.
Elite Dangerous with the steep learning curve, considerable grinding and the possibility of losing everything with or without PvPers looking for live kills adds built-in anxiety for every player that launches the game. New players seriously worry about this while experienced players keep an eye on this especially when updates often add more problems then they resolve. Changing the game nerfing ships and weapons or making a play style more difficult only adds to the frustrations. Add in the Odyssey issues and previous bugs that have never been fixed while players in Horizons cannot complete engineer requirements since Odyssey update 5 was released. Add to the frustration. Players are going to vent.
There are players who over the years have spent serious money in the thousands in hardware and massive amounts of time playing ED then want to rant now and then including, "WHAT WERE THE DEVS THINKING?". Negative rants will always be a part of this Forum including putting someone down who disagrees with them. I reply to someone who is ranting and they attack me personally. It's OK knowing that they are upset with the game and don't have a clue who I am. It is built-in per the game design. Frontier did that. Moderators should have the same understanding per a rant knowing that it is really not about them then deal with it.
So as a moderator delete their post and give them a warning. If they continue in the worse case ban them from posting on the Forum for the specific thread or worse case months on the Forum. This is how it has worked on the Forum for years without needing a "Zero Tolerance" permanent ban. This is an emotional response which will not end well versus allowing players to vent.
Also provide a link so that they can dispute a ban and state their case. Banning someone permanently across all Elite Dangerous social media is too extreme. Moderators should be very tolerant of players who love this game and post with their frustrations.
I know Frontier didn't give you an easy job nor help a a lot. Moderators should get paid for their abuse.
Regards
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Funny how it's ok for Moderators to talk about forum moderation .... I was tempted to use the report button (I wouldn't ask why I didn't, you might not like the answer).
Ask Arthur who took it.
He would have to take the Fifth.
"This is stupid" isn't a personal attack. It's someone calling something stupid.
"You are stupid" or "[Person's name] is stupid" is a personal attack. I mean, even "Fdev is stupid" isn't personal. Although I doubt calling Fdev collectively names like that or harsher will get someone very far in life here.
Either way, common sense should be employed. And we cannot be held responsible for those who lack enough to avoid saying something harmful to an individual. I fail to see how this has made the mod's jobs any tougher, by the way (seems to be another common thread is that mods will struggle to handle this process...) It was always punishable by a ban if someone was personally abusive. The only difference is it'll now be a permanent ban.
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This:
en.wikipedia.org
almost certainly turns into this:
en.wikipedia.org
Counterforce - Wikipedia
almost certainly turns into this:
Countervalue - Wikipedia
stormyuk
Volunteer Moderator
People keep asking questions. We try to be helpful. Sorry if that disappoints. I could explain what happens when a moderator is reported but, I am going to stop now.
Why wouldn't moderators be allowed to talk about moderation? The rule isn't there to stop them doing it.
Wait hold on... I'm talking about moderation now...
If a moderator has an ego then they should not be a moderator easily offended. Supporting Elite Dangerous is not easy. I and many others will support any moderator doing a very difficult task. Let us know how.
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We're in the middle of 'troubled times' - give it a couple of weeks and things might quieten down a little
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
It's not permitted to discuss specific moderation actions, mainly. It's all about the context. I suggest you read the forum rules if you are in doubt.
Ah yes, those "troubled times" when someone asks to stop getting personally abused on the internet and the world blows up over itWe're in the middle of 'troubled times' - give it a couple of weeks and things might quieten down a little
Controversy!
Hehe.. I know - now read what I wrote again, think over the average memory retention here, then extrapolateAh yes, those "troubled times" when someone asks to stop getting personally abused on the internet and the world blows up over it
Controversy!
I'm still surprised that 'abuse' need to be explained to anyone
But who decides in the many shades of grey my comments or anyone else decided to ban players permanently on the Forum? That is scary...
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