I've got a good one, but won't write it as you'll get jelly.
re: Statement on Harassment
- Thread starter EidLeWeise
- Start date
- Status
My only issue with this statement is the use of the phrase "Deemed Harmful"
Well that's a broad net ain't it? This is the same kind of shenanigans that publishers like Facebook, Twitter and Youtube pull. Who deems it harmful, how is it deemed harmful, can the definition of harmful be changed? One day's "Constructive criticism" is another day's "Mental Health Emergency incident" because people are never in the same emotional state day by day, heck, even hour by hour.
I'm also curious, was there a massive inciting incident to this post? I'd like to see what was so egregious it effectively required rewriting how the CM handles the entire community. Just for my own curiosity, or was it Death by a Thousand Cuts?
Well that's a broad net ain't it? This is the same kind of shenanigans that publishers like Facebook, Twitter and Youtube pull. Who deems it harmful, how is it deemed harmful, can the definition of harmful be changed? One day's "Constructive criticism" is another day's "Mental Health Emergency incident" because people are never in the same emotional state day by day, heck, even hour by hour.
I'm also curious, was there a massive inciting incident to this post? I'd like to see what was so egregious it effectively required rewriting how the CM handles the entire community. Just for my own curiosity, or was it Death by a Thousand Cuts?
Their Forum or other Social Media Site, their rules.....you flaunt them, they'll let you know. You don't like it.....don't use their site.....simples!!
Stop it, you're krilling me!
You're such a dhufish!
Are you implying that anyone who has an issue with nebulous definitions in regard to the enforcement of rules inherently intends to break the rules? I just need to know if I'm dealing with someone capable of thinking beyond the binary.
The enterity of the last 50 days
I doubt you'd have any cause to skirt even close to doing something that might be deemed harmful to another person though. Why is it an issue for you? Who is it an issue for? Why is it an issue for them? Are they concerned something they might do might be deemed harmful by accident? How can anyone possibly specifiy the exact definition of all the things we might do that could be deemed harmful or be classified as a personal attack?
I think this issue is being made up on the spot to literally make the point that the definition of what we shouldn't do isn't ultra specific, which it cannot ever be. As if it needs to be when we're talking about being decent human beings who don't personally attack others.
Just don't personally attack someone and you're good. Just like the vast majority of us (including you) have managed to avoid abusing others; with the similarly vague rules of the forum we've lived with for years, we've all gotten by without getting banned temporarily for attacking someone. All the rules say is don't troll, abuse, personally attack someone. You've managed that so far, why has it suddenly become problematic now just because Arf used a different word to describe it?
You know what he means and if it's too vague then err on the side of caution! I seriously doubt you'll ever get into trouble for harming someone simply because you're not that sort of person. So, how does it concern you? And if it does, then there's nothing anyone can do to help you with that. Avoiding being harmful to others is something we all just have to learn as we grow up and it's not Fdev's responsibility to teach that to you. It is their responsibility to ensure no one uses their channels to abuse anyone though.
Last edited:
There's a thing in SS13, actually. A few servers have had this issue.
Because the game is complex enough that there are going to be situations that aren't cut and dry, the admins have explicitly stated when someone started making a big stink about "is X allowed" that it's judged on a case by case basis - because if the admins explicitly say that, say, stealing is permitted when you're not one of the round's antagonists, then certain people will take that as a free licence to go smashing into everyone else's workplaces, loot their stuff, and generally be a massive pain in the rear end, all merrily singing "THE ADMINS SAID I WAS ALLOWED".
And there's always that one guy who asks exactly where the line is purely so they can be the maximum permitted level of jerkass without technically breaking the letter of a rule - they have a name for that, it's called "line-toeing", and they deal with it by explicitly stating that repeatedly skirting right up to the line will be treated the same as crossing it.
And you know there are people in games who will abuse technicalities to be jerks. See the epic ganks in this very game - the PF district was added to specifically stop sealclubbing newbies at the starter systems, and a few people on the epic weekend deliberately found out exactly where the line was where the game would boot you out, and exactly what gear they could smuggle into the zone without gaining ranks, and went in to seal-club.
This ain't some free speech bill of rights movement speaker's corner MUH RIGHTS moment, it's a private establishment. A social one at that. If you harass the staff or the other customers, you'll be given the boot.
Don't try to be a lawyer if you're not in a court of law.
Last edited:
Well I agree but it doesn't change the fact that those people exist and will continue to exist no matter how much you ban them. The reason this level of vitriol exists is because the company has allowed it fester unchecked for years now.
Yeah. It sucks. The community is toxic. I figured that out years ago when my former squadron leader was doxxed by one of the "good guys" because he associated with a ganker. Didn't even do the deed himself.
Hello games is a good example of what I'm talking about. They recieved death threats, harrassment etc from their community at first. After they fixed their games issues they became more open and honest with their players the toxicity vanished. Those people are still there. They always will be but the companies job is satisfy their consumers.
So now were stuck in a situation where after years and years of festering toxicity they finally come out and day yes were going to have more transparency... heres our road map... and it's some like "bug fixes". And now were all sitting around scratching our heads wondering why everyone's ticked off.
Did you miss the bit where I said that's not an argument? It's called anecdotal evidence.
I dont give a damn what you do truth be told. Now why would you say this though? I'm serious. Do you understand that I'm actually not condoning their behavior or are you just looking for a straw man to white knight against?
You haven't gotten a single thing good or bad by being polite or rude to this company. Theres a word for that train of though which you can look up. I choose to be polite to the CMs/mods out of basic decency; but I'll debate with anyone regardless and I dont expect to get anything regardless of how I act.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ok - got it.
So we are not longer allowed to post frustrations anywhere FDev controls - I mean a complaint against the game sometime has nothing to 'critique' you just need to call out the blatent mistake. For example a bug re-introduced at least 5 time over the life of the game (cough cough ammo auto-restock on wake) can't be critiqued more. And someone venting on social media about a very clearly dropped ball, but not calling anyone out specifically could be deemed 'harmful' and result in a perma-ban. Wow. Messaged received crystal clear. I just won't say anything but nice things about the game, that is how I interpret this. (and an honest fear of a ban for a post like this).
So we are not longer allowed to post frustrations anywhere FDev controls - I mean a complaint against the game sometime has nothing to 'critique' you just need to call out the blatent mistake. For example a bug re-introduced at least 5 time over the life of the game (cough cough ammo auto-restock on wake) can't be critiqued more. And someone venting on social media about a very clearly dropped ball, but not calling anyone out specifically could be deemed 'harmful' and result in a perma-ban. Wow. Messaged received crystal clear. I just won't say anything but nice things about the game, that is how I interpret this. (and an honest fear of a ban for a post like this).
Uh oh, the white knight card got played. Game over.
I've spent a lot of the last 6 years saying a lot of critical things about the game here and never got a temporary ban for it. So I guess I didn't abuse anyone when I did it.
Here we go:
I think Engineers in EDH is one of the worst parts of the game, caused huge imbalance issues and ruined the fun of building a class A ship back in the day. It killed PVP, was built with almost no care about the wider impact to the game, is horribly grindy and then wasted a year of Fdev's dev effort to fix and even then it still has huge issues. Shield tanking meta is horrendous, combat is now a bullet sponge hell and I wish Engineers had never been created because it's now forced Fdev down a path they can never recover from, nor build upon. It's massively convoluted, impossible to do without using third party tools and I think the game would be better if it never existed.
Do you think that will even get me an infraction (I mean, it's off topic so sorry for that admins! Just making a point that is on topic)? Do you think I was abusive to someone personally? Do you think I caused someone personal harm?
I think you know the answer and so no, very little of what you said is true.
PS your post wasn't abusive, harmful to anyone nor was it a personal attack. So no, you won't get even an infraction for it either. I think you've literally proved yourself wrong
I've spent a lot of the last 6 years saying a lot of critical things about the game here and never got a temporary ban for it. So I guess I didn't abuse anyone when I did it.
Here we go:
I think Engineers in EDH is one of the worst parts of the game, caused huge imbalance issues and ruined the fun of building a class A ship back in the day. It killed PVP, was built with almost no care about the wider impact to the game, is horribly grindy and then wasted a year of Fdev's dev effort to fix and even then it still has huge issues. Shield tanking meta is horrendous, combat is now a bullet sponge hell and I wish Engineers had never been created because it's now forced Fdev down a path they can never recover from, nor build upon. It's massively convoluted, impossible to do without using third party tools and I think the game would be better if it never existed.
Do you think that will even get me an infraction (I mean, it's off topic so sorry for that admins! Just making a point that is on topic)? Do you think I was abusive to someone personally? Do you think I caused someone personal harm?
I think you know the answer and so no, very little of what you said is true.
PS your post wasn't abusive, harmful to anyone nor was it a personal attack. So no, you won't get even an infraction for it either. I think you've literally proved yourself wrong
Last edited:
![[xtc]mrsly](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/198/198705.jpg?1586450506){kind=avatar}
baRe in mind he's tasted the potatoes too, AND he probably knew to put lots of salt on them before eating,
Someone stating that they won't tolerate personal abuse is just manipulating you?
I think Fdev misled players about the fact that the game was more likely a Beta after people payed for it. There i said it and i did not invoke insults, harassment, personal attacks, slurs, un substantiated comments, pre suppositions and of course Hitler.
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
No, you obviously didn't get it.
Critique all you want. Call out the company, fine.
Target an individual dev or group of devs with abuse and you're gone.
Simple.
![[Diplomacy] Carnegie](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/123/123809.jpg?1553527149){kind=avatar}
Complaining about the game is not 'abuse'. It wasn't before and it isn't now.
Their post actually proves itself wrong
"So I'm not allowed to criticise the game or I get banned? Got it!"
Says something critical of the game. Isn't banned.
Hopefully they do understand it now, though! Not wishing to be too sarcastic but I think that everyone who is fearful that they might accidentally abuse someone personally has learned from this thread that it's possible to do a whole bunch of arguing without resorting to that.
- Status