Realizing the Elite Dangerous is an MMO (whether you like it or not)

Elite Dangerous is an MMO. I know, a lot of people do not like that idea, but it is a Massively Multiplayer Online game whether we pretend it isn't or not (even if you play Solo you cannot escape most aspects of it). The challenges, and to be honest, some of the mistakes made, have been classical of MMOs (faction issues, mission troubles, no "high level" content etc). I am not entirely convinced that FD sees ED as an MMO, and therefore reinvents the wheel unnecessarily. I hope at least a couple of designers on the FD team have MMO experience, or I fear we will struggle with mission and faction issues for longer than necessary.


To take a classical example of the last (no high level content): some of the most enthusiastic players are now "rich". They have Anacondas and Pythons (me and my friends all have Anacondas), but there is no content yet for any player with Cr100m or more in total assets. With no content I meant that there are no missions that are worth the fuel expense and no NPC targets that are neither challenging nor offer rewards worth the time. The only thing we can do is trade or explore, but it starts getting rather repetitive (anyone having traded their way to an Anaconda has seen everything there is to see with regards to trading a long time ago, for example).


This matters, because the most enthusiastic players are very valuable to any MMO, and to have no content for them is risky for ED and FD. I'm sure FD will get around to this eventually, and I for one make no threats of leaving. I'm just a bit concerned that FD seems surprised that this happens. If you had a team with people experienced with MMOs, they could have told you that from the start. It is the kind of issue that early MMOs used to suffer from, but fortunately not so much anymore, as developers have caught on to the issue. Keeping your most enthusiastic players happy is very good for business, as they are vocal supporters and great advertising for the game.


The same goes for creating that sense of loyalty to a faction, or emotional attachment to missions or places. Currently everything is very cold and impersonal. Even the old Elite games had talking heads or something that made interacting with faction a or station x feel different from faction b or station y. Having a massively huge galaxy is cool. Having a massively huge galaxy that makes you feel that you are the only living being in it feels a bit depressing after a while. I don't think it takes all that much to alleviate some of these issues, and I don't pretend to have all the answers, but unless the game is treated by FD as the MMO it is, there is a risk of repeating a lot of the mistakes in early MMOs that ought to be extinct. I personally think ED is awesomeness waiting to happen, and naively optimistic that I am, I would love to hear some thoughts from the devs. Or given that the chances of that being slim considering they are busy people, what do you think? I'd especially love to hear from anyone with experience from other MMOs - do you see things that could easily be transferred to ED from other MMOs to make ED better or fix current issues?



UPDATE: The point about this post was to encourage looking at ED as an MMO to see what could be learned from that, in order to improve the game. It did however turn into a bit of a "no it isn't!"/"yes it is too!" argument, which is entirely my fault - sorry! But let's not get hung up on that, but rather ask what we can learn from MMOs, no matter how we categorize ED. I believe other games have done great work, and maybe, just maybe, some of that could be applied to ED as well.
 
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I know it's radical and no-one's though of it before, but why don't we import some end game raids and bosses from WoW and some player controlled stuff from EVE? We could then have some stuff for all of those Anaconda drivers to do whilst they wait for us to level up to 100.

There needs to be some player controlled stations for my guild to live in, between raids so we can equip our new l33t drops on our blinged out Anacondas.

Also, pets. I need some plushy to sit in the co-pilots seat of my Adder when I'm stooging around the galaxy. So, pets, for sure.
 
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Elite Dangerous is an MMO.

Yeah but its a strange one, in that its an MMO without the monthly subs,
Great in principle, but FD's motivation has to be get new players in all the time because the existing players are not a revenue stream (in fact existing players potentially cost FD money if they keep em).

bit like a ponzi scheme, without new players it'll all start to collapse.

you could argue DLC is the way forward, but personally I'm not sure what type of DLC I would pay for, wheres the line of what should have been in in the release 1.0, and what should be in a DLC.
 
Yeah can't wait for the guild wars, up to a maximum of 32 players - Well 16 per guild, that would be massive.

Then when we get FPS we could have a 3rd Perspective and run round stations collecting missions and power ups!

Also we would need leaders - for each Guild so they feel important.

Also buy planets and stations.....

Hang on... I think you may be wrong, there are no MMO type options in the game...
 
Elite Dangerous is an MMO. I know, a lot of people do not like that idea, but it is a Massively Multiplayer Online game whether we pretend it isn't or not (even if you play Solo you cannot escape most aspects of it). The challenges, and to be honest, some of the mistakes made, have been classical of MMOs (faction issues, mission troubles, no "high level" content etc). I am not entirely convinced that FD sees ED as an MMO, and therefore reinvents the wheel unnecessarily. I hope at least a couple of designers on the FD team have MMO experience, or I fear we will struggle with mission and faction issues for longer than necessary.


To take a classical example of the last (no high level content): some of the most enthusiastic players are now "rich". They have Anacondas and Pythons (me and my friends all have Anacondas), but there is no content yet for any player with Cr100m or more in total assets. With no content I meant that there are no missions that are worth the fuel expense and no NPC targets that are neither challenging nor offer rewards worth the time. The only thing we can do is trade or explore, but it starts getting rather repetitive (anyone having traded their way to an Anaconda has seen everything there is to see with regards to trading a long time ago, for example).


This matters, because the most enthusiastic players are very valuable to any MMO, and to have no content for them is risky for ED and FD. I'm sure FD will get around to this eventually, and I for one make no threats of leaving. I'm just a bit concerned that FD seems surprised that this happens. If you had a team with people experienced with MMOs, they could have told you that from the start. It is the kind of issue that early MMOs used to suffer from, but fortunately not so much anymore, as developers have caught on to the issue. Keeping your most enthusiastic players happy is very good for business, as they are vocal supporters and great advertising for the game.


The same goes for creating that sense of loyalty to a faction, or emotional attachment to missions or places. Currently everything is very cold and impersonal. Even the old Elite games had talking heads or something that made interacting with faction a or station x feel different from faction b or station y. Having a massively huge galaxy is cool. Having a massively huge galaxy that makes you feel that you are the only living being in it feels a bit depressing after a while. I don't think it takes all that much to alleviate some of these issues, and I don't pretend to have all the answers, but unless the game is treated by FD as the MMO it is, there is a risk of repeating a lot of the mistakes in early MMOs that ought to be extinct. I personally think ED is awesomeness waiting to happen, and naively optimistic that I am, I would love to hear some thoughts from the devs. Or given that the chances of that being slim considering they are busy people, what do you think? I'd especially love to hear from anyone with experience from other MMOs - do you see things that could easily be transferred to ED from other MMOs to make ED better or fix current issues?

So you give yourself importance over others because you rush through a game instead of play it and enjoy it and now feel entitled(used correctly for once) to ask for more content? No.
 
To take a classical example of the last (no high level content): some of the most enthusiastic players are now "rich". They have Anacondas and Pythons (me and my friends all have Anacondas), but there is no content yet for any player with Cr100m
That's because when you develop content (especially when a game is in the barely post-release phase) you develop it for the majority of players and not for the few that have had time to rush to max credits (one way or another).

The aim of a video game, in case people forget, is to get many people to play and earn income.

So at this stage it's much more worthwhile in terms of developer resources (and income) to add content that gets 10 new players into the game - even if it means losing one 'old' player - instead of wasting time making that one player happy while the 10 other gamers don't purchase the game.

This changes when the game has been around for a few years (see for example WoW, where all the new stuff after a while went into the level cap extensions). So I'm not too surprised that content for 'high level players' isn't top priority right now.
 
ED is not an mmo.

Instances maximum number of players is 32, and that leaves ED far away from being categorised as a MMO.

Yes, it has a persistence universe, but just that isn't enough to make it a mmo, you need a gameworld server which is able to support dozens of players, not only just a handful.

ED, just like many other games is simply an 'online game', nothing more, nothing less.
 
I think we should perhaps not confuse MMOs and MMORPGs here. I'm not arguing that ED is to become "Everquest in the Sky" or anything. I'm just pointing out that many of the challenges are the same, and some of the mistakes made are very similar to the ones done in early MMOs (I wasted a LOT of my life in Everquest a long long time ago). Community goals is a classical MMO mechanism. So are the quests (we have "fetch quests", "kill quests" - all the classical old MMO categories, so will Wings be (I presume) and so is pretty much anything happening in ED. If we get player trading (between players), we will get inflation (and I'm willing to bet FD will be surprised/shocked when that happens).

I realize Nutter is being ironic, but he's not far off what FD has said that they will do already. And for FD to keep people interested after everyone and their mother has an Anaconda and five Pythons, they need to constantly come up with things to spend money on. FD has said no player controlled capital ships, so my money is on player (wings/guilds/call it what you like) stations in the future. Laugh now and get quoted later! :p

The things is - I think ED being an MMO is good thing - we just shouldn't pretend otherwise. And we should learn from other MMOs: copy what works avoid the garbage.


PS: 32 is a lot more that some early MMOs could handle - it's not about the number. And that number might go up a LOT in the future.
 
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FD basically made a mistake when it came to pacing for this game (something that a lot of new mmo devs do - I'm looking at you SWTOR) where they release their game with a decent amount of content but don't anticipate the speed at which players get through it. Now they are in a situation where players are demanding more content at a rate faster than they can produce while keeping up their quality control. What this means is that they either have to speed up production at the cost of quality or risk losing players who get bored with what is already released. Either way it's a really hard decision to make, made even more difficult by the fact that they are a smaller company without the means fast growth of their company and game.

This whole thing is made worse by the players who (for the most part) clearly have never played a true sandbox mmo before and don't know how to make their own fun without having their progress dictated to them by the system.
 
HURR DURR ELITE IS MMO
An MMO without basic group functionality or content.
An MMO with an abysmal communication system.

You can keep splurging and faffing on about what you don't know. Those of us with clockwork working upstairs know what an MMO is.
 
ED is not an mmo.

Instances maximum number of players is 32, and that leaves ED far away from being categorised as a MMO.

Yes, it has a persistence universe, but just that isn't enough to make it a mmo, you need a gameworld server which is able to support dozens of players, not only just a handful.

ED, just like many other games is simply an 'online game', nothing more, nothing less.


The original Guildwars had instances that only had a maximum of about 30, yet was an mmo.
 
By definition, yes it is.
Its massive, its multiplayer and its online.


You also shoot things from a first person perspective. Elite is an FPS.
You also point your ship and click on menus while going on adventures. Elite is a point and click adventure game.

I could go on, but yeah. If you think Elite is an mmo, you don't understand the term at all. Massively multiplayer is a singular term. Not massive and multiplayer. That's just stupid.
 
I don't think there's any need to rush new content because some people rushed through what was there. ED is not a game with any "end-goal" as such, and in other MMO's, all the catering to the handful of "top-dog dictators" only frustrates the players who prefer to take the game at its intended pace. Yes, these little dictators do have a way too big influence on games, with their demands regarding how the game should be played, how things should be balanced. They are the major minority segment a developer is wise to ignore.
 
You also shoot things from a first person perspective. Elite is an FPS.
You also point your ship and click on menus while going on adventures. Elite is a point and click adventure game.

I could go on, but yeah. If you think Elite is an mmo, you don't understand the term at all. Massively multiplayer is a singular term. Not massive and multiplayer. That's just stupid.

If you think ED is not an MMO you must be able to define what makes a game an MMO.

What makes a game an MMO?
 
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what makes a game an MMO?

When it's massively multiplayer, as in a very large number of people could interact in the same game. This is not possible in elite.

Again, "massively multiplayer" is a singular term. Games that have big worlds and are multiplayer are not automatically mmos. It's quite ridiculous to insist they are to be honest.

If Call of Duty had huge maps, would it suddenly become an mmo? Of course not.
 
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