Really Frontier?

[evanevery]

it wasn't meant as personal attack, I hope I did made that clear... and I'm 47, so I'm some old too. (Commodore isn't something I don't know either... since 1983...)

Well, I've got more than 10 years on you.... Back in my day we didn't even have 1's and 0's, we had to use the letter "l".... ;-)

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For what it's worth, I'm totally with FD on this one. Rewards should be based on rank whether it's in Multicrew or Wings. Damn straight !

In fact Mission rewards should be scaled on rank too. Maybe one day.

I'm pretty sure mission rewards DO scale with rank...

Cargo missions scale with trade rank... Combat missions scale with combat rank... etc...

 

[Gunnet]

Why do you think new players should be REQUIRED to go out and "learn to fly properly"? Why can't they just be happy being a "gunner" or "weapons officer"? Not everyone in the Navy can "drive" a ship...

Because flying is what the entire game is built around. People in the navy aren't going to go and command or helm a warship in combat during their leave either. I actually like the idea of players who are so inclined being able to make a career out of being a science weapons officer aboard somebody else's ship. But unfortunately the throwaway, telepresenced nature of multicrew means that there just isn't an entire game contained in being a crew member rather than a captain.

Unrestricted credit and rank gain from multicrew would be "second week Anaconda" turned up to eleven. It would be X week Anaconda flown by somebody who has barely undocked from a station before and has the combat rank to see things like deadly FDLs coming after them.

A hypothetical player who played purely in multicrew and was never going to buy their own ship would have no use for credits anyway.

 

[evanevery]

Because flying is what the entire game is built around. People in the navy aren't going to go and command or helm a warship in combat during their leave either. I actually like the idea of players who are so inclined being able to make a career out of being a science weapons officer aboard somebody else's ship. But unfortunately the throwaway, telepresenced nature of multicrew means that there just isn't an entire game contained in being a crew member rather than a captain.

Unrestricted credit and rank gain from multicrew would be "second week Anaconda" turned up to eleven. It would be X week Anaconda flown by somebody who has barely undocked from a station before and has the combat rank to see things like deadly FDLs coming after them.

A hypothetical player who played purely in multicrew and was never going to buy their own ship would have no use for credits anyway.

Ummm... Apparently NOT!

Sounds more like your upset that the whole game ISN'T "built around flying"!

 

[Gunnet]

Ummm... Apparently NOT!

Sounds more like your upset that the whole game ISN'T "built around flying"!

Apparently not what? 99% of the game isn't built around flying your own ship? Players who have never undocked before will be fine against deadly FDLs? All navy personnel operate their own private warships on the side?

There's no two ways about it. If a new player only plays multicrew and never buys their own ship, credits are irrelevant. If a new player only plays multicrew but eventually buys their own ship, letting them jump straight into a large ship and face high rank NPCs with absolutely no experience would be the game doing them a massive disservice.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

I like the nerf.

In real life newbies get less wages until they earn their way up.

Freeloading from experianced players will not help them level up and learn how to play the game from the ground up.

 

[Stealthie]

Why do you care? If someone wants to play as a "Gunner" and doesn't want to be a pilot, does that diminish YOUR experience? Whats it to you?

This always strikes me as a rather specious argument.

What's it to me?

Well, if somebody rocks up into the game and has the means to accrue large sums of money quickly, chances are they're not going to have the same investment in their progress that I have.

Such people are more likely to act rashly because they can just hop back into their buddy's Corvette and make enough money to buy themselves another Fer de lance to go and act like a tool in.

And I don't want those people screwing up my game.

 

[AkimuMC]

This always strikes me as a rather specious argument.

What's it to me?

Well, if somebody rocks up into the game and has the means to accrue large sums of money quickly, chances are they're not going to have the same investment in their progress that I have.

Such people are more likely to act rashly because they can just hop back into their buddy's Corvette and make enough money to buy themselves another Fer de lance to go and act like a tool in.

And I don't want those people screwing up my game.

I remember when I was younger and wanted information I would have to go to a library. They had huge cabinets that they used to index all of the information they had. Even to use the index I had to be taught it. Then, once I found a book that may, or may not contain what I am looking for, I had to hope it had an index or table of contents. I have literally read entire books that did not include the one fact I was looking for...

Dang kids and their Google... always arguing things because they can quickly get on their buddies smart phone and pull up years of research on literally any subject...

They don't have the same investment in their knowledge as me... And look at them all screwing up the world I live in...

/sarcasm

I understand your point, but your point is exceedingly selfish and has a ton of "what if" included... In any regard FD will do what FD does.

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oh I do care, so should you!
Sadly we don't have many meat on our space opera bones, don't perforate the flimsy meat we do have.
If even noobs - and with noobs I mean newbies that are in with only a few hours - can get to the - so called - end game stuff i.e. ships..... what's left?
Right! There IS NO ENDGAME (ships or whatever). Right.
But anybody needs to learn this first, and noobs won't acknoledge to that trueness at the beginning, because all they see is the mighty Anaconda, not to mention the uber-Corvette!

You're one of the Noobs? (Again, it's meant in ingame-time, not skill or behavior or whatever else, it's not meant as personal, please)

The sooner the Noobs will get to Richness, the sooner they get that's nothing left to do, so the sooner they will leave the game.
This is one of the seldom games, where the "journey is the reward"!
If you cut the journey, there's not much left...



right!

A lot of people play games with cheat codes too... Doesn't diminish my experience any. Maybe it doesn't diminish theirs either? I don't know, to each their own. If it does pull back some huge miraculous curtain to expose ED for what it really is (and who are we kidding? I am 2000 hours in and still playing) does that mean they will walk away? And so what if they do? It isn't like open is required, so what does it matter how many people are playing or not? Or what they take away from their own personal journey?

Nobody can decide what any individuals journey is other than the individual.

 

[Stealthie]

I remember when I was younger and wanted information I would have to go to a library. They had huge cabinets that they used to index all of the information they had. Even to use the index I had to be taught it. Then, once I found a book that may, or may not contain what I am looking for, I had to hope it had an index or table of contents. I have literally read entire books that did not include the one fact I was looking for...

Dang kids and their Google... always arguing things because they can quickly get on their buddies smart phone and pull up years of research on literally any subject...

They don't have the same investment in their knowledge as me... And look at them all screwing up the world I live in...

/sarcasm

I understand your point, but your point is exceedingly selfish and has a ton of "what if" included... In any regard FD will do what FD does.

I don't really accept your analogy, but let's consider it anyway....

It doesn't really matter to me whether people get their information from books or from the internet.
It really SHOULD matter to the people, themselves, though because books tend to contain information which has been verified as factually accurate and is likely to have undergone the process of peer-review.
As opposed to information from the internet which may have been written by a lunatic.

What WOULD matter greatly to me, however, would be if somebody decided that you could gain a qualification as a result of being able to google things rather than having actually LEARNED those things.
That would matter because a person who has learned something is likely to understand the reasons why that thing is so and understand the consequences of getting that thing wrong.
A person who just googles information has no way of knowing if that information is reliable, has no understanding of the processes that led to the discovery of that information, no understanding of the correct application of that information and no understanding of the consequences if that information is improperly used.

It's not selfish to be concerned that people with no understanding of a thing have access to it.
It's a concern for the welfare of an entire society resulting from the arrival of a bunch of people with no understanding of how that thing works.

Take as many inferences from that as you like.


Oh, and just to put the cherry on top, I bet half the current bleating about multicrew is coming from people who were hoping to earn real cash by letting people multicrew aboard their ships while they farm CZs.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I am looking at the incentives... If we can't gain power play merits, we can't run SRV's, we cannot complete missions... What is left? Bounties, CZ's, and Trade dividends (which I am unsure of how that is currently implemented.. I am not in Beta...) So, what incentive does one have to join another ship? Player interaction? To be fair, a ton of folks just do not care to interact. I send greetings to every CMDR I pass. I get replies 1 out of 10 times. Look at all the solo vs. open threads...

I am just saying, the credits were a nice boost to "coerce" folks into using the feature. Without it... I don't know.

Don't get me wrong, I am stoked. I am going to use it. I also have enough credits to do mostly as I wish, but I do not represent the majority of the player base.

In beta mc leads to a rapidly growing friendlist and tons of fun interaction.

 

[Devari]

So they should remove all combat rewards for all big 3 ships? As there is no risk at all if you fly anaconda, cutter or corvette. Those ships are so OP in pve that you pretty much need to cause your own death to die in those ships.

I play in Open exclusively so I also have to deal with other CMDRs, and they don't fight fair or act in predictable ways. They interdict you in wings, troll you with a sidewinder if you exceed 100 m/s around stations and generally do everything they can to destroy you by finding the most imbalanced situations possible to engage you. If you play in Solo or Mobius, sure, then you have a pretty good sense of what the risks are in most situations but that's not always the case in Open.

My anaconda doesn't have weapon or shield modifications at all, carry 128 tons of cargo and 3 size 5 passenger cabins, srv, fighter bay at same time and i can survive everything i see in pve.

There are MANY situations where a large ship can be overwhlemed in PVE, such as from sudden NPC groups spawning in a CZ or accidentally hitting a clean NPC while surrounded by cops in a HazRES. Those situations can certainly overwhelm a large ship before it can get to safety and your non-Engineered Conda is nowhere near immune to that. Even my heavily Engineered ships can sometimes be destroyed in those situations. I lost a Python recently in a CZ when I ended up the middle of a group of NPCs as they all spawned around me and immediately focused fire on my ship. There are still ways to die in PVE situations even with a powerful Engineered ship.

In big 3 there is no risk to take part to pve combat, so there can't be less risk if you happen to be in someone else ship.

How exactly is a 20 mil rebuy in an Anaconda or a 30 mil reuby in an Corvette somehow considered "no risk"? It's actually one of the few limiting aspects of the large ships. Like I said above, if you play in Open then there is always the potential for another CMDR to troll or grief you with the latest OP PVP build or game bug and even in PVE there are situations where your ship might be overwhelmed.

MC is boring enough so most will not use it even if everyone get 100% of bounty from each kill (bounty is 3x every time).

The issue here is that sitting afk at a turret is a game activity that is should never have even been suggested as being worth getting a full 100% bounty payout.

Many players were clearly so fixated on the potential to farm easy afk credits for an alt that they somehow concluded that they are actually entitled to such ludicrous payouts for basically doing nothing and taking zero risk. Fortunately FD has taken steps to keep this in check although I'm surprized they actually had to "beta test" a feature that would have obviously been used as a massive credit farming exploit if it actually made it to the live launch of 2.3.

I'm glad you're not a designer on Elite dangerous

"Before you are actually allowed to play the game you need to spend 1000 hours in the training scenarios", only then will the pilots federation give you your free sidewinder and 1000 credits

That is literally how you sound

Edit: I'm just pulling your leg, because you are arguing your own Donald Trump "MAKE COMBAT RANK GREAT AGAIN" schpeel while I'm arguing the point that Frontier made

First, I'm pledged to Li Yong-Rui and so I'm clearly interested in security and prosperity through cooperative means. If I were a supporter of Space Trump I would have pledged for Hudson.

Second, techincally, Shinrarta Dezhra already DOES have a space wall around it in the form of a permit lock on the system until you're Elite in at least one area. So the concepts I'm describing are already in the game, FD is just extending the usefulness of combat ranking.

The point about not letting "New players" who have just purchased the game, bypass the games initial progression....

What you're missing is that progression is different for each of the three main areas, Combat, Trading and Exploration. Ranking up in Trading or Exploration says nothing about your abilities or experience in combat.

 

[Cageman]

The change is good. Would love to see more things in the game respecting the rank (higher rank = more money).

 

[AkimuMC]

I don't really accept your analogy, but let's consider it anyway....

It doesn't really matter to me whether people get their information from books or from the internet.
It really SHOULD matter to the people, themselves, though because books tend to contain information which has been verified as factually accurate and is likely to have undergone the process of peer-review.
As opposed to information from the internet which may have been written by a lunatic.

What WOULD matter greatly to me, however, would be if somebody decided that you could gain a qualification as a result of being able to google things rather than having actually LEARNED those things.
That would matter because a person who has learned something is likely to understand the reasons why that thing is so and understand the consequences of getting that thing wrong.
A person who just googles information has no way of knowing if that information is reliable, has no understanding of the processes that led to the discovery of that information, no understanding of the correct application of that information and no understanding of the consequences if that information is improperly used.

It's not selfish to be concerned that people with no understanding of a thing have access to it.
It's a concern for the welfare of an entire society resulting from the arrival of a bunch of people with no understanding of how that thing works.

Take as many inferences from that as you like.


Oh, and just to put the cherry on top, I bet half the current bleating about multicrew is coming from people who were hoping to earn real cash by letting people multicrew aboard their ships while they farm CZs.

Meh... I am just not concerned about the credits... It isn't like Sothis wasn't a thing... Or huge payout passengers. Really, what is this updates flavor for fast credits?

Books can be written by lunatics as well, not just internet dribble. But I think you missed my point. Just because someone has it "easier" doesn't mean that they should be punished because your journey was tougher. That is a pretty smug point of view in my opinion. It is the age old "back in my day..." philosophy. Regardless of what analogy you want to use, nobody is walking uphill both ways, barefoot, and in 6 feet of snow. This is just a game. I have 1 billion or so credits, took me almost 2 years (about 2000 hours) to get that along with ranks. Some did it faster than me. Some will do it slower. How does it change any of that if someone buys the game and gets a billion credits in a month? I still have my credits. I still have my rank... So...??? I am just failing to see what it matters how many credits people gain. The only thing I can interpret is the "I didn't get it that fast, so it isn't fair".

So what?

People everywhere have no understandings of things and yet have access to them. You don't have to show a drivers license to buy a car. You don't have to prove you were trained to buy a gun (at least not in most states -America) Yet, the world still functions fairly normally. It is a selfish view. Are you concerned for me and my experience because someone with 10 hours has an Anaconda? Lol... What are they going to do with it? They don't t know how to fly, so what is the concern? Ship crashes? Lol...

Also to add here, how many new players are showing up every day vs. players that have been here awhile? I would be willing to bet most MC gunners and fighter pilots will be experienced to some degree. So why are you so concerned about a small minority of players?

I was hoping to do a lot with MC. CZs being one of those things... And as our options are somewhat limited... And to shame folks for wanting to gain credits here is silly. So what? If some CMDR wants to just sit in a CZ and farm credits, again I have to ask: so what? How does that change my game? Or your game?

Because PvP CMDRs will have a bunch of big easy targets? That is noble of you to concern yourself with the well-being of fresh CMDRs in Condas getting jumped... But you have said you want them to learn, and I am willing to bet they will one way or another.

Or is it truly just the "back in my day..."?

Let's just play the game and enjoy while others enjoy it as well. FD writes the rules, so whichever way they decide to go, keep enjoying your game like I will mine regardless of how others play...

 

[CMDR Rusty Dog]

I'm pretty sure mission rewards DO scale with rank...

Cargo missions scale with trade rank... Combat missions scale with combat rank... etc...

Right now I'm Deadly / Elite / Pioneer in my rankings. I expect to be paid for missions higher than I would if I was 2-3 ranks lower in each category.
Perhaps that is the case to some extent but I look at the mission board now and with 1bn CR to my name (not earned the quick way, I've been at this since Day 1), I don't see anything worth my time or effort. Being asked to find 42 Progenitor cells for 50,000CR is nothing to me.

I'm not saying the mission board should factor in your wealth but it perhaps the scaling should be broader than it is now.

 

[Stealthie]

Meh... I am just not concerned about the credits... It isn't like Sothis wasn't a thing... Or huge payout passengers. Really, what is this updates flavor for fast credits?

"They've ruined multicrew by reducing the payments.... I'm not concerned about the payments"

It is the age old "back in my day..." philosophy.

No, it isn't that at all.

What you've just done is called creating a strawman argument. it's what people do when they can't respond to the ACTUAL issue that is being discussed.

And you just wrote a whole heap of words that have absolutely NOTHING to do with anything I said.

It's not selfish to be concerned that people with no understanding of a thing have access to it.
It's a concern for the welfare of an entire society resulting from the arrival of a bunch of people with no understanding of how that thing works.

 

[AkimuMC]

"They've ruined multicrew by reducing the payments.... I'm not concerned about the payments"




No, it isn't that at all.

What you've just done is called creating a strawman argument. it's what people do when they can't respond to the ACTUAL issue that is being discussed.

And you just wrote a whole heap of words that have absolutely NOTHING to do with anything I said.

I concede I made some assumptions about your point of view. However, you are also making an assumption that an entire gaming society will collapse because of higher payouts...

Which view is more absurd?

 

[Stealthie]

I concede I made some assumptions about your point of view. However, you are also making an assumption that an entire gaming society will collapse because of higher payouts...

Which view is more absurd?

You're still doing the strawman thing.

The original question was how somebody earning large rewards for multicrew play affects other people.

I offered an example of how it can affect other people.

As I also said, it's not selfish to be concerned that some of the people who have easy access to large amounts of money will use it to act like tools.

 

[AkimuMC]

You're still doing the strawman thing.

The original question was how somebody earning large rewards for multicrew play affects other people.

I offered an example of how it can affect other people.

As I also said, it's not selfish to be concerned that some of the people who have easy access to large amounts of money will use it to act like tools.

You watch told much cable news... I am talking about the same exact thing you are in a way you disagree with.

Are there not tools now? Do you think 2.3 is going to flood the galaxy with new tools? I don't.

Not to mention there is absolutely zero need to interact with any other human player in this game.

Oh, and the multicrew feature is a mechanic you can use too. Or are you on the moral high ground of "I have never been to Sothis?"

So, how would my wife for example, ruin your game or any others game if she multicrew with me and gets fat stacks of credits? Lol... She just wants to play. Do you think she is in the minority of people using MC? Because only tools will... Right...

And this whole time you keep saying "I", "my", "me"... I haven't seen one concern for anyone else.

Besides, the whole topic is moot anyway. You aren't an FD employee. I am not an FD employees. So, we get what they give.

My only concern, as I have mentioned, is if the feature will be utilized and further produced. If nobody uses it... Well, what a waste...