Reduce the grind

[CMDR Big Mike]

Just because engineering was made better, does not mean there is no longer room for improvement. I think it is still a headache and at a minimum the amount of materials should be reduced

 

[Havvk]

SC has an utter garbage flight model. If you think its good, good luck playing that pile of turd.
I don't care about the SC flight model, hence why I wasn't complaining about the comparison between Elite and SC about this.

What are you talking about.
If you can't read, I'm not responsible.

While I wouldn't mind some customisation none of that stops it or makes it a simulation.
Immersion goes a long way sometimes, my friend. If I can star trek beam around in an instant(i.e. telepresence in this game) then how the f** is other sci-fi tech considered "non-canon" or "doesn't exist in the lore"? Such as artificial grav, and other things just to bring up an obvious point.

Boo hoo, I am so upset. That is minor stuff that doesn't bother me in the slightest and neither should it bother anyone else.
Again, immersion goes a long way. It's fine that it's a video game, no duh it's obvious that it is. But come on, the only """""""dEpTh"""""" we ever got was galnet. Please don't make me bring up the Gan Romero thing.

I like the orange. Tried other colours, always go back to it.
Well, it's not so much the color as it is the fact that there is literally no distinction of cockpit variation. I can't even tell if I'm in a sidewinder or a cutter unless I look around and go "oh"
I think you need to get a grip. Yes SC has loads of different stuff, but the gameplay is turd, the flight model is turd, the first person perspective gameplay is turd. Basically the game is currently turd and doesn't in my view hold a candle to ED. Now it may well be better when/if it gets released. But to be honest I don't think its getting released anytime soon.
If Warframe is getting space legs before an actual space ship game, then that should tell you something.
Also none of the stuff you have written makes it a simulation game. Look up the meaning of the phrase, it may help.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_video_game here

Anyway, let's conclude this convo. I don't want to derail any further than I did.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Suspect what you want, automation or not, it's still simple button pressing to fly... It's arcade, indeed I know the definition pretty well...

Just like any other game ever played. If button pressing makes it arcade, well you can fly simulations with just button pressing, so that must make those "arcade" too.

Ever heard about Rogue System? This is the closest of a simulation I can think of...

As I or anyone else has no idea what space flight will be like in the far future, its very difficult to tell. I do know about rogue systems, but it look incredibly tedious to me. Not what I would call compelling.

You are not really up to date with Star citizen then... So it was not a joke but you taking as it is not really that important.

Yes I am up to date. The "new" flight model is still utter garbage. It's better then it was before, but that isn't saying much.

Yes, as much as the grind that you find engaging being to me a huge borefest...

I don't find any grind engaging, that is why I don't engage with it.

Don't come again with the choice, I've read it all here and you repeated it about like 7 times or more... I got you... But you know what? My choice is to be fully engineered to explode everything easily (kid enough?) so I have to grind

And that is your choice. I choose to play in a way that pleases me.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I don't care about the SC flight model, hence why I wasn't complaining about the comparison between Elite and SC about this.

Then why quote that part of my post?

If you can't read, I'm not responsible.

Oh, I can read, but it helps that what I am reading actually makes some kind of sense.

Immersion goes a long way sometimes, my friend. If I can star trek beam around in an instant(i.e. telepresence in this game) then how the f** is other sci-fi tech considered "non-canon" or "doesn't exist in the lore"? Such as artificial grav, and other things just to bring up an obvious point.

And how you get and what immerses you is very subjective. I personally hate the galaxy wide telepresence crap in ED as well, so I ignore it and don't use it apart from the SLF which I can live with as it is very short range. As to the rest, ask FDev. I don't know. To be honest I like the idea of no artificial gravity.

If Warframe is getting space legs before an actual space ship game, then that should tell you something.

It tells me nothing. Warframe has well over 200 people working on the game. ED has only 100 odd.

Well, it's not so much the color as it is the fact that there is literally no distinction of cockpit variation. I can't even tell if I'm in a sidewinder or a cutter unless I look around and go "oh"

I can tell pretty instantly, but as I play in VR that probably helps a bit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_video_game here

Thanks. I never once said that ED was a simulation game. I call it a Galaxy sim with a game attached to and for me a pretty good one at that. Yes it has some issues and is far from perfect, still one of the best games I have played.

Anyway, let's conclude this convo. I don't want to derail any further than I did.

Agreed.

 

[Havvk]

I can tell pretty instantly, but as I play in VR that probably helps a bit.

Nobody should have to spend an additional $300-$700 just to be able to tell that a Corvette is actually bigger than a football field. As it is now, especially its handling, it feels like I'm flying a space fiat or mini cooper, not an actual irl aircraft carrier-sized space ship

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Can everyone please stop arguing about off-topic? Let's talk about grind in ED and how to improve it. Reference to other games are always welcome as a comparison to improve the current grind state.
Thanks

I really wouldn't know how to improve the grind situation. If you add more variations, I don't think that will help either as people will just do the easiest and fastest way no matter what to get all the mats in one go, and then complain about the grind.

I would love more variations on how to get things as I would likely use them all, but I know others will not.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Nobody should have to spend an additional $300-$700 just to be able to tell that a Corvette is actually bigger than a football field. As it is now, especially its handling, it feels like I'm flying a space fiat or mini cooper, not an actual irl aircraft carrier-sized space ship

Thats one of the reasons why I don't fly those ships. I never said the ED flight model was perfect, it's mainly good and fun but far from perfect, the big ships should take much longer to turn even with better engineered thrusters.

 

[Helgarth]

You see, this is the reason why I hate hearing people complain about a game they never cared about in the first place. Stop complaining about "travel time" until you've actually done the Hutton run, been to Colonia, Sag A*, Beagle Point, the FRitft and the like. Putting around the bubble is nothing but the equivalent of walking next door, or at worst, taking a walk down the street.

It's not because you have a mind masochist enough to do that, that everyone has! ☺

I did the Hutton orbital tho... Was watching Netflix.. What a game!! Had so much fun watching the big bang theory at that time!

Oh! By the way! So we need to actually do something so much to be able to complain about it? I don't like vegetables, I don't need to eat 10 tons of them to say that I don't like it... Same as the "j" pressing in elite my dear ☺

No need to consider yourself elitist I just don't like it ❤

Good thing that you are reading me instead of hearing me then! I'm a vindicative guy, would probably get your nerves on good test

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

It's not because you have a mind masochist enough to do that, that everyone has! ☺

I did the Hutton orbital tho... Was watching Netflix.. What a game!! Had so much fun watching the big bang theory at that time!

Oh! By the way! So we need to actually do something so much to be able to complain about it? I don't like vegetables, I don't need to eat 10 tons of them to say that I don't like it... Same as the "j" pressing in elite my dear ☺

No need to consider yourself elitist I just don't like it ❤

Good thing that you are reading me instead of hearing me then! I'm a vindicative guy, would probably get your nerves on good test

I do not really see an issue with the travel. I think SC acceleration could be buffed, but that is it. Jumping around the bubble is really no big deal once you stretch it out for a few exploration trips. Its a bit like running IRL in that regard. I used to think a 5k was a big deal until I ran a 10k etc.

It would make sense if there were more ferry ships moving about the bubble, and carriers should help with this to some extent. But I would say that if you find the basic movement to be "grind" (I dont think it fits the bill) then this likely is not the game for you. Why one would kick around on the forums of a game that they have not played in a year is still a mystery though.

 

[Havvk]

It's not because you have a mind masochist enough to do that, that everyone has! ☺

I did the Hutton orbital tho... Was watching Netflix.. What a game!! Had so much fun watching the big bang theory at that time!

Oh! By the way! So we need to actually do something so much to be able to complain about it? I don't like vegetables, I don't need to eat 10 tons of them to say that I don't like it... Same as the "j" pressing in elite my dear ☺

No need to consider yourself elitist I just don't like it ❤

Good thing that you are reading me instead of hearing me then! I'm a vindicative guy, would probably get your nerves on good test

I'm not being elitist.

Nobody needs to think they're better than you to understand that the whole "waaa it takes more than 2 seconds to get to the other side of the universe" argument is just stupid whinging

 

[Helgarth]

Edit for further reply, at work

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Then you might care answering to me?

I have.

 

[Helgarth]

I have.

Sorry! I actually saw it after so I edited!

Just here to say that it's been like 2 or 3 answers you maintain that you did not say it was a simulation but it all comes from my very first reply which I answered a guy saying it was a simulation game. In my reply, you just say yes at the when I write

"Simulation?"

Meh... Don't turn your back so fast to what you say hey!

Aaanyway! You don't know rogue system, then I encourage you to check it out! You'll maybe understand the difference between arcade and simulation! Never said it would be compelling, just saying it's the closest of what a simulation would be

Yes we press button in every games!! Same for shooters and rpgs! My god!! How can you tell the difference between them!

B... Bu... But sir!! My choice is to explode everything fully engineered!! So I need to grind! I need to engage in something grundy to attain my goal..

Sooo this means that sometimes we don't have the choice to make something we don't like to appreciate better after?? Wow!! What a news!

 

[Helgarth]

I do not really see an issue with the travel. I think SC acceleration could be buffed, but that is it. Jumping around the bubble is really no big deal once you stretch it out for a few exploration trips. Its a bit like running IRL in that regard. I used to think a 5k was a big deal until I ran a 10k etc.

It would make sense if there were more ferry ships moving about the bubble, and carriers should help with this to some extent. But I would say that if you find the basic movement to be "grind" (I dont think it fits the bill) then this likely is not the game for you. Why one would kick around on the forums of a game that they have not played in a year is still a mystery though.

I can understand why it's not bothering some people, still Hutton orbital killed me!

Well yeah maybe not the game for me... But nothing makes me stop to have hope right? As I said I'm so hyped for the potential of this game, still at the potential state to me!

I check now and then to see the changes because I'm a huge fan of space sandboxes!! And well... I like arguing and bored at work!

The issues some and me have seem to not have that much changed yet since although lot of stuff improved!! I like to see the new mining!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The thread has gone too far but here was one of my proposals:

ENGINEERS:
You engineer a module to G5 in the regular way. For example the FSD size 5.
Once your FSD size 5 is modified to G5 you can directly buy FSD's of the same size (5) with the G5 mod in the outfitting menu (at an increased price of course). You just need to go to the engineer to add the experimental effect.
If you need to engineer FSD's of other sizes you can do it with just a single roll for each grade. And you don't need to pin any blueprint. You can do it at every station with an outfitting menu.
With Guardian Modules it works like this already, once you unlocked one module you don't need to repeat the full process again, you can directly buy it in the outfitting and it works very well, in fact no one ever complained about that!

MATERIAL TRADERS:
Another pain for me is collecting manufactured material and encrypted data.
I would introduce a Material Trader that trades all type of materials: raw for manufactured, data for raw, manufactured for data and so on with all possible combinations.
FDEV can place only 1 of these special traders and even put it far away (1-2000LY from the bubble) to make it special and avoid that the current ones become obsolete.
I would also reduce the exchange rates to trade materials and I would remove any restriction.

Thanks. That's much better than your OP. Perhaps edit your OP to add these specifics? Gives it more meat.

Not saying i like your ideas exactly, i'd prefer other options, but generally i don't find the grind too bad myself. I know how to get most materials and data without too much of a problem and the traders fill in the gaps without issue.

What I would like to see is a bit of balancing betweeen the professions, tone down mining a bit and up the other professions, bring them more into like with each other (with approporiate consideration for risk vs reward).

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Sorry! I actually saw it after so I edited!

Just here to say that it's been like 2 or 3 answers you maintenant that you did not say it was a simulation but it all comes from my very first reply which I answered a guy saying it was a simulation game. In my reply, you just say yes at the when I write

"Simulation?"

Because ED has a simulated version of the milky way.

Meh... Don't turn your back so fast to what you say hey!

I'm not.

Aaanyway! You don't know rogue system, then I encourage you to check it out! You'll maybe understand the difference between arcade and simulation! Never said it would be compelling, just saying it's the closest of what a simulation would be

I've seen enough to make up my mind.

Yes we press button in every games!! Same for shooters and rpgs! My god!! How can you tell the difference between them!

Work it out yourself.

B... Bu... But sir!! My choice is too explode everything fully engineered!! So I need to grind! I need to engage in something grundy to attain my goal..

Then grind away. I ain't stopping you. No matter what FDev add, you will still grind the quickest and easiest way to blow things up in your stupidly engineered murder beast of a ship. But if you find that fun, go for it. It isn't going to effect me.

Sooo this means that sometimes we don't have the choice to make something we don't like to appreciate better after?? Wow!! What a news!

Of course you have a choice. Choose to play the game in a different way, change your priorities of what is important. At the end of the day, the way you play the game, the motivations and what you want to do is your choice. You choose to play in a way which makes you grind out the easiest fastest way to get something and no matter how much variation FDev adds you will still grind out the easiest fastest way possible, even the best mechanic ever made will feel like a grind if you do that. But that is the choice you make.

 

[Helgarth]

I'm not being elitist.

Nobody needs to think they're better than you to understand that the whole "waaa it takes more than 2 seconds to get to the other side of the universe" argument is just stupid whinging

But that's where you are wrong buddy!!!

I like to take the time needed!! The time is fine and I'm actually thristy for long games to spend hours and hours (eve anyone?)

The issue you can't grip is the boredom of the actions!

At least for a button pressing game, I feel like having so much to do in cookie cliquer than while traveling in Elite!

 

[Havvk]

But that's where you are wrong buddy!!!

I like to take the time needed!! The time is fine and I'm actually thristy for long games to spend hours and hours (eve anyone?)

The issue you can't grip is the boredom of the actions!

At least for a button pressing game, I feel like having so much to do in cookie cliquer than while traveling in Elite!

Increase your jump range if you don't want to press J as often. Also fleet carriers are coming this December, so yea

 

[Helgarth]

Because ED has a simulated version of the milky way.


I'm not.


I've seen enough to make up my mind.


Work it out yourself.


Then grind away. I ain't stopping you. No matter what FDev add, you will still grind the quickest and easiest way to blow things up in your stupidly engineered murder beast of a ship. But if you find that fun, go for it. It isn't going to effect me.


Of course you have a choice. Choose to play the game in a different way, change your priorities of what is important. At the end of the day, the way you play the game, the motivations and what you want to do is your choice. You choose to play in a way which makes you grind out the easiest fastest way to get something and no matter how much variation FDev adds you will still grind out the easiest fastest way possible, even the best mechanic ever made will feel like a grind if you do that. But that is the choice you make.

Just answering the last paragraoh since it's only the relevant one then!

You say I have the choice then just dictate me to change my play style at the same time... Doesn't seem like a choice to me...! Am I entitled to play the same way... As you ? Which seems to be the way to not feel that grind! Maybe I could like it! I agree! But it still no choice

Do we really have the choice of our personal preferences? I like the blue color... Why? I don't know!! Can I change to red? Well... If you know how to do that, I would be happy!

Can I change my play style to yours and like it? Well... If you know how to do that I would be happy!

/ troll

Simulation version of the milky way? Ah yeah... So it's a simulation game because of that!

 

[Helgarth]

Increase your jump range if you don't want to press J as often. Also fleet carriers are coming this December, so yea

It might help I agree on this one!

But still... The action is not very thrilling!

I should probably say that the repetition of it tho... When I play elite, I take a mission. I'll do this mission... Then jump and jump and jump to go there...

"But man!! Take your time and look at the beautiful sceneries between jumps!! It will be less boring"

Yeah... Well... I can... But I don't really want to since it's the mission I take that is interesting me! I just want to do it!

I even (almost) find supercruise less boring since you feel a bit of actually traveling! Even tho it takes more time than pressing j! I still hate Hutton tho