Reduce travel time idea

[Virandar]

There's no technical reason they can't do mini jumps, and as far as I am aware the hyperspace cinematic is fixed in minimum length, basically to give the game time enough to load the data for the next system. When you sometimes get extended hyperspace transit times it is due to a slow or dodgy connection, basically you won't come out of hyperspace until the data for the next system is loaded, which is why you get stuck in hyperspace if you drop connection at that time.

Now as I understand they tested in-system mini jumps before beta, that brings up the problem of how to limit it to the stars in the system. You've already broken it away from only exiting at the most massive gravity source, and some gas giants are nearly as massive as stars, and quite often you get stars all through a system, so you end up being able to jump everywhere in some systems. In the end the mini jump testing even had the ability to jump to stations because they were navigation points. In other words secondary stars are at the moment only navigation points, just like stations, planets and asteroid fields, so if you allow mini-jumps to stars it also goes down the chin to other navigation points.

Yes you could add in some more complex stuff to limit it stars, more stuff for bugs to creep into, however it was found to be not a very engaging gameplay. Jump to system, jump to station, auto-dock, turn in missions, cargo etc, rinse repeat. people complain all the time about exploring being repetitive gameplay, jump, scoop, jump scoop. I suspect all you do by allowing in-system mini-jumps is adding more of the same for cargo missions. Oh just to add I don't subscribe to exploration being boring or repetitive, but I do a lot of things apart from jump scoops while I am exploring.

There are going to be differences of opinion on this, just as there are about every other single thing FDEV implement, but implementing every single player request I have seen would be a disaster of epic proportions, of that there's no doubt. I think we need to give FDEV the benefit of doubt, maybe they actually know what they are doing and don't do certain things for very good reasons we don't know, understand or in some cases accept.

As for the last sentence, there is something called "communication". And developers of any game would be forgiven many things if they bothered to communicate with their player base. This especially applies to Frontier, because they are notoriously very bad at communication.

To me in-system jumps between all navigation points do not create any gameplay problems. It also makes sense logically. Your navigation computer is able to give you a travel solution allowing your ship to jump from star to star between various systems. You can even, if you wish so, do minuscule jumps, like 1LY or so (I wouldn't bet there are no star systems closer than that, but I know I've done jumps of 1LY or not much more). There is no logical reason why it wouldn't be able to plot your course over smaller distances. So I would be in favour of a solution like in-system jump or FSD boost (acceleration and deceleration taking seconds, not minutes or tens of minutes).
You say it would make gameplay not engaging... There is absolutely nothing engaging about the current in-system supercruise travel anyway. USS? I ignore them, unless there's something particular I'm looking for. Other than that, I seldom check the descriptions of them (because I need to select them, slow down, change my course - this all when I typically have a destination I'm going to). I check particular ones when looking for engineering materials, such as Core Dynamics components - and this is a good example of situation where supercruise travel is necessary and feels like it makes sense.

Now, if there were some sort of anomalies (a comet, for example. Or a megaship. Or a new station en-route to it's final destination) showing up in my Nav panel after the system scan, I'd be more inclined to check them out. But it would have to be something that allows me for more interaction than scooping some cargo left behind. With this in mind the whole rescue mechanics (which is just scooping stuff in space) - new section in the space stations, that was a move into a good direction. So here's hoping they expand on that.
When it comes to being interdicted, every ship I fly has teeth. I may not be interested in fighting some combat fitted FDL sent after my passengers because it's time consuming, but these are generally not something I have to be afraid of. In most cases the interdiction for me defaults to two solutions: submit and destroy or submit and jump out.

So again, what I'm saying is that in-system travel is not engaging anyway. Hence my proposition: let's do the in-system jumps / FSD boost and please give me a good reason to fly around in supercruise. Engaging gameplay has to, by definition, involve engaging gameplay. More ways to interact with objects in space, more reasons to interact with objects in space, more meaningful interactions with objects in space. As I've mentioned, rescuing black boxes and escape pods was a move in a good direction. We need more of that kind of stuff, dealt with through missions mechanics and building working relationship with powers that be. Go and look for a lost vessel, go and escort new space station en-route to system X, go and deliver parts they need to fix it, go and obtain physical samples of comet on its way through system Y, go and explore derelict megaship in one of the systems in region Z... These all could be very viable reasons to travel in supercruise and look for stuff. Make me care about it and I will happily supercruise many times the distance to Hutton Orbital.

 

[varonica]

To me in-system jumps between all navigation points do not create any gameplay problems.

And you ignored one of the important parts of my post. You have no idea what gameplay problems in-system jumps to all navigation points would cause, because you haven't tested it or run a trial with it, and testing or trialling something like that with a live user base would be disastrous for the game if it was then removed after the fact, you want salt, you would have oceans eleven of it.

As far as I know FDEV have tested and trialled it privately, there are some things you just don't put out for general testing due to the possibility of destroying the game entirely, I think mini-jumps between all navigation points, while it might not cause the game to come crashing down, will destroy the vision of the game that FDEV, Braben and many of the current players have, it would just become another poorly implemented space sim, the makers would lose interest and it would eventually just fade away.

 

[Virandar]

And you ignored one of the important parts of my post. You have no idea what gameplay problems in-system jumps to all navigation points would cause, because you haven't tested it or run a trial with it, and testing or trialling something like that with a live user base would be disastrous for the game if it was then removed after the fact, you want salt, you would have oceans eleven of it.

As far as I know FDEV have tested and trialled it privately, there are some things you just don't put out for general testing due to the possibility of destroying the game entirely, I think mini-jumps between all navigation points, while it might not cause the game to come crashing down, will destroy the vision of the game that FDEV, Braben and many of the current players have, it would just become another poorly implemented space sim, the makers would lose interest and it would eventually just fade away.

I could have only tested it in other games. Which are not E: D (you are going to point it out, so just getting it out of the way), but faster travel doesn't seem to cause any issues anywhere. It's in devs' heads and in their approach, faster in-system travel doesn't affect the game balance so much. Still, have to say E: D offers a pretty good experience when it comes to flying the ship, so if we're comparing it with other titles, combat and normal space is a very good experience in Elite. But I digress.

If you're worried about trading, I already told you (seconding what another person in this thread told you as well) that most of the traders will do routes between stations very close to the entry point. It's not like stations further away from the entry point offer you bigger profits. There isn't an extra payout for goods sold at stations 10k Ls+ from the star. Distance only matters a bit in passengers hauling, but payout for that has already been nerfed (and some stations moved closer to the entry point).

Please don't tell me that all balancing decisions FD made are beyond questioning. If you do, I only have to point towards engineering (especially weapons) and ask you if you seriously think that having to artificially block NPCs from using engineered weapons shows a well balanced system. FD are not infallible, they were able to essentially break their own game with OP weapons.
Don't get me wrong, I like Elite. As I've mentioned, actual experience of flying the ship is very good. I do believe though that a lot of tedium in-between isn't necessary and that it's detrimental to the enjoyment of the game. I believe Elite would benefit from reducing that tedium to an absolute minimum and instead dishing out content accessible to us, stuff we will want to slow down for. ED is a poorly implemented space sim on its own. Well, not really, but it does have plenty of issues and it's not a finished product. It is a development in progress (just as every space sim seems to be these days) with some gameplay accessible. I'm not asking Frontier to drop their vision of the game. I'm asking that they think whether activities being time consuming for the sake of time consuming (i.e. not providing any content to engage with) are doing Elite any favours. In my opinion, they are not.

Ah, one more thing: I'm not asking for the supercruise travel to be removed. It serves a purpose. I'm asking Frontier to reconsider giving us option to speed it up at times when it doesn't serve a purpose.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

As for the last sentence, there is something called "communication". And developers of any game would be forgiven many things if they bothered to communicate with their player base. This especially applies to Frontier, because they are notoriously very bad at communication.

To me in-system jumps between all navigation points do not create any gameplay problems. It also makes sense logically. Your navigation computer is able to give you a travel solution allowing your ship to jump from star to star between various systems. You can even, if you wish so, do minuscule jumps, like 1LY or so (I wouldn't bet there are no star systems closer than that, but I know I've done jumps of 1LY or not much more). There is no logical reason why it wouldn't be able to plot your course over smaller distances. So I would be in favour of a solution like in-system jump or FSD boost (acceleration and deceleration taking seconds, not minutes or tens of minutes).
You say it would make gameplay not engaging... There is absolutely nothing engaging about the current in-system supercruise travel anyway. USS? I ignore them, unless there's something particular I'm looking for. Other than that, I seldom check the descriptions of them (because I need to select them, slow down, change my course - this all when I typically have a destination I'm going to). I check particular ones when looking for engineering materials, such as Core Dynamics components - and this is a good example of situation where supercruise travel is necessary and feels like it makes sense.

Now, if there were some sort of anomalies (a comet, for example. Or a megaship. Or a new station en-route to it's final destination) showing up in my Nav panel after the system scan, I'd be more inclined to check them out. But it would have to be something that allows me for more interaction than scooping some cargo left behind. With this in mind the whole rescue mechanics (which is just scooping stuff in space) - new section in the space stations, that was a move into a good direction. So here's hoping they expand on that.
When it comes to being interdicted, every ship I fly has teeth. I may not be interested in fighting some combat fitted FDL sent after my passengers because it's time consuming, but these are generally not something I have to be afraid of. In most cases the interdiction for me defaults to two solutions: submit and destroy or submit and jump out.

So again, what I'm saying is that in-system travel is not engaging anyway. Hence my proposition: let's do the in-system jumps / FSD boost and please give me a good reason to fly around in supercruise. Engaging gameplay has to, by definition, involve engaging gameplay. More ways to interact with objects in space, more reasons to interact with objects in space, more meaningful interactions with objects in space. As I've mentioned, rescuing black boxes and escape pods was a move in a good direction. We need more of that kind of stuff, dealt with through missions mechanics and building working relationship with powers that be. Go and look for a lost vessel, go and escort new space station en-route to system X, go and deliver parts they need to fix it, go and obtain physical samples of comet on its way through system Y, go and explore derelict megaship in one of the systems in region Z... These all could be very viable reasons to travel in supercruise and look for stuff. Make me care about it and I will happily supercruise many times the distance to Hutton Orbital.

Travelling is part of Elite gameplay and it always has been.
The DDF reacted with shock and horror when the original design was based on rooms in space with micro jumps, and so Supercruise was born.

SC is one of the least appreciated aspects of the game because it isn't twitch gameplay and appears to be a timesink.
However, it is where the scale of space is exposed, it's where risk is, and it's where the discovery is.
This is where you get tracked down and attacked by bounty hunters and pirates.
This is where you see unknown signals that you can choose to investigate or not.
This is where you let down your guard and get caught out.

Skipping it would in fact be removing the core of what Elite is.

 

[Para Handy]

Travelling is part of Elite gameplay and it always has been.
The DDF reacted with shock and horror when the original design was based on rooms in space with micro jumps, and so Supercruise was born.

SC is one of the least appreciated aspects of the game because it isn't twitch gameplay and appears to be a timesink.
However, it is where the scale of space is exposed, it's where risk is, and it's where the discovery is.
This is where you get tracked down and attacked by bounty hunters and pirates.
This is where you see unknown signals that you can choose to investigate or not.
This is where you let down your guard and get caught out.

Skipping it would in fact be removing the core of what Elite is.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ PRECISELY ^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[mathspode]

i Dont want supercruise to be remove.. too much gameplay works with it its okay if its stays like that but im not against some guality of life improvement such as

increasing speed and/or distance to disengage
having more of an exponential curve instead of linear acceleration/decceleration
Micro jump between star in the same systeme if they are at least 5000Ls appart, the micro jump only acceleration you to max speed of 2001c for the trip instead of Hyperspace
having autonomous disengage when in range of targeted destination
------

But im more into the side that the jumping mechanic need diversity of being totally revamped..

see first post for my ideas

 

[Rennard]

Travelling is part of Elite gameplay and it always has been.
The DDF reacted with shock and horror when the original design was based on rooms in space with micro jumps, and so Supercruise was born.

SC is one of the least appreciated aspects of the game because it isn't twitch gameplay and appears to be a timesink.
However, it is where the scale of space is exposed, it's where risk is, and it's where the discovery is.
This is where you get tracked down and attacked by bounty hunters and pirates.
This is where you see unknown signals that you can choose to investigate or not.
This is where you let down your guard and get caught out.

Skipping it would in fact be removing the core of what Elite is.

Having read through the thread and played since beta days, I tend to agree with this assessment but adding in-system jumps restricted to stars would reasonably be the best of both?

It would keep all of the benefits but just cut out the sometimes massive travel times between the stars. All of the travel to and from the planets/nav points/stations could be kept as is and all of the risk would still be in place.

 

[Para Handy]

Having read through the thread and played since beta days, I tend to agree with this assessment but adding in-system jumps restricted to stars would reasonably be the best of both?
.............

What - no Hutton Run? Are you crazy?

 

[Virandar]

Travelling is part of Elite gameplay and it always has been.
The DDF reacted with shock and horror when the original design was based on rooms in space with micro jumps, and so Supercruise was born.

SC is one of the least appreciated aspects of the game because it isn't twitch gameplay and appears to be a timesink.
However, it is where the scale of space is exposed, it's where risk is, and it's where the discovery is.
This is where you get tracked down and attacked by bounty hunters and pirates.
This is where you see unknown signals that you can choose to investigate or not.
This is where you let down your guard and get caught out.

Skipping it would in fact be removing the core of what Elite is.

Excuse me, but where did I ask to remove supercruise? Nowhere. I assume it's staying. And I appreciate it.

As for the scale of space... It's a galaxy of 100-120k Ly across. If you want to feel the scale of space, there's plenty of space to do so. Whether you're doing 50Ly jumps or 100Ly jumps or even 200Ly jumps, I can guarantee you will feel the distances.

Risk in supercruise? Where from? The biggest risk for me is like 30M rebuy, which I can do quite a lot times over. That's the Corvette, the only threat to it are Thargoids as it's not AX fitted and I've never even flown this ship in that direction. As for other ships, I also don't have to worry about threats to them. And it's not a matter of what these ships have on board in terms of modules because there are probably just a few ships which might be challenging when it comes to getting out of interdiction. I don't get attacked by bounty hunters or pirates. They are like mosquitoes to me, because as I've mentioned, I pay absolutely no attention to them and jump out if I'm busy or just take them down if feel like I can be bothered with that.
Discovery is supercruise? Again, what do you discover in supercruise? You honk the system, you check the system map and then fly around a bit scanning the valuable planets. You land on some of them if they happen to have arsenic, Niobium, Yttrium & Polonium. And this bit actually sometimes get more interesting, because at least you have a chance of encountering something unusual.
Unknown signals? Again, I don't check them. Unless I'm looking for something in particular. But anyhow, you're writing about these things like they were best thing since sliced bread. And I am really happy for you, but here's the thing: nobody wants FD to remove supercruise. On the contrary, I wrote I want them to add more things to do in supercruise so I actually want to use this mode of travel. Whilst at the same time allowing players to save their time a bit as well.

 

[SaliVader]

Travelling is part of Elite gameplay and it always has been.
The DDF reacted with shock and horror when the original design was based on rooms in space with micro jumps, and so Supercruise was born.

SC is one of the least appreciated aspects of the game because it isn't twitch gameplay and appears to be a timesink.
However, it is where the scale of space is exposed, it's where risk is, and it's where the discovery is.
This is where you get tracked down and attacked by bounty hunters and pirates.
This is where you see unknown signals that you can choose to investigate or not.
This is where you let down your guard and get caught out.

Skipping it would in fact be removing the core of what Elite is.

And none of that would be removed if we could jump from star to star within a system.

 

[stephanov]

What about adding the option of turning your cmdr into an "NPC with an agenda" until the next time you logon? cmdr. Bobio mentioned something similar in another post around here.