Ships Regeneration Rate

[Melanthes]

Does anyone know the hard numbers of mj regenerated under fire and perhaps the influence pips have on this rate? I'm currently testing different shield layouts on my corvette and I found this old post from 2017. I didn't want to necro the thread, so here is the quote:

Since release shield recharge (when shield is up) has been 1 point/sec in all circumstances (50% higher for bi-weaves).

AFAIK some time ago (2.3?) this was changed to: 1 point/sec when under fire for all shield sizes (as always). Then, 5 sec after the last hit, recharge rate increases to 1.3 point/sec for class 6, 1.8 point/sec for class 7 and 2.4 point/sec for class 8 (data from ED Shipyard). In supercruise recharge is even higher (I don't know the exact rates). Bi-weaves follow the same pattern but with higher rates.

--edit: Partially Ninja'd by UnhappyDev. In supercruise recharge is twice normal rate (not under fire).

That means at some point in a prolonged duel bi-weaves mj might actually surpass a normal shield in effective mj and at a later point even a prismatic shield if it never collapses? Of course this depends on the improvement of the under-fire-regen rate of bi-weaves, at 50% this might be negligible, but if the fast charge experimental is added or the rate is higher, it could be a good reason to use bi-weaves.

 

[Fett_Li]

To my knowledge, shields don't regen under fire at all.

 

[Morbad]

I do believe the regeneration rate under fire is 1MJ/s and that it takes 3-5 seconds for full regeneration (if higher) to commence. The official source for this escapes me at the moment, however.

The active and collapsed regen rates of sheilds while not under fire are part of the shield generator statistics.

SYS pips have no direct impact on regeneration rate, only damage resistance. However, the SYS draw of a regenerating shield is it's current regeneration rate, multiplied by the distributor draw statistic, and it's perfectly possible for a SYS hungry bi-weave (for example) to drain the capacitor faster than it can be recharged.

 

[Melanthes]

To my knowledge, shields don't regen under fire at all.

That's what I assumed originally. However given that there is a regeneration under fire, I wonder if it is dependent upon the normal regeneration rate.

I do believe the regeneration rate under fire is 1MJ/s and that it takes 3-5 seconds for full regeneration (if higher) to commence. The official source for this escapes me at the moment, however.

I've neither found an official source, even though I looked through some of the older patch notes. I hoped that someone remembers a devpost or something like that.
Because the quoted post could be read as "bi-weaves have a higher regeneration under fire". But without test or an official statement it's pure speculation.

 

[Cmdr Beteran]

Does anyone know the hard numbers of mj regenerated under fire and perhaps the influence pips have on this rate? I'm currently testing different shield layouts on my corvette and I found this old post from 2017. I didn't want to necro the thread, so here is the quote:

That means at some point in a prolonged duel bi-weaves mj might actually surpass a normal shield in effective mj and at a later point even a prismatic shield if it never collapses? Of course this depends on the improvement of the under-fire-regen rate of bi-weaves, at 50% this might be negligible, but if the fast charge experimental is added or the rate is higher, it could be a good reason to use bi-weaves.

I just did the exact same thing the other day, finally went for a bi-weave -thermal resistant with fast charge, on my Corvette.

I feel like it IS actually still regenerating under fire, as i went down to 1 ring during heavy fire from 3 guys altogether and managed to stay there for quite a while. I was concerned as i'm used to not seeing those levels, i had reinforced normal shield generator before, with higher shield MJ.

What is surprising for me is, when i killed the guys my shield did not look like it was generating any faster than under constant fire.

EDIT: Pips seem like not having any effect on regeneration rate as well. I went all wep on pips for a while, i felt like almost same time was needed for the shield with four pips on sys.

 

[Melanthes]

I tried the bi-weave in a duel and the feeling was comparable, although the evasive and low time on target style of my opponent, might be the actual cause, as he didn't hit me quickly enough to constantly force the shield into regeneration under fire mode.
But a fight against three opponents should not allow much in terms of normal regeneration. I would love to see more actual statistics of what's going on in game.

Edit: If there is an improved rate under fire for bi-weaves, reinforced bi-weaves would make a lot of sense.

 

[Krieger]

Because the quoted post could be read as "bi-weaves have a higher regeneration under fire". But without test or an official statement it's pure speculation.

Yes, bi-weaves have a 1.5 point/sec recharge rate when under fire (50% higher than standard shields). They have to have that otherwise they can not make up for their lower shield strength compared to standard shields.

 

[Fett_Li]

However given that there is a regeneration under fire, I wonder if it is dependent upon the normal regeneration rate.

This question is too hypothetical in my eyes. If there is no regen under fire it does not make sense to ask this even hypothetically. It's like asking: "Given that it can rain even without any clouds - how dense are these?"

You should first find out whether regen under fire is a thing. That should be doable quite easily. Grab a beam laser that does not drain your WEP capacitor, fire upon a weak shield with 4 pips to SYS and measure the time it takes for your opponent to loose his or her shields. This could be done best with a friend. If you try that with unengineered modules (in my eyes that'd be preferable), your opponent should loose shields after shield-strength * 0.6 * 1.6 / dps. 0.6 is the default thermal resistance damage multiplier and 1.6 is the SYS resistance damage multiplier. I hope, that my maths and constants are correct. If the time is higher, this should indicate that shields regen when under fire.

 

[Melanthes]

@Fett_Li I'm currently not near my pc so a test will have to wait. But you are right this is something very speculative , but now that Krieger answered this:

Yes, bi-weaves have a 1.5 point/sec recharge rate when under fire (50% higher than standard shields). They have to have that otherwise they can not make up for their lower shield strength compared to standard shields.

It means that with any minute of combat bi-weaves will creep closer to the effective mj of normal shields and any pause in attacks longer than 5 seconds will boost that.
@Krieger: Do you know if the fast charge experimental has any effect on this recharge rate under fire?

 

[Fett_Li]

I'm interested where this belief comes from. I'm also not at my computer right now but might be able to do the tests necessary on today's evening.

 

[Cmdr Nemo]

I think it was Obsidian Ant that has a video on utube where as he does a comparison of all three types of shields. And the overall results are the bi-weave wins.

 

[Krieger]

It means that with any minute of combat bi-weaves will creep closer to the effective mj of normal shields and any pause in attacks longer than 5 seconds will boost that.

Exactly.

@Krieger: Do you know if the fast charge experimental has any effect on this recharge rate under fire?

I can't remember having seen any info on that. But I think the recharge under fire rate was set at 1 pnt/sec (1.5 for bi-weaves) to ensure a shield under fire gets weaker.

 

[Melanthes]

That makes bi-weaves considerably stronger, than their visible statistics suggest, especially in combination with SCBs which prevent shield collapse. That also means that the reinforced mod, if one can use several shield boosters to get the missing resistances, is somewhat viable for bi-weaves. With four pips to system that means getting 3,75+ effective MJ per second.

@Fett_Li If you or someone else finds the time to test this, it also might make sense to compare a bieweave with fast charge and without. To see if the improved regeneration also affects the under-fire rate.

 

[Fett_Li]

I just did the tests. They suggest there is no regeneration while being fire upon. Find the results here: https://1drv.ms/x/s!AqtRyLcurU99kdxvE54TdKFw7F2TqA

There are two reasons for why I think there is no regeneration when being fired upon:

1. My test subjects reported that there was no SYS cap drain while being fired upon; this happened in the third test with the 572MJ. As you see those tests took quite long so there should have been some drain. Especially in the 0 SYS pip case.
2. The ratio between 4/0 pips is roughly consistent across all tests. If there were some regeneration, the 572MJ shields should haven hold longer because they had more time to regenerate.

 

[Melanthes]

I just did the tests. They suggest there is no regeneration while being fire upon. Find the results here: https://1drv.ms/x/s!AqtRyLcurU99kdxvE54TdKFw7F2TqA

That's clearly no regeneration at all. Thanks for running the tests

 

[Morbad]

I just did the tests. They suggest there is no regeneration while being fire upon. Find the results here: https://1drv.ms/x/s!AqtRyLcurU99kdxvE54TdKFw7F2TqA

There are two reasons for why I think there is no regeneration when being fired upon:

1. My test subjects reported that there was no SYS cap drain while being fired upon; this happened in the third test with the 572MJ. As you see those tests took quite long so there should have been some drain. Especially in the 0 SYS pip case.
2. The ratio between 4/0 pips is roughly consistent across all tests. If there were some regeneration, the 572MJ shields should haven hold longer because they had more time to regenerate.

Second point is the clincher. Passive regen while under fire could easily have been made free, cap wise, but even 1MW of regeneration would be ~7% of the DPS figure and the margins for error are much smaller than that.

Definitely Illustrates the importance of retesting things from time to time. Will have to measure the actual delay between cessation of damage and the regeneration resuming...I'll probably do this on my clipper as it regenerates almost exactly 2% per second with no boosters.

Thanks for the test.

 

[Krieger]

I just did the tests. They suggest there is no regeneration while being fire upon. Find the results here: https://1drv.ms/x/s!AqtRyLcurU99kdxvE54TdKFw7F2TqA

There are two reasons for why I think there is no regeneration when being fired upon:

1. My test subjects reported that there was no SYS cap drain while being fired upon; this happened in the third test with the 572MJ. As you see those tests took quite long so there should have been some drain. Especially in the 0 SYS pip case.
2. The ratio between 4/0 pips is roughly consistent across all tests. If there were some regeneration, the 572MJ shields should haven hold longer because they had more time to regenerate.

Good work commanders!

I was wondering why I came to believe the 1 c.q. 1.5 pnt/sec regen rate was active under fire. I did some searches and found this from Sandro Sammarco:

The regeneration effect will be more pronounced on shields that are already formed. It’s worth remembering that shields still cannot regenerate for a few moments after taking damage.

That was 12 dec 2016. So I could have known a long time ago.

Later the devs decided to go for higher broken regeneration rates as this post shows

we’re keeping the increased regeneration rate when broken, but we’re drawing back a little on regeneration when formed for all shields – though they’re still going to be slightly better than active regeneration on current live.

Broken regeneration rate has a much bigger impact on the protection time per shield cycle (up-down-up) than the active regeneration rate (as @Morbad hinted already). This is important for hybrid shield/hull tanking builds, which were the original target audience for bi-weaves.

 

[Krash]

That's clearly no regeneration at all. Thanks for running the tests

Its one of the reasons I put a long range laser turret on most of my PvP builds. Biweaves are pretty common and this is an effective counter to them regenerating.

 

[Shadowed]

I usually use Bi weaves for combat and the larger the bi weave class, the faster the regen. 5C Bi weave is 2.4 mj/s. 7C is 4.6 mj/s and 8C bi weave is signficantly higher at 6.4 mj/s! Don't let those shields get a chance to recharge!

Terrifying seeing a 3k-4k mj bi weave Cutter regen in real time. It is really fast.

 

[Bigmaec]

I usually use Bi weaves for combat and the larger the bi weave class, the faster the regen. 5C Bi weave is 2.4 mj/s. 7C is 4.6 mj/s and 8C bi weave is signficantly higher at 6.4 mj/s! Don't let those shields get a chance to recharge!

Terrifying seeing a 3k-4k mj bi weave Cutter regen in real time. It is really fast.

I used a 8C bi-weave (reinforced/fast-charge) on my Cutter today for the first time.
It drained my capacitor really fast when broken.
If I read Morbad's post correct it should be as following:

6.7 mw/s multiplied by 0.60 sys draw for a regenerating one = 4.02 mw drain on the cap / so no problem for the capacitor at 6 mw sys output (at 4 pips)

14.9 mw/s multiplied by 0.60 sys draw for a broken one = 8.94 mw sys cap drain, or emptying the cap after roughly 10 seconds.

With an low-draw instead of fast-charge it would be:

5.8 mw/s multiplied by 0.54 = 3.13 mw drain regenerating
13 mw/s multiplied by 0.54 = 7.02 mw drain broken, still too high for the c7 cap.

Right?