Relogging - quick fix - refresh button

[jacozilla]

As we all know in that game is relogging exploit what we talked many times. Robigo, quince, mission stackin, ranking up. Everything is connected to logging in and out to the game in a purpose of unlegit refresh bulletin board.
Normal refresh is 15 minutes, reloggo is less than minute.
That exploit is giving an 10-15 times more advantage than normal play.

Not bashing the OP, and I do see some merit in alternative refresh methods, but surprised 3 pages in no one has pointed out the factual errors to OP's assumptions.

Opinion is no right or wrong, can agree to disagree etc, but plain facts are:

1- No, we all DON'T know that relogging is an exploit.

FD has never stated mode relogging is an exploit, unlike other player actions they have come out and posted clearly is unintended and labelled as exploit (e.g. combat logging after combat initiated)

So while it's perfectly valid to not like it, not do it, and even wish other players didn't do it - saying it is an exploit doesn't make it so, when FD won't label it as such. Since FD is perfectly willing to come out and label other actions as exploits, it seems clear that at least for now, it is by definition not an exploit and condoned (if perhaps not encouraged, it is at minimum a tolerated activity and not labelled by devs as exploit)

2- No - reloading does NOT give "10-15 times more advantage than normal play"

The mere act of reloading to a different mode does not automatically refresh the mission board. Each mode has a separate timer. If you take missions from Open, switch to Solo and grab missions, then switch back to Open - you will not have new missions. It doesn't work on that 10-15x faster scale as OP incorrectly states.

I believe the server refresh is something like 10 min, perhaps 15 but seems like 10. No matter how many times you switch between modes, if you switch faster than the last refresh, you won't get new missions.

It does easily allow you to double up, so at minimum it does allow 2x scaling of mission taking. Perhaps a bit more if you get lucky and the timer was almost done when you grabbed it on one mode. So somewhere between 2-3x, with 3x as max. Nowhere near the order of magnitude larger OP incorrectly states with the 10-15x hyperbole.

3- I entirely agree that relogging as a function to play is not a good experience, even dumb. The rewards due to current poor mission board mechanics however has some players, including me, do it despite the negatives because the positives still outweigh it.

If you don't like it, don't do it. Calling it an exploit when FD clearly has not is simply trying to force your nanny state wish to other players.

 

[Crank Larson]

I thin we all agree - an logging in and out to the space sim is just stupid activity and instead of that we would like just to play the game.

So, to conclude the above.

Just please add a REFRESH BUTTON to BB. Instead of relogging, EVERYONE will get a possibility to just refresh BB.

I agree with your first statement. But your conclusion seems a little strange. The issue is that the board should not show different missions if you relog. Your suggestion is to make a minor issue into a feature and encourage it? That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Personally, I want the mission system fixed. All the little bugs resolved (scan missions, etc.), not being artificially limited in the number of missions I can take (e.g. trade missions - I should be able to take them until my hold is full), and lots more missions available. I certainly don't want the flaws to be consolidated into the system, which is what you are suggesting.

 

[avow555]

I get quite fed up with the missions board and just logout and do something else.

It's never been a very good system.

 

[Xious]

I get quite fed up with the missions board and just logout and do something else.

It's never been a very good system.

Same...

 

[Soliluna]

Yes i have idea, because i played 3000 hours since the beta. I know people from all groups here, pro, no-life, pvpers, gankers, mobians, newbies so I exactly know how large it is so i can say almost everyone because i have experience to say that.

No you don't. It doesn't matter how many hours you've played or how many people you think you know, you cannot speak knowingly regarding how everyone plays the game. You certainly can't use words like "exactly" to describe what you think you know.

If you've spent any amount of time on the forums while playing the game, you will know just how many different views there are and how polarising many of these issues can be. I would have called you out if you had said "the majority of players", the fact that you think "almost everyone" or indeed "everyone" is hilariously unforgivable.

 

[Noctover]

As we all know in that game is relogging exploit what we talked many times. Robigo, quince, mission stackin, ranking up. Everything is connected to logging in and out to the game in a purpose of unlegit refresh bulletin board.
Normal refresh is 15 minutes, reloggo is less than minute.
That exploit is giving an 10-15 times more advantage than normal play.

FDev tried ineplty to limit mission in BB to few, but people still are doing mass relog to get better missions on BB, so they in fact relogging more.

I thin we all agree - an logging in and out to the space sim is just stupid activity and instead of that we would like just to play the game.

So, to conclude the above.

Dear FDEV, if you are unable to deliver money-making content, patch the game architecture, then please there is SIMPLIEST and QUICK solution.

Just please add a REFRESH BUTTON to BB. Instead of relogging, EVERYONE will get a possibility to just refresh BB.

It may be even temporary solution, until you figure out how to patch it, but it will be better than what is now.

Then everyone will have EQUAL chances and nobody will call others as exploiters, cheaters and community will stop argue each other on that matter.

P.S.
I mentioned about relogging many times:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/347320-How-to-please-everyone-and-reduce-forum-rage
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/346789-RELOGO-Massacre-stacking
and in few other topics

I might be a bit confused but, you've called logging to refresh an exploit and your solution is to make the exploit part of the game?

Isn't that like saying "I love Counter-Strike but too many cheats using aimbot, please can you make aimbot part of the game?@

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

May be, but i am in my time with that community met people and exchanged information about our playstyle.



yes, in fact it is. stupid but true.
Everyone will be legitimately able to refresh BB, without moral dilemma, and nobody will call them a cheaters because of it.

Now everyone know it is exploit, because this is an exploit from a point of view a game designer, and logging in and out to the game is just annoying stupid atvicity, not connected with a space-sim gamestyle.
Its a method of access to the game, not a part of gameplay.

I am not saying about reducing income per hour and convict people to massive grind. No. I am saying IF Fdev are not able to make things right, balance payoffs and disable exploit then they should at least add refresh button as simple workaround.
Its simple and it will work.

Status quo is just cancerous. It is dicouraging to the play at all.

There isn't really a difference having the very same mechanic bound to a single UI element. Why bother even coding that?

 

[Crank Larson]

Yes i have idea, because i played 3000 hours since the beta. I know people from all groups here, pro, no-life, pvpers, gankers, mobians, newbies so I exactly know how large it is so i can say almost everyone because i have experience to say that.

Yet you haven't got enough experience to realise that you don't know all these people that you have simply "met" online. I don't know you, for example, and you certainly don't know me. Yet I've been on these forums just as long as you.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

I suggested a while back that it would be a smart solution to the mission refresh problem to give missions a (hidden value) shelf life of a random number between two and ten minutes, when the shelf life expires the mission is removed from the board. That way missions would pop into and out of the mission boards and would look like other commanders / npc's taking the missions, but the players could watch the boards "refresh" on the fly as missions shelf lives expired and were replaced. I still think that is a good way to progress as it prevents players from spamming the refresh button, making it relatively easy to manage the server load, while still giving players a steady stream of new missions.

Equally so, there are a lot of good suggestions coming through this thread, I really like the idea of caching 100 or 100's of missions locally, and allowing the player to filter mission types. For example, I don't do mining missions, so I could exclude them from my filters. Superpower allegiance might be another good criteria to include, for RP reasons, some people wont work for certain powers. That idea is not necessarily in opposition to the mission shelf life timer idea, as you could have 100 missions generated with short shelf lives on them, and still filter them by type, so using the mining exclusion I mentioned earlier I'd see say seventy odd potential missions, some would linger for seemingly ages while others would get scrubbed from the board emulating them getting snapped up within seconds. If the regen rate wasnt a straight one for one substitution, say a random delay between one mission disappearing from the board to a replacement spawning for it of between ten seconds and two minutes it would feel really authentic watching missions come and go.

 

[Darkfyre99]

No you don't. It doesn't matter how many hours you've played or how many people you think you know, you cannot speak knowingly regarding how everyone plays the game. You certainly can't use words like "exactly" to describe what you think you know.

If you've spent any amount of time on the forums while playing the game, you will know just how many different views there are and how polarising many of these issues can be. I would have called you out if you had said "the majority of players", the fact that you think "almost everyone" or indeed "everyone" is hilariously unforgivable.

^^^ This. We tend to friend up with like minded people, IMO, and if I was to judge the whole game according to my friend's list, I'd say that only one in twenty was a mode switcher, and even they do it rarely. And for all I know, they might have been trying to instance up with some friends, or had connection issues like I had a week ago.

Only Frontier truly has the data to tell how prevalent this practice is.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Well, guess the mods don't like this idea as they moved it to the graveyard where FD comment once in like 3 pages worth of threads.

Good whilst it lasted.

 

[Crank Larson]

Good whilst it lasted.

Was it? I tend to think that the mods made a good call. Putting the suggestions with all the other suggestions.

 

[goemon]

1 way to reduce mission load on servers, stop exploits and generally improved things imo. Fixed set missions

In a system with a warzone the correct faction has 1 mission always available kill members of set faction.... With a set price per killed enemy combatant. No stacking possible as you get paid per head.
Same with pirate missions
Same for food wanted in famine states etc etc.

The missions which change are the random ones to take x to y, or to take out specific target etc.

Also

Once you have a mission to scan X your save is flagged and the board knows not to offer the same mission from the same faction again

uhm, where would be the difference how non-mission gameplay works currently?

you can go to a CZ without a mission, and get paid by head.

you can trade to systems in famine and generate massive profits per ton of food.

etc. pp.

i think, people are playing missions for different reasons - looking for a little story, for a bit of guidance what to do, for a better ingame income than generated by sandboxing, more influence gains for their faction, activities you can't do outside of missions like assassinations... you can play the game without ever taking a mission, you can gain all elite ranks without a mission - you only can't gain navy rank. making missions like sandboxing isn't the way to go i think. they should fill a gap in the sandbox mode (if somebody feels like there is one).

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I don't relog. I play the game. If there are no missions I want to do, I do other stuff. A refresh button sounds rubbish to me, so that's a big no from me. COULD there be more missions available, sure. But no refresh button please.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

uhm, where would be the difference how non-mission gameplay works currently?

you can go to a CZ without a mission, and get paid by head.

you can trade to systems in famine and generate massive profits per ton of food.

etc. pp.

i think, people are playing missions for different reasons - looking for a little story, for a bit of guidance what to do, for a better ingame income than generated by sandboxing, more influence gains for their faction, activities you can't do outside of missions like assassinations... you can play the game without ever taking a mission, you can gain all elite ranks without a mission - you only can't gain navy rank. making missions like sandboxing isn't the way to go i think. they should fill a gap in the sandbox mode (if somebody feels like there is one).

for me trading without missions requires the use of out-of-the-game tools to make profit. this could be solved by displaying supply, demand and stock of items remotely.
also, the difference in income is a bit to big for my taste. a mission pays me up to a million for a few items - for the same payout in trading without mission, i need to haul allot more stuff.
last but not least - the mutlirole ships ingame seem to be king for making money with missions, as there are rarely missions that pay equivalent money for huge hauls...

 

[Kyokushin]

Yet you haven't got enough experience to realise that you don't know all these people that you have simply "met" online. I don't know you, for example, and you certainly don't know me. Yet I've been on these forums just as long as you.

It may be hard for you to get it, but there are people who are playing very long, know a lot of players, know factions, are involved in galaxy life nad just know what is going on and i am in that group of people.
Maybe you will get it at some time and join that group. Its not closed society. You just need to play and interact with others long enough.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

for me trading without missions requires the use of out-of-the-game tools to make profit. this could be solved by displaying supply, demand and stock of items remotely.
also, the difference in income is a bit to big for my taste. a mission pays me up to a million for a few items - for the same payout in trading without mission, i need to haul allot more stuff.
last but not least - the mutlirole ships ingame seem to be king for making money with missions, as there are rarely missions that pay equivalent money for huge hauls...

I trade without missions all the time and I don't use out of game tools.

 

[jhvanriper]

Honestly the issue is that the game developers want it to take months of game play to get to an Anaconda not days or hours via an exploit. The mission stack should get logged locally and not change at all if you board hop (Another fix would be if you do board hop it should take 15 min to fully respawn). A Vulture is a great ship. You should play that ship for a long time. In a lot of ways, the Vulture is my favorite ship. Big enough to do some damage and still turns well.

To me the problem is the fast ships are too slow and the turtle ships are too easy to kill with a team. The fast ships should be like 3 times as fast as the big ships and the little fast ships should do almost no damage to the big ships at all. EG to my mind a large pad ship should never be able to catch a small or medium pad ship. They mostly turn like a large ship, so you should get the benefits of a large ship.

Also - why can't I configure my ship the way I want? I should have x amount of space. If I want to have that as one huge space for a class 8 drive, so be it. If I want 8 small spaces, so what! I can see that they come with a set load out but maybe Engineers could change the space allocation? That would be great but maybe difficult for the game to handle. Depends on how much game dynamics are calculated locally. Hanging lasers on the outside should be up to your allocation of weight and energy management, not some arbitrary load out.

Also - finally - why doesn't the game nav computer remember where I bought stuff? It seems dumber than any trading system we had in the 1980's. It should remember all the items and prices at any port I have docked at. If I want a class 4 beam laser, it should be able to find it and plot a course. We finally got a refuel warning in mapping. That seems to just make sense that the nav computer would make sure you get to a scoopable star and not let you jump out to a non-scoopable star without lots of warnings.

 

[varonica]

Hmm, re-logging to get missions, not something I have ever done, kindly don't speak for me. "everyone does it" is not a valid expression for two reasons. 1) everyone doesn't do it and b) just because, according to you"everyone does it" doesn't make it a good or valid mechanic.

Now I am also in the camp of "I don't really care how other people play the game" but I am also in the camp of "don't presume to speak for me."