Remember wow?

Yes, all these "remember WoW" posts would have merit if ED was launched back in 2004 also, when MMO gaming was just emerging and SP gaming was still the main.

But we're not back in 2004.

You'd think that developers would be smart enough to know what the standard is for gaming in 2014.

We've come a long way since WoW and yet FD didn't learn from that launch over a decade ago.

The biggest flaw with these "remember how x game was at launch" is the "remember" part. It's exactly that - remembering a piece of history. Companies should study their history, learn from it and improve... well the good companies do.
 
Yes, all these "remember WoW" posts would have merit if ED was launched back in 2004 also, when MMO gaming was just emerging and SP gaming was still the main.

But we're not back in 2004.

You'd think that developers would be smart enough to know what the standard is for gaming in 2014.

We've come a long way since WoW and yet FD didn't learn from that launch over a decade ago.

The biggest flaw with these "remember how x game was at launch" is the "remember" part. It's exactly that - remembering a piece of history. Companies should study their history, learn from it and improve... well the good companies do.

Your argument is flawed, Modern MMORPG gaming had been going strong for 8 years at this point (2004) - it was NOT a new genre. And where not talking small fringe games either, Ultima Online, Everquest, Dark Ages, Asherons Call, Anarcy online. All that experiance to learn from, and from a company renowned for release quality and they still borked the launch.

Making games takes time, and development time is still development time, no mater how you cut it.

WoW has been in development for 17 years now, ED 2. Not really that hard to figure that out really.
 
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The thing is.... You can never truly quit Elite.. You just can't. Only another game is that way the original Doom. Sure you can take an extensive hiatus, sure you can say you quit and not look back but 30 anniversaries and related launch parties aren't built on the backs of quitters. They are built by commanders... Sooner or later space will call you back and you WILL answer.
 
I was there at the WoW launch, and, as your post says, they had a lot more to do back then than we have at Elite: Dangerous' launch now. And even though I quit WoW years ago and will never go back to it, the list of things we can currently do here is a lot shorter.

You can do random missions. Sadly, often reliant on USS.
You can trade. Without an actual economy, however.
You can bounty hunt.
You can pirate.
You can explore.
You can mine.
You can try to mess with faction influence.

The universe is a lot larger, but it's also a lot emptier, and, sadly, mining, trading and exploring aren't too entertaining for everyone for all too long, and everything besides trading doesn't seem to be a reasonable way to earn anything beyond an Asp. I'm not 100% sure about mining and exploring in that regard, but bounty hunting and pirating definitely aren't big earners. Pretty much anyone who wants a big ship will have to resort to trading sooner or later, whether they enjoy it or not.
And, differently from WoW on launch, if you get bored, you can't make an alternative character to start over and do things differently to kill some time until the next patch, without deleting your first one.
Not to forget, you could also properly chat with people, and you had a proper grouping system in place, as you mentioned - two things this game sorely lacks, as far as multiplayer goes. There was also gathering and crafting.

I never thought I'd find myself "defending" WoW, considering that I am very much the opposite of fond of it nowadays.
I'd much rather play Elite than WoW. But if you compare Elite: Dangerous' content at launch to WoW's content at launch, Elite loses. And it loses hard, in my opinion.

Elite has potential, and it has promise. As you say, they had less time and money to work with - but they did decide to launch now, and they did decide to charge full price for it.

Telling customers who bought the game to "be ashamed, truly ashamed" for wanting more content than there currently is, is rather inappropriate, in my opinion.
 
... back in 2004 also, when MMO gaming was just emerging and SP gaming was still the main.
It amazes me how many people forget that just the term evercrack is years older than WoW. 2004 might be when MMO gaming was just becoming mainstream (due in no small part to WoW), but it is hardly when it was "emerging" and WoW could hardly be called groundbreaking even then.
 
Your argument is flawed, Modern MMORPG gaming had been going strong for 8 years at this point (2004) - it was NOT a new genre. And where not talking small fringe games either, Ultima Online, Everquest, Dark Ages, Asherons Call, Anarcy online.

Making games takes time, and development time is still development time, no mater how you cut it.

WoW has been in development for 17 years now, ED 2. Not really that hard to figure that out really.

Oh it was going for even longer? Well that's even worse then.

Content I can understand.

Shonky servers, no functional MP to modern standards, game breaking bugs and exploits... no.
 
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I don't regret it for one moment, I should have done it years ago. sorry for the long winded and boring story, I just felt the need to tell/warn people ;)

Well done S.H.A.D.O, thanks for sharing. If you replace WoW with EVE, I could tell a similar tale of woe and addiction, I think mine was to a lesser extent than yours though but I also wasted too many hours over many years and ended up giving away all my hard eared digital wares. In the end, I had to choose between the game or my (now) wife. I made the right choice.

For me, I felt I had to play, partly because I was paying a monthly subscription. I felt I had to get my "moneys worth". I'm so glad Eilte isn't funded that way, if it was i wouldn't be playing now - not because I can't afford the money but because I can't afford the time that I'd feel I had to put in and as a massive Elite fan, that would be great loss to me.
 
That game was a huge monkey on my back, I was highly addicted to roleplaying and levelling my characters. I played for 6-8 hours DAILY for just over 5 solid years!

It was an addiction, every spare moment was spent in the game, it lost me many friends and harmed my marriage. The amusing thing is that after all that time, all those thousands of hours playing, I only ever went on two raids, I found them boring and full of elitist jerks. So, I spent my time roleplaying my characters and levelling them up, once a character of mine hit the level cap (be it 60,70,85 etc) I usually abandoned it and started a level 1. as I loved levelling up.

Back then you had a max of 8-9 character slots and when I'd filled all them with max level chars, I'd delete 2-3 and make room to start again. ...yes, really.

Quitting the game is very VERY hard, I quit the game twice and went back, the third time I was determined to quit, so I sold everything my characters had, stripped them naked and sold their armour (vendored) then deleted them one by one. I even gave away the guild I owned (I made a guild purely to use the in game bank to store all the stuff I'd been collecting)

on the day before my subscription was due to end, I logged in, went into Stormwind and give away over 868,000g to random people. (5-10k a person)

Then I deleted my last char, logged out, logged into battlenet and changed my password to a random mix of letters so I wouldn't be able to go back easily and then I literally threw my game boxes in the bin (WoW and 4 expansion packs)

I don't regret it for one moment, I should have done it years ago. sorry for the long winded and boring story, I just felt the need to tell/warn people ;)

Pretty much what I did. Have some rep for quittig WoW too :)
 
So do you all remember the release of WoW?

I do!
It was insane, it was hyped, it was... the next STEP UP in MMORPG gaming!

I'm an european, and i joined the US beta, just to get glimpse of the game, for me the experience was mind-blowing!

So... do you all remember now what you could actually do at the release of WoW?

I do!
-The year was late 2004, and after 3 years of development, it was releases.
-You could accept quests, and return them ! And you get a reward for doing so.
-You could fish, all the damn day, it was amazing!
-One could kill another player, it was called even back then "PVP", and if you killed them you'd get NOTHING!ahahahah (honor system introduced 5 months after release).
-You could group with up to 5 people, it was simply bliss.
-You could gather stuff and make stuff with it, you would NEVER need, or use, except a bag or quiver :p
-players could level there toons up to level 60!
-And after you hit lvl 60 you could join raids with up to 40 people, and wipe for WEEKS on end with a smile on your face, and considered yourself lucky you could do that.
-You could wait for hours on end for players to get behind there pc again because they "had to eat". Oh man... nostalgia.
-The spacebar on your keyboard was used for jumping!
-You could gaze at stuff in full real time 3D, and in some cases interact with it.
-9 classes!
-16 dungeons you would outgrow so damn fast and never visit again.
-1 raid, and 1 boss raid you spent more time in then all dungeons you did together."uh guy's i need to eat, my mom is calling me".


And that's it, nothing more, nothing less, a multi-million/billion? dollar company, and thats what they had to show for.

-BAH, ashamed they should be, simply utterly horrible... yet...
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Now i'm here gazing the forums, hyped for this release.
Gazing the interwebs, coming across some great story's on reddit, about players experiences.
And off course playing the game.

But most of the time i hear, JUST 3 WEEKS(!) most probably the same people that had that same experience as me, the release of wow,
complaining about what you cannot do, because why?

What exactly does one expect from a crowd-funded game supported by the player, made FOR the player? With JUST 2 years of development time AT release?
Simply too much... simply too much.

I've NEVER seen a team/game like this been updated at this pace.
I've never seen a game release so smoothly like this game.
I've NEVER EVER seen smooth gameplay like this at release of any game everneverever, and thats almost 20 years of gaming talking here.

It boggles my mind, and probably the team behind this game, of what some people actually expect at release of this game.
Just look at the timeline of this game, have some faith people.

Now, do you have any idea the size of that team back then? The budget ?(around 40 million back then).
Do you know what 40 million buy's you now, and back in 2004, well thats pre-2004 since 2004 was the release date of wow.
And that's 40 million just for development, not after release, i do not know for you guy's but inflation lately here is going through the roof.

Frontier did all this with around £3(development)... for those complaining about not having enough content in the game... you should be ashamed, truly ashamed.

The technical feat they have accomplished here will carry on for years to come, lay the foundation for many games to come, just think of that for once.

Content will come, it always does, its just not all there at release, it's always not all there at release.
And when it is, it's bugged, not balanced, overpowered, nerfed, changed, and some other things that most of the time just the community off.
Or... yeah you guessed it, its boring, already done, nothing we all have not seen before, "a grind".

This... this right here, is something new, embrace it, nurture it, it will grow, just give it time.
And with time i mean more time then the devs of WoW had, allot more.

You cannot simply expect frontier to do the same with this budget, if you wanted the same pace/flair as a triple A game you should of gave them more money, its as simple as that.
This is a simple and neutral fact.

Now i'm not a die hard fan of this game, i'm not the person who cannot accept criticism about the game he plays.
I'm a multigamer who has seen more games the i can remember, wasted years behind my desktop screen, so many years... steam account of over 400 games.
But i'm playing Elite now, i might be playing something entirely different next year, thats just how it goes with me.
But i cannot be one of the few here who sees the potential of this game, this simply cannot be.

I have a truly sad feeling inside of me, of people pounding these developers when things do not go as expected for them, and yet cheering like 10 year olds every time a new patch comes out.

Thats it, i got it off of my chest, feels good, and felt like the right place to do it.
Probably a lot more i wanted to say, but i forgot while i was typing, and i do not want to make this a 3-day's writing post.

Kind regards, David.


No offense, I hear what you are saying and yes there were a TON of bugs and connectivity issues. But when WoW released it had lots of content. Just saying.
 
No offense, I hear what you are saying and yes there were a TON of bugs and connectivity issues. But when WoW released it had lots of content. Just saying.

Really? It had more content, than random spawnpoints of enemies, and doing trade runs between point A to B? hmmmm, aren't you just trying to kick around the hornets' nest , coming up excuses to degrade this game?
 
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Oh it was going for even longer? Well that's even worse then.

Content I can understand.

Shonky servers, no functional MP to modern standards, game breaking bugs and exploits... no.

Granted, there major issues. I have no problem with people calling out the problems, Frontier are probably grateful of the feedback.

But I do take issue with people who expected the Sistine Chapel, you can't paint the Sistine Chapel in two years.
 
Ah yes, WoW at launch. All the rubber banding, broken quests and server outages.... and those fun low level dungeons (mm still nostalgic and Zul Farrak) which you could actually group up for and all enter at the same time, share loot and so on. I remember the big raids of us Horde attacking Darkshore and being met by similarly huge Alliance groups... battles which raged for hours across an entire zone. I remember being able to send messages to people I'd met and grouped with, being able to talk to more than one person at a time without resorting to third party programs or forums. I remember deciding to start a new character with a second slot to see what another route might feel like without sacrificing my main. Mostly I remember the great guild I was in, the fun people I met and socialised with (including many rl friends), the funny conversations and stories about what people were doing in game. Good times.

Could go on, but sure you get the point. These things always go both ways. Far too much doom mongering on this forum from late beta, but that's no reason to be complacent or ignore the fact that Elite launched in a very very basic state.
 
Just out of interest, can you name an mmo that did not have any of these problems and more?

Edit... on release..
How about the one mentioned in the title - at least WoW had working groups, group chat, system chat, you could actually meet your friends after telling everyone in group chat where to go...

Edit... on release too.
 
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For the record, I would rather have a ton of bugs and lots of content, then a ton of bugs with no content...

Hey I know I am totally glass empty here, but also I am still enjoying this game and I am hoping for some fast FREE content patches. Then we can watch all the complaints fade away.

But for now complaints is what you are going to get.
 
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