REMINDER: NERF THE ANACONDA AND RAISE T9 MLF

Guest 161958

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Red Anders said:
Yeah and look where that got him. Kid's probably propping up a bridge now :D
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That is because many players complain/bash/blackmail. I don't like it one bit when devs are restricted by players the way it happened to Sandro. Leads to stupid choices.
 
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MK Regular

M
As far as I can tell, MLFs have little to no basis in actual mass. That said, there is an overall trend of MLFs being bigger for ships that are physically larger and/or have more advanced systems.

Effectively, my head-canon is that ship MLFs are actually a measure of electronic interference given off by the ship rather than mass interference . A bigger ship with larger and more complex systems will give off more interference, resulting in a higher MLF.

I took the liberty of borrowing the ship data from Coriolis and plugging it into an excel spreadsheet, then made a few scatter plots of the various ships MLFs in comparison to hull mass and the sum of their module classes (core internals, hardpoints + utilities, optional internals, all of the above). While there is an overall trend for the hull mass vs. MLF plot, the correlation between mass and MLF is nowhere near as good as the correlation between the sum of module classes and MLF. For anyone who is interested, View attachment ED MLF Comparison Data.docx. Unfortunately, it wouldn't let me upload the excel file, so I had to copy everything to word. You will probably need to copy-paste everything back into excel to be able to see everything (I can confirm that this works).
 

Guest 161958

G
MK_Regular said:
As far as I can tell, MLFs have little to no basis in actual mass. That said, there is an overall trend of MLFs being bigger for ships that are physically larger and/or have more advanced systems.

Effectively, my head-canon is that ship MLFs are actually a measure of electronic interference given off by the ship rather than mass interference . A bigger ship with larger and more complex systems will give off more interference, resulting in a higher MLF.

I took the liberty of borrowing the ship data from Coriolis and plugging it into an excel spreadsheet, then made a few scatter plots of the various ships MLFs in comparison to hull mass and the sum of their module classes (core internals, hardpoints + utilities, optional internals, all of the above). While there is an overall trend for the hull mass vs. MLF plot, the correlation between mass and MLF is nowhere near as good as the correlation between the sum of module classes and MLF. For anyone who is interested, . Unfortunately, it wouldn't let me upload the excel file, so I had to copy everything to word. You will probably need to copy-paste everything back into excel to be able to see everything (I can confirm that this works).
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I think other modules should not have a strong influence on mass locking. FSD yes, that should be a strong modifier. It is called masslocking not Electromagnetic locking.

Even if Anaconda has bigger internals than a T9, average combat conda total tonnage is still 700t lighter compared to a full laden T9 because of that ridiculous 400t hull mass.

Mass should be the biggest modifier following Newton's law of universal gravitation.
Hull mass or hull strength on conda needs balancing.
 
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MK Regular

M
Lex Fernetti said:
I think other modules should not have a strong influence on mass locking. FSD yes, that should be a strong modifier. It is called masslocking not Electromagnetic locking.

Even if Anaconda has bigger internals than a T9, average combat conda total tonnage is still 700t lighter compared to a full laden T9 because of that ridiculous 400t hull mass.

Mass should be the biggest modifier following Newton's law of universal gravitation.
Hull mass or hull strength on conda needs balancing.
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'Mass locking' is wholly inconsistent, even when no other ships are involved. I am masslocked by stations out to a range of 5km, but am only masslocked by a high-G planet out to 2km. Can you please explain how this works? How is it that an object with a mass several times larger than earth is less effective at "mass locking" my FSD than a station that is only 2km across?

Seems a bit strange if you assume that mass is the biggest factor in masslock....

Also, Stations would (presumably) be giving off all kinds of electronic interference, so eh?

Assuming that mass is not the largest factor of masslock, FDev should probably change that to prevent more confusion in the future (or at least provide some info as the the in-universe origin of the misleading name).




Addendum: If we assume that a Coriolis station is made of solid tungsten (they are hollow and probably made of something lighter), it is about 0.00000000000215% of the mass of Earth. Realistically, the mass of an actual Coriolis station is probably a small fraction of that.
 
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Guest 161958

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MK_Regular said:
'Mass locking' is wholly inconsistent, even when no other ships are involved. I am masslocked by stations out to a range of 5km, but am only masslocked by a high-G planet out to 2km. Can you please explain how this works? How is it that an object with a mass several times larger than earth is less effective at "mass locking" my FSD than a station that is only 2km across?

Seems a bit strange if you assume that mass is the biggest factor in masslock....

Also, Stations would (presumably) be giving off all kinds of electronic interference, so eh?

Assuming that mass is not the largest factor of masslock, FDev should probably change that to prevent more confusion in the future (or at least provide some info as the the in-universe origin of the misleading name).




Addendum: If we assume that a Coriolis station is made of solid tungsten (they are hollow and probably made of something lighter), it is about 0.00000000000215% of the mass of Earth. Realistically, the mass of an actual Coriolis station is probably a small fraction of that.
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I agree we can assume as much as we want without lore explanations.

That said, the 2km radius is to make the game more enjoyable to people who instead of playing Elite "work" it. Personally I do not like that mechanic. I would prefer (and hope it will be implemented in atmospheric worlds and such) a simulation of how the normal engine would struggle like shuttles do because Newton's gravitation's law is not speculation.

I think nowadays the Elite comunity is not after a good balance between realism and playability as it was years ago. Now it is about having it all and now.
Thus you do not accept the modification of the hull mass and try to escape reason, deciding that masslocking is a "misleading" term.

Besides, the 2km radius inconsistency does not damage the game balance. 400t hull mass conda does.
 
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tolm

tolm
Yeah, why not! You want a magically light 400T Hull that makes your jump range ridiculous? Fine. But you shouldn’t be mass-locking anything heavier than that!!
 

TheMegaTurnip

Banned
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Lex Fernetti said:
That is because many players complain/bash/blackmail. I don't like it one bit when devs are restricted by players the way it happened to Sandro. Leads to stupid choices.
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As much as I love the game and being part of the community, I have never met such a group filled with self-entitlement. (Don't start, I'm not being abusive)

It really does seem very much like due to this game originally being crowdfunded, people seem to think they can advocate things in such manners where it often comes across as "I want this and screw everyone else who might disagree with me, because IIIIII was an ALPHA backer"

This is a real Fing problem with this player base. It has to be said.
 

Guest 161958

G
TheMegaTurnip said:
As much as I love the game and being part of the community, I have never met such a group filled with self-entitlement. (Don't start, I'm not being abusive)

It really does seem very much like due to this game originally being crowdfunded, people seem to think they can advocate things in such manners where it often comes across as "I want this and screw everyone else who might disagree with me, because IIIIII was an ALPHA backer"

This is a real Fing problem with this player base. It has to be said.
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I am not an alpha backer. I do not even have a LEP.
It looks like that there has been a change of course pushed mostly by non alpha backers / WoW like mainstream MMO consumers which is deviating Elite from the original vision and I think this whole magical 400t hull intouchable issue is one result.
And yes also the backers who want to keep the conda as it was in the past.
This I think is in front of everybody's eyes.
 
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