General Remove "likelihood" feature, it is unnecessary in the current version of the FSS

[Old Duck]

Five pages in, and the OP is still fighting this fight. Surely the likelihood feature is something you can ignore. It's just words on the screen. I ignore the "Anonymous Protocol" words because I think they are stupid. If I could go into the text files (if ED had them) and change that to "Restricted Access", I would in a heartbeat. But I can't, and I know that Frontier won't change this for just me, so I just put up with the dumb wording and imagine it says "Restricted Access".

I also pretend that Iron, carbon, and other very common elements that are not to be found anywhere in the galaxy except for shooting rocks, I pretend that these are something much more valuable, like rare earth magnets, vacuum formed carbon nanotubes, etc. What else can we do? Sometimes you just got to play the game you've got.

 

[Old Duck]

And I also said I would prefer if there was no scanning and that there was just the likelihood.

So how about we remove the scanning feature as it ruins the likelihood feature.

I support this, and that's how it originally was, but certain people cried and now here we are.

 

[muroko]

I don't get why people treat this post as a demand? It's a simple suggestion, which by the way was never about rolling it back to how it was before.
Remove the likelihood, add what is definitely not there (which takes significantly less space than "Geological very likely : RESOLVING" and maybe we can have the Human/Thargoid/Guardian locations back into that box.

anyway i have doubts if these suggestions reach the competent people at all, so i don't even know what the i'm doing here. wasted more time on this pointless crap than i would ever waste on waiting for those scans.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I don't get why people treat this post as a demand? It's a simple suggestion, which by the way was never about rolling it back to how it was before.
Remove the likelihood, add what is definitely not there (which takes significantly less space than "Geological very likely : RESOLVING" and maybe we can have the Human/Thargoid/Guardian locations back into that box.

anyway i have doubts if these suggestions reach the competent people at all, so i don't even know what the gently caress i'm doing here. wasted more time on this pointless crap than i would ever waste on waiting for those scans.

Some of us disagree with your suggestion.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

I think they should remove the Asp X and Asp Scout. They are ugly, gross, and I never use them

 

[varonica]

I think they should remove the Asp X and Asp Scout. They are ugly, gross, and I never use them

Well that's two of us, it appears your suggestion has twice the player base support of the OP's suggestion so it must get priority

 

[Ezren]

I think they should remove the Asp X and Asp Scout. They are ugly, gross, and I never use them

At least the Asp Scout, which I think I just bashed in another thread coincidentally.

Asp X has its uses, even though I don't like it personally.

 

[Linnunrata]

I just noticed the likelihood feature and it's awesome - took ages for me to finish the planet scanning, now I can just see if there's likely to be biological signals.

Awesome feature.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I think a way more critical point is that these allegedly pre-calculating the surface for suitable conditions comes along as an obvious lie: On planetary approach the POI markers still move around, often even from the front to the back side of the planet. That never would happen if the locations would already have been determined. So what are they talking about?

Not sure what's going on with your PC, but mine don't move around.

 

[muroko]

Right now I'm uploading a small example...

Look at 0:06 where the POI is still in the center.
I admit it's not the best example, but if it's still not clear what I mean I'll find a better one...
Source: https://youtu.be/Px0tqpPRWnY

i was gonna say it's probably because the planet has rotated since the calculation of the location, but this one moved from the middle to the bottom, so yeah. i also have these, plus when i'm approaching one, sometimes it keeps jumping between 2 locations not far from each other.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Right now I'm uploading a small example...

Look at 0:06 where the POI is still in the center.
I admit it's not the best example, but if it's still not clear what I mean I'll find a better one...
Source: https://youtu.be/Px0tqpPRWnY

I believe that's a bug. You can see that the one dead centre is still there, but you are now selected on a different POI. Maybe it's an issue with the numbering not being shown, but it looks like a bug to me.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

i was gonna say it's probably because the planet has rotated since the calculation of the location, but this one moved from the middle to the bottom, so yeah. i also have these, plus when i'm approaching one, sometimes it keeps jumping between 2 locations not far from each other.

This is a normal thing for all Geo/Bio POIs on Planets ever since Mapping become a thing in V3.0.

At a distance, all of them will display as center-mass on the Planet and the NAV Panel will also show them at pretty much identical Distances.

As soon as you get close enough, the ones closest to you will display properly at their correct position.

If that behavior is due to a bug or due to some technical limitation (Planet LOD from larger distances) I don't know.

PS.
If you approach a Planetary Base or Station that actually sits on the back side of that Planet, from a distance the Reticule will display as solid (indication that the Object Targeted is within line-of-sight).
Getting closer then, that will suddenly change as the System realizes that the Ship does not have line-of-sight to it - causing the reticule change and indicate that condition.
(SuperCruise Assist btw. suffers from the same and will discontinue function/throttle idle at this very moment with a Notification "Establish Line of Sight")

-- edit --

Just ran a test on a 5800km sized body.
The distribution of the Geological Signals appeared to properly disperse as soon as I got to ~0.1Ls distance. Moving outside of that distance makes them all fall together again.

 

[varonica]

I think a way more critical point is that these allegedly pre-calculating the surface for suitable conditions comes along as an obvious lie: On planetary approach the POI markers still move around, often even from the front to the back side of the planet. That never would happen if the locations would already have been determined. So what are they talking about?

No, that's not to do with surface generation, that's to do with LOD. If you check your nav tab you will see that beyond a certain range all the POI's record the exact same distance from you, because there's no point in presenting those details until they can actually make a difference. It's the same with the surface, although the surface generation happens when the POI's are calculated you will still see, on approach to geo in steep valleys, that smoke and vapour appear first high in the air, because while the planet generation took place when the POI's were calculated they don't display the entire planet surface detail while you are megameters away, that level of "observed" detail only happens when you get to about 30klms from the surface or point you are approaching. All designed to reduce load on the vid card of course, but it can sometimes lead to strange effects.

That's not to say there aren't the occasional bugs, specially on really small bodies where I have approached the yellow circle of a POI only to observe that it appears to be underground, but checking the distance on the nav panel clearly indicates it's on the other side of the body even though the full yellow circle appeared this side. That's obviously a bug, but very rare, and on the odd occaision it has happend it corrects itself if I fly out to orbital cruise range. But POI's appearing to move from front to back of of the planet or moon while still well outside of orbital cruise range is meant to happen because that's the range FDEV have decided to differentiate them.

 

[varonica]

Right now I'm uploading a small example...

Look at 0:06 where the POI is still in the center.
I admit it's not the best example, but if it's still not clear what I mean I'll find a better one...
Source: https://youtu.be/Px0tqpPRWnY

Yes, at the start of the video you were still well outside the range where the POI's start showing as seperate points with individual distances and locations, the point at which it moves is the moment you approach close enough for the points to be marked separate. Plenty far enough away that you have time to decide which way to go to approach the POI. If you checked your nav tab on a body with multiple points you would note that before the moment it moved all the POI recorded the exact same distance, which is to the centre of the body, so the center of the body and the POI markers have not yet been differentiated, after that moment the center of the body and the POI markers get their own individual distance recorded in the nav panel.

Obviously should have scrolled to the end because FalconFly has done some nice pictures to explain the same thing, but yes this have been happening like this for along time.

 

[jason 55]

You overlook the fact that this probability notification was specifically introduced because of the time it takes to complete the scan when there are surface features.

From the patch notes (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/january-update-patch-notes.535051/post-8233677):

Exploration

• Implemented an alternative solution to help mitigate the long delay when scanning planets with geological sites.:
  • As it currently stands, in order for the geological/biological sites to be placed on the surface, the entire stellar body must be fully generated (we then know the topography and can place sites where they will be accessible), which can take tens of seconds.
  • As part of the January Update, we aim to address this with an alternative process. We have run tests on thousands of in-game planetary bodies and by using this data, we're able to extrapolate the likelihood of geological/biologic sites being present on similar stellar bodies. We then use this data, and indicate if the planet is ‘Unlikely’, ‘Likely’, or ‘Very Likely’ to have a geological/biological sites.
  • It is not 100% guaranteed that there will be a geological/biological site on the planetary body, but does give commanders a much faster indication of probability. This will enable commanders to quickly ascertain if the planet's worth a visit.
  • If the commander wants to have a definitive answer without travelling to the body they can still wait for the scan to complete in FSS. This data is also now shown in the body details on the system map.
  • Thargoid, Guardian or Human sites will show up instantaneously. These results have moved to the stellar body details shown on the right in the zoomed in FSS view.

So "you have spoken" but really maybe you shouldn't have.

I still fail to see how the addition of this feature makes scanning quicker, unless it is just a graphical issue with 'stuttering'.
If a commander is exploring then scanning every planet, moon etc increases the payment make for exploration which takes time. Under the old system a planet either shows 'none' immediately or continues to scan, therefore if you have no interest what possible geological or biological discoveries are 'likely' to be made you just cancel the scan and continue to the next planet, under the new system if either shows 'none' or likely/highly likely etc and refines the scan again if you have no interest in scanning you just cancel the scan and move on to the next. So how is it quicker as a 'refined' scan takes just as long as the old scan depending on how many sites are found.
To any Commander that doesn't want to scan or to the Commander who wants to see what geological or biological sites are present this new feature makes absolutely no difference to the amount of time spent exploring.

 

[Winterwalker]

I still fail to see how the addition of this feature makes scanning quicker, unless it is just a graphical issue with 'stuttering'.
If a commander is exploring then scanning every planet, moon etc increases the payment make for exploration which takes time. Under the old system a planet either shows 'none' immediately or continues to scan, therefore if you have no interest what possible geological or biological discoveries are 'likely' to be made you just cancel the scan and continue to the next planet, under the new system if either shows 'none' or likely/highly likely etc and refines the scan again if you have no interest in scanning you just cancel the scan and move on to the next. So how is it quicker as a 'refined' scan takes just as long as the old scan depending on how many sites are found.
To any Commander that doesn't want to scan or to the Commander who wants to see what geological or biological sites are present this new feature makes absolutely no difference to the amount of time spent exploring.

There is a difference because a spinning wheel is not very appealing on the psychologiucal level. An estimate gives you a chance to get a feel for the system, in the FSS when you're stationary and potentially vulnerable. The detail you can do in the system map on your way to the first body or if you see high likelihoods for the type of thing you're looking for, you can drop and put the kettle on.

 

[jason 55]

There is a difference because a spinning wheel is not very appealing on the psychologiucal level. An estimate gives you a chance to get a feel for the system, in the FSS when you're stationary and potentially vulnerable. The detail you can do in the system map on your way to the first body or if you see high likelihoods for the type of thing you're looking for, you can drop and put the kettle on.

True enough but that still doesn't alter the fact that, to scan or not to scan takes exactly the same amount of time as the previous FSS, as scanning a planet with, say 48 geological sites will still take over 15 seconds unless you cancel it. When an immediate 'none' still takes no time at all. Of course there is the possibility ( not one I've had yet) that a 'likely' scan will return zero sites which then means the scanning has actually cost you time which as you state in a vulnerable stationary position is not a desired situation.

 

[Para Handy]

True enough but that still doesn't alter the fact that, to scan or not to scan takes exactly the same amount of time as the previous FSS, as scanning a planet with, say 48 geological sites will still take over 15 seconds unless you cancel it. When an immediate 'none' still takes no time at all.

Have you been out exploring and only interested in maybe biological surface features?

 

[jason 55]

At this moment I'm 27,444 ly from Sol in the Orion-Cygnus arm and as such I'm exploring any and all astronomical, geological and biological features, not that many stations/structures around here yet so not sure what else you consider I may be scanning for and the fact is still that , if scanning, the time to scan is the same as the old FSS just now you have a 'likely/highly likely prefix (correct me if I'm wrong but under the old FSS it only continued a scan if something was there otherwise it instantly shows 'none' just as it does now).

 

[muroko]

At this moment I'm 27,444 ly from Sol in the Orion-Cygnus arm and as such I'm exploring any and all astronomical, geological and biological features, not that many stations/structures around here yet so not sure what else you consider I may be scanning for and the fact is still that , if scanning, the time to scan is the same as the old FSS just now you have a 'likely/highly likely prefix (correct me if I'm wrong but under the old FSS it only continued a scan if something was there otherwise it instantly shows 'none' just as it does now).

the feature itself doesn't mean much. but people take advantage of the fact, that if you find a body that has both biological and geological signals, you know that immediately. before this update, you only knew if there is biological signal on a planet if you waited for the scan to finish. i have to agree with those who say that this is a good thing. there could be different ways to separate geo and bio signals, but at this point i'm just done suggesting anything