Repeat the same Guardian unlock 18 times? Really?

[Hadarmil]

So, what exactly are those 18 blueprints for? Why would you need 18 different weapon blueprints to make a single weapon? What are those module blueprints for?


Same as shooting different colored rocks on planet surfaces. After a while you remember DB saying something about refusing to put artificial gravity in the game as it's unrealistic...

 

[Vardaugas]

A way to reset the site in game without having to relog would go some way, at least making it appear more intentional that you have to go through the same thing more than once than the workaround of relogging.

Or a pointer to another system, so you can just keep following a string, even if the individual puzzles are the same.

In fact, I would remove the reset from relog, reduce the amount of blueprints needed, add breadcrumbs to follow to new sites and make sites more varied both in layout and puzzle procedures. Then you'd have continued "quest" with continued reward. Could add some hidden/locked "treasure" to sites that can be sold off for credits, too. Or if items are too complicated to add with the payout, some kind of guardian intel package could work.

 

[Ethaidan]

As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, at some point in game design, gameplay become about unlocking modules / weapons rather than using them. That totally shifts where people expect the balance to be. Personally, I don't see "the number of times we repeat a puzzle" as a matter of balance.

If it was meant to take a long time, then perhaps it would have been better if the puzzle itself had been more intricate and took longer to complete.

Ah, but the puzzles are incredibly intricate, and in some cases damned near impossible to solve. Cast your mind back to one if your own videos where you tried, and failed, to even comprehend an underlying aspect of the triangulation required to even locate an alien site by scanning different beacons (no offence). The problem is, the puzzles are actually too hard for a single cmfr... but Cannon (and others) manage to solve them so fast, then produce guides & manuals, that the only way to make things difficult, is to have us repeat the solution. So really, it's all Cannon's fault! (I don't mean that, please don't stop doing what you do).

Having said that, I think they may have overegged the Guardian stuff a bit. Needing to visit more sites (all seven types) with different ways of collecting different blueprints from different sites, rather than repeating the same thing on one site, could have been more interesting.

 

[Maka Gucci]

The Guardian grind is not that bad compared to other parts of the game. Getting from system A to system B is the most grinding part of the game, and it's been the same way for years. Jump, scoop and honk x1,000,000.

But this is totally arbitrary grind. It's not just travelling to a destination, but being asked to open 20 doors once you get there just to ring the door bell.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Unless I am completely mistaken, it's actually random as to whether you will get a weapon blueprint or a module blueprint on completion. That means you will need to complete it significantly more times than 18.

DCS sounds like a good option...





Someone will no doubt tell you that the "intended" way to play, is to complete the site, and then fly off to another site. [haha]

Or not do them at all like me. Nobody forces you to get the guardian tech and there is no need when the current engineered stuff is better. Do them once for the experience then leave.

 

[Mengy]

This was the straw that broke the camel's back for me and I've been saying for a while now that the whole slew of game play revolving around materials has basically gone way too far.

There is far too much so-called game play which involves collection of materials - it has swamped the rest of the game. And there isn't much of the game left anyway if you discount materials and engineering and new module unlocking.

Let's see what the rest of this year's Beyond updates bring. It's Q2 now so the Q2 Beyond update will be in a month or so's time. Plus Frontier have hinted at paid-for 'premium' DLC, so I still live in hope that they manage to introduce something which compells me to play again.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm still holding out for the Q4 exploration improvements. If they end up being horse pucky however....

 

[NeilF]

This was the straw that broke the camel's back for me and I've been saying for a while now that the whole slew of game play revolving around materials has basically gone way too far.

There is far too much so-called game play which involves collection of materials - it has swamped the rest of the game. And there isn't much of the game left anyway if you discount materials and engineering and new module unlocking.

Let's see what the rest of this year's Beyond updates bring. It's Q2 now so the Q2 Beyond update will be in a month or so's time. Plus Frontier have hinted at paid-for 'premium' DLC, so I still live in hope that they manage to introduce something which compells me to play again.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yep... It's Engineering gone rampant...

More materials, new side effect (spells), more new things to buy with your materials, then... *takes a breath*
More materials, new side effect (spells), more new things to buy with your materials, then... *takes a breath*
More materials, new side effect (spells), more new things to buy with your materials, then... *takes a breath*

When do we GET TO DO SOMETHING MORE MEANINGFUL WITH THE NEW THINGS? Seems almost every aspect of the game is collecting materials or doing CGs... And all the time we're predominantly playing within the same mechanics as we were 3-4 years ago. Just now with tarted up ships (which are less balanced).


Q4 is my last true hope - FD need to show us they can actually design and development some impressive new gameplay mechanics with some depth.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Or not do them at all like me. Nobody forces you to get the guardian tech and there is no need when the current engineered stuff is better. Do them once for the experience then leave.

"Just dont do the poorly designed parts" is a terrible defense. Either come up with arguments why the current state is good, or advocate for change. And they actually unlock unique stuff like the FSD booster that you cant get any other way either.

 

[Vedmo]

I ran one site 8 times for a weapon unlock, and it really wasn't that bad. So far as the idea intended game play design was to passively acquire these as a dutiful explorer investigated guardian sites, it was pointed out to me in another thread there are not enough guardian sites for this to feasibly unlock more than a few individual technologies. So by design, if one wants to unlock all of the guardian tech, one has to repeatedly re-log to repeat the same thing over and over.

In many other games, repeating the same instance to gather gear, or items that get you gear, is designed game play that is engaging and works, but for some reason it doesn't feel like the same thing when I'm doing it in ED. Honestly though, it isn't that big of an issue to me, if I want the stuff I'll go do it.

My unsolicited recommendation to improve it would be to have each individual site with a pylon charge game be a onetime gateway to a specific piece of guardian tech, with any additional materials required for the unlocks dropping off of skimmers or obelisk scans.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I ran one site 8 times for a weapon unlock, and it really wasn't that bad. So far as the idea intended game play design was to passively acquire these as a dutiful explorer investigated guardian sites, it was pointed out to me in another thread there are not enough guardian sites for this to feasibly unlock more than a few individual technologies. So by design, if one wants to unlock all of the guardian tech, one has to repeatedly re-log to repeat the same thing over and over.

'it isn't that bad' is barely acceptable for a job, not for something we pay for the privilege of doing. And of course it is feasible: just say that if you hand in one module blueprint, it unlocks all guardian modules. Same for weapons. The only real question is:"What is most fun?" The answer is:"See these cool and unique sites once, have a fun experience then get the stuff." All the 'it isnt so bad and what else can we do?' is just defending the indefensible.

 

[Genus]

How did it get passed through to actually be in the 'game'?
That's what I wonder.

Someone ran out of chips at the Thursday Poker game and started betting items on the backlog.

 

[Vedmo]

'it isn't that bad' is barely acceptable for a job, not for something we pay for the privilege of doing. And of course it is feasible: just say that if you hand in one module blueprint, it unlocks all guardian modules. Same for weapons. The only real question is:"What is most fun?" The answer is:"See these cool and unique sites once, have a fun experience then get the stuff." All the 'it isnt so bad and what else can we do?' is just defending the indefensible.

I wasn't say "it really wasn't that bad" was an attribute of great game design. My feasible comment was not about running these once being feasible, I was saying there are not enough sites in game for unlocking guarding tech to be feasible without repeatedly running a site over and over again, which was a knock on how things currently work. I went on to suggest improving it in way that nearly mirrors your own recommendation.

Do I think it could be better? Yes.

Do I think it is currently so bad there is no reason to go through the process to unlock items I want? No.

 

[TheSisko]

Imagine how great this game would be, if the game design was up to the standards of the visuals and audio.

 

[Enderby]

Imagine how great this game would be, if the game design was up to the standards of the visuals and audio.

Man, that is my dream.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Imagine how great this game would be, if the game design was up to the standards of the visuals and audio.

Then again, consider the converse.

 

[Mengy]

Imagine how great this game would be, if the game design was up to the standards of the visuals and audio.

If that was the case I'd honestly be spending tons of money in the store on DLC and such, and I'd be fine with that because I'd be playing a whole lot more of the game. I love the concept of Elite Dangerous, and the graphics and audio are incredible, but it's the game play and mechanics that I find so lacking, and it oh so often just makes me not want to play at all.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Imagine how great this game would be, if the game design was up to the standards of the visuals and audio.

That+1.

It seems the design team is tasked with finding a way to turn gold to lead. They are edging close apparently.

 

[Maro-Val]

Second time that i ll say it today but.. trully pathetic.. and i really dont mean to sound inpolite. I only got the gauss cannon that i needed and i am really ashamed to admit it.
Its the definition of mindless grind. The amount of grind in this game, reminds me mini games for 10 year olds. Its a complete insult.

 

[Enderby]

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, what.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I'll confess, I did take advantage of the unintended Guardian Codex giving Blueprints glitch when 3.0 first dropped, by running both The Ancient Ruins and The Guardian Logs missions together, requiring me to scan a total of 129 obelisks, which in turn turned out to scanning quite a lot more than just 129, as some of these were glitched, bugged, broken, or otherwise screwed up.

That said, looking from now into the future....

Either the number of blueprint fragments needs to be considerably reduced when unlocking Guardian items, or the drop rate or means of obtaining these needs adjusting for the sake of sanity.

This really wouldn't be that hard to improve - the simplest thing would just be to allow the same commander to scan the same data core each activation. The limiting factor here comes down to the number of Guardian Relics available to activate the data core. Raising the drop to a random 1-5 fragments per scan would also help.

The next, slightly more difficult change, would be to allow scanning Guardian Sentinels to provide blueprint fragments as well.

Between these things, this process of collecting would be greatly improved.