Repeat the same Guardian unlock 18 times? Really?

[tolm]

Some folks seem to be suggesting that the grind for Guardian weapons / Components can be completely avoided by simply not doing it ... in which case, I have one very simple question:

I want to be able to engage and enjoy the recently added Thargoid content. I want to be able to combat the Thargoids if they hyperdict me. I want to be able to investigate the Thargoid USSs with some degree of confidence that I can defend myself if whatever I find there is hostile.

So ... to the question ...

Can I - effectively - engage Thargoids in combat without the Guardian weapons and, if so, where IN THE GAME is it explained how to do this?

 

[Rafe Zetter]

If I wanted to play CQC I'd very likely start it from ED. I wouldn't install a separate launcher. I find it likely that the majority of players would do so alike.

Majority to the point that steam shows an average of less than 1 player PER MONTH? honestly man.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

Some folks seem to be suggesting that the grind for Guardian weapons / Components can be completely avoided by simply not doing it ... in which case, I have one very simple question:

I want to be able to engage and enjoy the recently added Thargoid content. I want to be able to combat the Thargoids if they hyperdict me. I want to be able to investigate the Thargoid USSs with some degree of confidence that I can defend myself if whatever I find there is hostile.

So ... to the question ...

Can I - effectively - engage Thargoids in combat without the Guardian weapons and, if so, where IN THE GAME is it explained how to do this?

Heads up Max - here's one for you as you keep saying players don't need them - explain.

Go >>>>>.

 

[Jex =TE=]

I have checked and edited my answers accordingly - you are correct - I had mistakenly attributed some posts you made with the post that you had quoted.

Apologies offered for my attributing those statements to you, which contravened others you yourself then made later.

I stand by the rest. - telling people not to do it isn't an aswer worth anything, as that's been proven to be an empty gesture. Believing that the action of "not doing engineering" was the reason it got changed is foolish and naive considerign the sheer numbers of posts complaining about the grind, the rng, the timesink, the mat drops, the repetitiveness, and every other fact of the engineering system as it was, and that's before you even get to the "god rolled" ships being able to kill players in open in UNDER 10 SECONDS.

There must be literally thousands and thousands of complaints about the previous iteration of engineers and everything that was attached to engineered ships.

Saying that FDev would make changes if people did more CqC, PP etc and then complained about it is a totally backwards argument - that must be obvious surely?

Do you think that argument works in any other form of businees in the world?

"this car sucks"

- Ok, I hear you. Tell you what - if you buy another one, we'll make the next one after that better, but only if you buy it.

"err no, how about you change it, and I'll make up my own mind whether to give you any more of my time and money, once I've seen it".

The phrase "one born every minute" comes to mind.



Guardian structures are lovely.

Getting the blueprint and stuffz is dull, repetitive and mindless.

FDev made it that way. by choice.

hows that?

People seem to forget that on the release of ENG's, everyone hated it so much it was changed off the bat with the excuse from FDev - yes, this is actually what they said or words to the effect of " we don't do MP games"

Changes were made to how much stuff you could store and then again a couple more times I think. So that was by people complaining who got FDev to make changes. The recent changes were because not enough players were bothering with Eng's and they had to get more people using it (this would be my guess) and people complained about it.

 

[Mengy]

To further elaborate on why I agree with Bob’s post:

• Travelling from system A to system B is not fun. – Hyperjump is a passive activity but one of the least problematic in the game, I feel this okay.
• Waiting for mission USS to spawn is not fun. – Terribly passive and unengaging. It would be so much better to use the scanner honk to ping for USS, resulting in several options to choose and investigate.
• Gathering materials in space not fun. – This is partly a victim of the crappy USS system. Improve USS and this consequently improves too. Planet mat hunting is acceptable currently IMHO. Data hunting needs improving big time.
• Some missions are not fun. – True. The mission system in general has many issues, both in mission availability and rewards. I’d like to see wing missions become shareable missions, with a wide enough range of outcomes to replace the solo missions of the same types, and to accommodate both solo and wing players with equal respect for their time. I’d also love to see some player agency in what mission types get generated, so players can better play the role they want to, instead of sifting through boards full of missions they aren’t interested in at all.
• Exploration is not fun except when you find a nice scenic view. – So very terribly true. Exploration needs an entire update or two devoted to it, at a minimum. It’s embarrassing that a game with a life size Milky Way has so very badly neglected exploration. FOR FOUR YEARS.
• Grinding ranks is not fun. – Correct. Although improving the rest of the game’s core activities would consequently improve rank grinding too.

At it’s root issue, too many activities in ED are passive and not active. There is too much RNG and not enough player agency. There are too many hurdles placed in the path of the player simply blocking them from playing the game. In many cases we are talking minor changes to mechanics, not sweeping revamps, which could drastically improve the situation.

 

[Skeloton]

At it’s root issue, too many activities in ED are passive and not active. There is too much RNG and not enough player agency. There are too many hurdles placed in the path of the player simply blocking them from playing the game. In many cases we are talking minor changes to mechanics, not sweeping revamps, which could drastically improve the situation.

This is exactly my problem with ED.

 

[Canoe]

So not a peep from the Design Team on this? Colour me surprised.

I'd like to see someone have the backbone to stand up and say "this is how I've designed it, intentionally, this is how it is." If that's the case, fine, we can move on to other more enjoyable pastimes.

 

[Genus]

So not a peep from the Design Team on this? Colour me surprised.

I'd like to see someone have the backbone to stand up and say "this is how I've designed it, intentionally, this is how it is." If that's the case, fine, we can move on to other more enjoyable pastimes.

I'm not sure if there was even a Livestream this week? Looks like everyone at FD have stuck their collective heads in the metaphorical hole.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I'm sorry you're not getting it. Is that my fault? Partly, but ONLY partly.

I'm harping on because you keep saying that "people don't need the weapons" in the meaning of "you don't need the weapons, you're inflicting the grind on yourself, so stop complaining" - am I wrong in that assessment?

- and I'm countering that with:

It doesn't bloody matter whether YOU think they need the weapons or not, they would like them, it adds a dimension and flavor to their experience - do they need them? No.

But like shoes, and BECAUSE it adds to their experience; they want them, but they don't want to have to go through mindlessly repetitive grind (that you yourself acknowledge) to get them.

They want to have the Guardian weapons JUST BECAUSE - and no other reason is required - what you personally think about that is wholly irrelevant, but one you keep projecting in the mistaken beleif it matters.

You're not happy either, I get that, but how you personally intend to deal with that is also irrelevant to everyone else but you.

For others posting in this thread "Not having them" is not an option they are willing to accept.

Just like shoes. They like pretties, they like shinies - they just don't want to feel like the organ grinders monkey to get them.

If you were a gay man or a woman I wouldn't even have to explain this - I keep forgetting most men are troglodytes - I should maybe use tools or cars or beer in my analogies instead.

You are wrong. I am complaining about the grind mechanic too. I hate it and think it's rubbish. I want it changed as I would like to create a ship with guardian items as well as everybody else.

But I will not subject myself yo that kind of self torture to get it. Even if I never get the stuff.

My time is precious. I would prefer FDev to change it and I really hope they do.

As to the people that grind it out already, I am just utterly suck of hearing about it and how FDev have forces this grind on them when they have not.

It is a choice as none of it is needed. Nothing to do with what shoes we are wearing.

I will not go through self inflicted torture to get a pair of Nike trainers no matter how much I want them.

We can get stuff which is as good or even better far easier.

But I do understand that people want these items, as I am in the same boat.

My biggest worry if people keep doing this grind then Fdev will see that people are engaging with it and may not change it.

We should also complain about the mechanic too and give better ways in which it could be achieved.

As to engineers, yes there was outcry on the forums, but Sandro also said that there were not as many engaging with it as they hoped.

They got the feedback from the forums as that is all they can do. And now engineers is in my view a much better experience. Not perfect and not how I would have done them in the first place.

Basically I have not done any of the guardian personal narrative and do not intend to until it gets changed.

And I hope others do the same. Complain on the forums and within the game.

 

[GTwannabe]

What a complete waste of time. Well good luck with your lame community goals and drip-feed "story" because I'm sitting at a Guardian site and don't have the patience to run the pylons more than once per day.

 

[ArrrmyTraininSir]

To further elaborate on why I agree with Bob’s post:

• Gathering materials in space not fun. – ... Planet mat hunting is acceptable currently IMHO. Data hunting needs improving big time.

I would like to see something similar to a prospecting limpit for space rings applied to surface prospecting. IE when you pick up a signal source, you're given an option to lock in on the wave signal to see what the material yield may be. Surely in the future this tech exists??? The current system is equivalent to panning for gold in some random creek.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You are wrong. I am complaining about the grind mechanic too. I hate it and think it's rubbish. I want it changed as I would like to create a ship with guardian items as well as everybody else.

But I will not subject myself yo that kind of self torture to get it. Even if I never get the stuff.

My time is precious. I would prefer FDev to change it and I really hope they do.

As to the people that grind it out already, I am just utterly suck of hearing about it and how FDev have forces this grind on them when they have not.

It is a choice as none of it is needed. Nothing to do with what shoes we are wearing.

I will not go through self inflicted torture to get a pair of Nike trainers no matter how much I want them.

We can get stuff which is as good or even better far easier.

But I do understand that people want these items, as I am in the same boat.

My biggest worry if people keep doing this grind then Fdev will see that people are engaging with it and may not change it.

We should also complain about the mechanic too and give better ways in which it could be achieved.

As to engineers, yes there was outcry on the forums, but Sandro also said that there were not as many engaging with it as they hoped.

They got the feedback from the forums as that is all they can do. And now engineers is in my view a much better experience. Not perfect and not how I would have done them in the first place.

Basically I have not done any of the guardian personal narrative and do not intend to until it gets changed.

And I hope others do the same. Complain on the forums and within the game.

Then what is the point of always saying 'you dont have to do it'. We know that. It is not some arcane insight that you shower on us. When people complain that people are getting shot in a park, it doesnt help to point out noone is forcing you to go to the park. We know that. Its still an issue. It would be much more helpful to say:"Yes, the unlock mechanic is pathetic and it must change."

That is useful feedback. Saying 'people dont need to do it' is not. It is just annoying.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Then what is the point of always saying 'you dont have to do it'. We know that. It is not some arcane insight that you shower on us. When people complain that people are getting shot in a park, it doesnt help to point out noone is forcing you to go to the park. We know that. Its still an issue. It would be much more helpful to say:"Yes, the unlock mechanic is pathetic and it must change."

That is useful feedback. Saying 'people dont need to do it' is not. It is just annoying.

Then people should stop doing it and then complain about it afterwards.

 

[Ian Skippy]

[/LIST]

I would like to see something similar to a prospecting limpit for space rings applied to surface prospecting. IE when you pick up a signal source, you're given an option to lock in on the wave signal to see what the material yield may be. Surely in the future this tech exists??? The current system is equivalent to panning for gold in some random creek.

While we are at it, get rid of the whole 'scanning USS" mechanic, as it is just slowing down and waiting. Heck, FD should spend a day making a list of every mechanic in the game, and underline each and every one of them that is just 'waiting' or 'hoping RNG blesses you'. Then either change them or, if that is not possible for some reason, flat-out remove them. If I am going to fly 10k LS, USS may actually be a sane part of my game if I would just get notified of the presence and type of USS. While we are at it, reduce the quanity of garbage USS and increase the range. So I sometimes get a message saying "awesome USS found, but you need to plot a detour and it could be dangerous. Your call cmdr."

You know, like every sensible sci-fi on earth does it. It sure beats our current system, which is basically:

Ship: "Cmdr, USS detected!"
Cmdr:"Ugh, you keep saying that every twenty seconds, and its boring crap 99% of time. Just shut up already."

The latter, while innovative, is not very much fun.

 

[Eldragon]

...

Pro-Tip: Don't feed the Trolls, especially trolls wearing white painted armor. Even-morso for trolls who don't actually play the game, just post about playing the game.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Then people should stop doing it and then complain about it afterwards.

Or, alternative, you could stop pretending you are somehow appointed to be the Ultimate Judge of what other people should do in a computer game, and instead discuss the criticism brought forward.

 

[ArrrmyTraininSir]

While we are at it, get rid of the whole 'scanning USS" mechanic, ...

Agreed. Given the nature of how prevalent the RNG is baked into the overall game, they could just randomly generate all the USS's upon system entry and then you look at your nav panel, filter by USS and pick and choose the ones you might want to investigate, but I realize this breaks some of their mission elements tied to USS's... I think FDEV has a sudden realization the walls are closing in and they've dug the hole too deep around RNG design.

 

[NeilF]

Agreed. Given the nature of how prevalent the RNG is baked into the overall game, they could just randomly generate all the USS's upon system entry and then you look at your nav panel, filter by USS and pick and choose the ones you might want to investigate, but I realize this breaks some of their mission elements tied to USS's... I think FDEV has a sudden realization the walls are closing in and they've dug the hole too deep around RNG design.

Even The Engineers just threw loads of unbalancing RNG combat elements into the game. You have a fight now, and you're just wondering what magic spell effects are being cast on you while you just try and have a nice balanced fight dictated by your combat choices, not what you or someone else did in outfitting a few days ago.

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

Majority to the point that steam shows an average of less than 1 player PER MONTH? honestly man.

If you think that's bad, I play on Xbox and was bored the other night so I started scrolling through achievements for ED.
I discovered only about 5% of players have used engineers.
Five percent.
Not sure how it is comparable to the other platforms, but it did strike me as ridiculously low for such a major content update.

 

[rrobes]

Add me to list of those not engaging in the Guardians. I see no joy in doing so (reading the requirements was what did it right off the bat).

I find that the use of Guardian weapons that now allows smalls to kill Thargoids a lessening of the game, they should be hard to kill. They will apparently become just another NPC.

Other game functions have also taken a turn to the grind, for me a lack of HGSS, plenty of degraded and encoded. You want the HG stuff? Trade up for it, right? Feel the grind.