Modes Restrict or remove PvE from the game, making Open a nicer place

How is PP dead?
One minute we are getting complaints no one is doing PP, then we are getting complaints because people in Solo are doing it - please pick one.

It does seem a little contradictory, but I'll answer.

In effect because you cannot have a direct effect on PP - i.e. it is controlled by BGS changes - it has stagnated entirely. When it started out, there were talks about what happens when a power loses all its systems for instance, and excitement about being able to progress the faction's advantages further out to other regions.

As it's become a BGS numbers competition, married with wrecking each others' powers from the inside, there's not much room for PP to do...well, anything really. All powers basically maintain a similar amount of space around their home, and that's that. You want a PSM, sign up to power and deliver leaflets. You want cheap ships, go over to LYR's space.

So PP itself is dead, and you have repetitive PvE activities that exist elsewhere anyway. If you actually like the idea of a power competition, or from a RP perspective believe in a power and want to progress them....LOLZ, good luck ;)

I'll tell you what, you can have PP locked to open, but PvP must be locked to Solo - okay?
Seems fair to me.

Heh, see, I told you that you give me the odd chuckle ;)


Seems selfish that one group wants exclusive content over another, too. But hey, let's not let facts stop us here, right?

So...point out the part of the proposal that was exclusive. It is the same, perhaps cycling/alternating objectives, with the single simple difference the results are counted differently for Open than PG/Solo.

There is no exclusivity. As always, there seems to be indignation at the simple thought of there being something for PvP players to do...


No one is forced to trade,
No one is forced to explorer,
No one is forced to fight.

Locking any content to PvP (or open), you're forcing people to fight when they don't want to fight.

Leave it in context though mate. Someone said PvP content isn't acceptable because some players wouldn't want to take part in it. Does that mean trading should be banned because someone doesn't like it, and won't take part in it?

As before...different players have different needs. I don't know why we have to pretend that isn't the case when it comes to discussing Open or PvP content.
 
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No one is forced to trade,
No one is forced to explorer,
No one is forced to fight.

Locking any content to PvP (or open), you're forcing people to fight when they don't want to fight.

They'll still be able to get the same influence from S/PG, Jockey
 
Leave it in context though mate. Someone said PvP content isn't acceptable because some players wouldn't want to take part in it. Does that mean trading should be banned because someone doesn't like it, and won't take part in it?

There is no "traders only" content, there is no "explorers only" content.
So why should there be "PvP only" content?

At the moment, every second of game play is open to everyone - regardless if they like it or will do it; it's there for everyone to play if they choose to play it.

Why should PvP'ers get locked content? You got CQC, you get open only content (competitions / Drews Salome story) - PvP'ers already have had more than everyone else.
 
There is no "traders only" content, there is no "explorers only" content.
So why should there be "PvP only" content?

At the moment, every second of game play is open to everyone - regardless if they like it or will do it; it's there for everyone to play if they choose to play it.

Why should PvP'ers get locked content? You got CQC, you get open only content (competitions / Drews Salome story) - PvP'ers already have had more than everyone else.

Well, you know- since they all hate CQC so much, it makes it OK to be even more selfish and restrict content to other people.
 
There is no "traders only" content, there is no "explorers only" content.
So why should there be "PvP only" content?

Errrrr...trading and exploring?

The two are certainly more exclusive to traders and explorers than said proposal would make PvP to PP. It wouldn't make it PvP-only in the slightest; it simply makes PvP relevant, not exclusive.

But thankyou for another laugh at that last comment. See, you do know how to be funny ;)


Well, you know- since they all hate CQC so much, it makes it OK to be even more selfish and restrict content to other people.

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We actually sorta just keep asking for NPCs to be added to CQC. Would ya look at that....we're trying to include you!
 
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We actually sorta just keep asking for NPCs to be added to CQC. Would ya look at that....we're trying to include you!

Uh, no - it's self-serving, because not everyone is interested in CQC, ergo PvP has already gotten one feature that not everyone enjoys/uses.
 
Uh, no - it's self-serving, because not everyone is interested in CQC, ergo PvP has already gotten one feature that not everyone enjoys/uses.

I have literally no idea if you had a point in that or were just making contradictory noise.

CQC is not even a part of ED itself to the extent it is sold as a standalone game. Its relevance to the ED galaxy is nonexistent, and very very arguably broken to the extent you may as well class it as no-one's content. Last time I tried, I left it open on the side for about an hour with no match; it absolutely needs some networking and logistic improvements.
 
I have literally no idea if you had a point in that or were just making contradictory noise.

CQC is not even a part of ED itself to the extent it is sold as a standalone game. Its relevance to the ED galaxy is nonexistent, and very very arguably broken to the extent you may as well class it as no-one's content. Last time I tried, I left it open on the side for about an hour with no match; it absolutely needs some networking and logistic improvements.

What playstyle was CQC designed for? I know for sure it wasn't PvE.

Therefore, PvE players have NO extra mode or feature that is exclusive to PvE only- all features that PvE players currently enjoy are EQUALLY available to everyone else. (PvP included)

You're having difficulty with this point because you're unable to grasp the concept of "exclusivity", apparently.
 

ALGOMATIC

Banned
You can never instance or even see everybody who may be undermining in PP regardless of the mode they play in. The way to stop undermining is to fortify without fortification the underminers(Think the UnderMiner from the Incredibles) will win. You can undermine or fortify from any mode. Killing other players give no merits at all (unless that has changed)

Because the murderhobos (not sure where that came from) are a small part of the PvPers and an even smaller part of all of open to give a blanket bonus to open is simply not justified. The only way it would be justified is on an individual basis when someone was actually interdicted/killed by another player.

I think adding things for both all modes all play styles is a great idea restricting is a bad idea.

If you kill the underminers, there will be noone to undermine, simple really. instance is a problem? not really since you never know who you will be instancing with which means you will have to come prepared for risks all the time.

Merits should be given for commander kill as well, just another proof how this feature is poorly implemented.

Again, I said it many times, if PVP has no effect on PP how come we have groups who actively avoid it and purposely undermine in PG/solo? *cough* Yuri Grom *cough*
 
See title.

What about having PvE in relegated areas? I mean it could be controversial, but aside from cries that "FD sold us a game that said I could blaze mah own trail!", it would be a fair riposte to players that want to bring Open mode down to the exact same level of Solo play.

So, what are the arguments for this? And it They can be summed up in a single word: Toxicity.

Toxicity is the bane for many games, and with PvP in any game, you get very high levels of toxicity generated by PvE players that are terrified of the idea of interacting with other human beings.

No, PvP isn't immune to toxicity, but it gets much worse when any discussion around it is instinctually invaded by pitchfork wielding knights on high horses.

Ok, having said all that, there are times PvE can be useful and fun, even for those who are predominantly...no sorry, I can't bring myself to finish this one.

Suggestions:

1) Restrict PvE only to private groups. Players that don't want PvP...oh wait, this is already working as intended :)

2) Create special zones where PvE players are safe from murder. It could be called "private group" or something.

3) Implement a system of PvE consent. All who want to PvE have to ask the NPC nicely, as it is not ethical to shoot an NPC that hasn't given his consent. The consent lasts until the NPC despawns, and circumventing this mechanic to shoot an NPC that hasn't given consent will have you labeled as a neckbeard sporting psycho.

Thankyou for your consideration xxx
PvE = SAFE MODE!
 

ALGOMATIC

Banned
What playstyle was CQC designed for? I know for sure it wasn't PvE.

Therefore, PvE players have NO extra mode or feature that is exclusive to PvE only- all features that PvE players currently enjoy are EQUALLY available to everyone else. (PvP included)

You're having difficulty with this point because you're unable to grasp the concept of "exclusivity", apparently.

CQC is trash of all trashes, you can have it for free and go farm npcs until you are blue in the face, nobody asked for this mini game that has nothing to do with ED. Time to remove it.
 
What playstyle was CQC designed for? I know for sure it wasn't PvE.

Therefore, PvE players have NO extra mode or feature that is exclusive to PvE only- all features that PvE players currently enjoy are EQUALLY available to everyone else. (PvP included)

You're having difficulty with this point because you're unable to grasp the concept of "exclusivity", apparently.

1) Irrelevant - it's not integrated with ED. It's sold as a standalone product. I can name a number of PvE exclusive titles but they have no power here.

2) At the moment, CQC is not even content for PvP players.

3) Please show me where trade requires PvP. Just because something can possibly be subject to PvP if you choose to play in Open, it does not make it PvP content. There is plenty of content that can be PvE only, and none in the game that can be PvP only. Now about the understanding of "exclusivity"...

4) While we're there, alt/f10 (and by extension reasonable exploration) is PG/Solo only. HIGH RES SCREENSHOTS ARE TOXIC :mad:

But of course, if you'd like to profess to the forum base that this game is PvP focused, please do. I am desperate to see that thread :D


PvE = SAFE MODE!

anchorman-i-dont-know-what.gif
 
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If you kill the underminers, there will be noone to undermine, simple really. instance is a problem? not really since you never know who you will be instancing with which means you will have to come prepared for risks all the time.

You can undermine from Solo.

Cheers, Phos.
 
1) Irrelevant - it's not integrated with ED. It's sold as a standalone product. I can name a number of PvE exclusive titles but they have no power here.

2) At the moment, CQC is not even content for PvP players.

1) Completely relevant- it's a mode designed for PvP gameplay. PvE is not necessary in order to participate in CQC.
2) Take it up with FDev, not PvE players. PvE players didn't introduce nor design it.

3) Please show me where trade requires PvP. Just because something can possibly be subject to PvP if you choose to play in Open, it does not make it PvP content. There is plenty of content that can be PvE only, and none in the game that can be PvP only. Now about the understanding of "exclusivity"...

3) Um, where did I say trade "requires PvP"? PvP players may also participate in trade, so it's not an "exclusive" to PvE players only.

4) While we're there, alt/f10 (and by extension reasonable exploration) is PG/Solo only. HIGH RES SCREENSHOTS ARE TOXIC :mad:

But of course, if you'd like to profess to the forum base that this game is PvP focused, please do. I am desperate to see that thread :D

4) You can use ALT-F10 as a PvP player, too. Please, explain to me how you're "restricted" from doing so.

I never professed that the forum base is PvP focused. What I did say is that CQC was introduced for PvP. And you know that I'm right here, you're just choosing to be obtuse.
 
See title.

What about having PvE in relegated areas? I mean it could be controversial, but aside from cries that "FD sold us a game that said I could blaze mah own trail!", it would be a fair riposte to players that want to bring Open mode down to the exact same level of Solo play.

So, what are the arguments for this? And it They can be summed up in a single word: Toxicity.

Toxicity is the bane for many games, and with PvP in any game, you get very high levels of toxicity generated by PvE players that are terrified of the idea of interacting with other human beings.

No, PvP isn't immune to toxicity, but it gets much worse when any discussion around it is instinctually invaded by pitchfork wielding knights on high horses.

Ok, having said all that, there are times PvE can be useful and fun, even for those who are predominantly...no sorry, I can't bring myself to finish this one.

Suggestions:

1) Restrict PvE only to private groups. Players that don't want PvP...oh wait, this is already working as intended :)

2) Create special zones where PvE players are safe from murder. It could be called "private group" or something.

3) Implement a system of PvE consent. All who want to PvE have to ask the NPC nicely, as it is not ethical to shoot an NPC that hasn't given his consent. The consent lasts until the NPC despawns, and circumventing this mechanic to shoot an NPC that hasn't given consent will have you labeled as a neckbeard sporting psycho.

Thankyou for your consideration xxx

You make the same mistake as many PVPers , you think you are a majority. PVE ruled online games , does rule online games and will rule online games. PVP is popular on arena orientated rank based games like League of Legends. Because people who play those game play them strictly for PVP and even in that game there are big limitation to the kind of PVP interaction they have.

You think Elite is bad now for PVP , wait till they start enforcing real limitation to it to make it more popular, I can guarantee to you , PVP players will be in this caged exclusion zones you talk about.

You dare restrict us PVE players free roam the game? We are going to leave the game, its that simple. PVE , stand for Player Vs the Enviroment, no PVE player likes a restricted enviroment ;)

I know a way to kill PVP in elite, make it rank based. Make it fair and you will see how many are the real PVP players and how many are just trolls. I can guarantee to you they are vastly outnumbered by PVE players.
 
4) You can use ALT-F10 as a PvP player, too. Please, explain to me how you're "restricted" from doing so.

I said "Pg/Solo" only. It's important to make a distinction between PvP/PvE, and PG/Solo. Two different areas of contention - related, but independent.

I never professed that the forum base is PvP focused. What I did say is that CQC was introduced for PvP. And you know that I'm right here, you're just choosing to be obtuse.

Not remotely true. I know very well the game CQC is PvP focused. I am saying I don't give a flying monkey about CQC, I am interested in ED :)

Alas I feel we are going to go in a roundabout from here, so unless ye have anything more productive, thankyou for your time.

You dare restrict us PVE players free roam the game?

Ah, when he finds out this is a parody thread...
 

ALGOMATIC

Banned
Again you cant stop everyone because you cant instance with everyone. Sure you can kill some of the underminers but not all of them especially if they are a larger group. If you cant grasp that its hopeless. And unless you have eyes on every other players computer and how they logged in its possible many of them are actually in open you just aren't instancing with them. I remember the undermining of SDC that happened a long time ago many of the commanders were actually flying in open because they thought it would be fun or for other "reasons" not everybody who is fighting against your power/faction is doing it from solo or pg.
PvP has some effect on slowing down the undermining, however unless you are actively fortifying you will loose regardless. Unless you can cover every instance on all platforms in all timezones there will be people you cant stop. PvP for a power (especially when others show up) can be fun and emergent (ymmv) but the need for the fortification is still what wins/looses the battle

Who said I am alone though, sure numbers help, but lets make a proper content where we play against each other, whats the point playing against a wall of PVE tokens, everyone undermines/fortifies in PG, where is the game play? where is interaction, where is the competition, skills?
 

Goose4291

Banned
How is PP dead?
One minute we are getting complaints no one is doing PP, then we are getting complaints because people in Solo are doing it - please pick one.

I'll tell you what, you can have PP locked to open, but PvP must be locked to Solo - okay?
Seems fair to me.

Nope. People like myself are saying Powerplay is dead due to the design making a PvP game mechanic where you can recuse yourself from getting involved in a PvP confrontation by hiding behind an impenetrable wall.

This is what we've been saying since about 3 months into the deployment of PP, as we saw the player interaction and fun it brought drop off due to the slow migration of its player base to the path of least resistance for meta reasons, and saw the emergence of the same horrid toxic environment we saw that the PF vs PF BGS whinefests had brought.
 
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