Modes Restrict or remove PvE from the game, making Open a nicer place

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

So why aren't you pitching this in the Powerplay section?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/159-Powerplay

Uhm ... murder is the main influence factor, selling exploration data per system is second I think, there was a thread about it recently.

Exploration Data works pretty dang good too. Short Range Passenger missions +++ are pretty dank though. And sometimes you can hit two birds with one stone. Data runs are my favorite cause you can stack those, take a small piece of cargo and you can run a tankier build if you wish to try and PVP a little. Not that anyone comes out of their hole....

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Because like everything else, it gets moved to modes of elite subforum. Because thats the main issue we are talking about here.

Be a doll and post it for me. Cause if I do it. It will just get moved.

And it has more to do than just powerplay. Its Player Factions too.

Yeah, I'm going to pitch an idea I am dead set against.

Threads aren't moved just because they are posted by you

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Yeah, I'm going to pitch an idea I am dead set against.

Threads aren't moved just because they are posted by you

I think it would still get moved cause of the main issue. I would however make a post about Player Kills meaning something for Powerplay with diminishing returns. Like specific issues with powerplay. Thats separate than the modes problem.

The modes problem in my eyes causes more grief than any griefer. And has separated the community. Instead of PVP, we have PVP vs PVE. When it should be PVP vs PVP. With some Pirating on the side.

Instead we have Ganks in PG's, Ganks at Sag A. PVP is almost shunned because it really holds no spot for objectives. All we have is good guys vs bad guys. Which can cause EVEN MORE toxicity between the two.

We do have an awesome PVP hub for people to learn, and GCI though. All player driven because there is no outlet. All because people can take the lesser path of resistance through those modes to effect others.

Its caused more trouble than what its worth.

Then we have these forums too. Which shows all that toxicity and proof in everything I said above. Do we really want it to stay this way? Its terrible. Not everyone wants to be a no good greifer, just like people dont want to be called carebears.

Fixing this would solve more problems that you would imagine.

And a lot of people can see this, while im sure there will be someone that argues this. And I have no Idea why...

 

[Mouse]

I think it would still get moved cause of the main issue. I would however make a post about Player Kills meaning something for Powerplay with diminishing returns. Like specific issues with powerplay. Thats separate than the modes problem.

The modes problem in my eyes causes more grief than any griefer. And has separated the community. Instead of PVP, we have PVP vs PVE. When it should be PVP vs PVP. With some Pirating on the side.

Instead we have Ganks in PG's, Ganks at Sag A. PVP is almost shunned because it really holds no spot for objectives. All we have is good guys vs bad guys. Which can cause EVEN MORE toxicity between the two.

We do have an awesome PVP hub for people to learn, and GCI though. All player driven because there is no outlet. All because people can take the lesser path of resistance through those modes to effect others.

Its caused more trouble than what its worth.

Then we have these forums too. Which shows all that toxicity and proof in everything I said above. Do we really want it to stay this way? Its terrible. Not everyone wants to be a no good greifer, just like people dont want to be called carebears.

Fixing this would solve more problems that you would imagine.

And a lot of people can see this, while im sure there will be someone that argues this. And I have no Idea why...

You blaming the modes for the actions of players... I'm sorry but no...

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

You blaming the modes for the actions of players... I'm sorry but no...

Yeah like I said, I dont know what Im talking about. Im just rambling on out of context. Writing these huge paragraphs explaining in detail whats actually going on. But youre right. Lets keep it the way it is now, Since everyone on both sides enjoys it so much.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yeah like I said, I dont know what Im talking about. Im just rambling on out of context. Writing these huge paragraphs explaining in detail whats actually going on. But youre right. Lets keep it the way it is now, Since everyone on both sides enjoys it so much.

I enjoy the modes very much thanks. It's a brilliant design.

But I already explained it in that other thread. And there were lots of people agreeing with that sentiment, so yeah, people are enjoying it very much

edit: I never played EvE, and I gather that EvE doesn't have this modes design, am I right?

 

[Jockey79]

Because like everything else, it gets moved to modes of elite subforum. Because thats the main issue we are talking about here.

Be a doll and post it for me. Cause if I do it. It will just get moved.

And it has more to do than just powerplay. Its Player Factions too.

I've given a few ideas on how to improve PP without touching the mode system, it's you lot who keep banging on about the modes and getting any suggestion moved.

There a loads of ways of improving PP, but it's not improvements you want, it's fish in your barrel.
Otherwise you' bein the PP section not banging on about the modes but pushing for actual PP improvements.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I enjoy the modes very much thanks. It's a brilliant design.

But I already explained it in that thread you felt obliged to troll. And there were lots of people agreeing with that sentiment, so yeah, people are enjoying it very much

You mean the one where people ended up agreeing with me and you ended up shutting it down? Far from trolling. Just speaking my mind like you do.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You mean the one where people ended up agreeing with me and you ended up shutting it down? Far from trolling. Just speaking my mind like you do.

Shall we tally up the score from that thread? And I closed it because it became a mirror image of all the others, oh yee of short memory.

I never played EvE, and I gather that EvE doesn't have this modes design, am I right?

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I enjoy the modes very much thanks. It's a brilliant design.

But I already explained it in that other thread. And there were lots of people agreeing with that sentiment, so yeah, people are enjoying it very much

edit: I never played EvE, and I gather that EvE doesn't have this modes design, am I right?

Never played EvE either. Have played objective control based games though. Where PVP was involved and gave it meaning. Instead of what we have now which 95% salt induced from either end.

 

[Jockey79]

I never played EvE, and I gather that EvE doesn't have this modes design, am I right?

It has 1 main shard the all players are on.
However, it gets so busy they have to have time dilation on all actions.

There was a famous fight that had so many people it took 16 hours real time, for what turned out to be about an hour in game time.

Not a model Elite could use, so we got instancing like other real time games have.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So I take it EvE doesn't have any ganking in it?

 

[Mouse]

So I take it EvE doesn't have any ganking in it?

Oh it does... I can tell you that from personal experience.

 

[Jockey79]

So I take it EvE doesn't have any ganking in it?

Loads.

You see seasoned veterans scooting about in starter systems in disposable ships that are equipped for insta kill of new players.
Some folks are not even past the undock animation when their ships will explode.

You also get people inviting you into groups / guilds then blowing you up - as this used to bypass all police response (not sure if it still does), as it is "friends play fighting or training".
So you cannot accept any request to be a friend / wing mate / guild mate.

Some folks have loaded up the PvE dungeons and gone in, then made bookmarks in their Nav Comp for half way through - then hang around the start watching who goes through it (as even dungeons are part of the main shard).
Once they see a target they want to blow up (so weaker ships going in), they can warp to the bookmark and gank them while they are engaged with NPCs and get out again before the police response.

 

[StiTch]

And I love it when someone tries to blow smoke up my skirt. Those of you who think you know everything get on the nerves of those of us who do. jk/jk

Tried blowing smoke up my own skirt once. It took quite a bit of effort and I didn't know I could bend that far (puntended), but when I was done...I realised I'd forgotten the skirt.

Anyone got spares? I could make Stitch look really snazzy...

Well personally I base it on the myriad of BGS wars Ive been party to where the group standing order is 'go into solo and wreck that other player groups sandcastle' and the 'if youre going to play for this power, min/max your potential by doing it from solo/private' discussions on various powerplay discords.

Thats why I know (i) their motive and (ii) that theyre doing it. Because Ive experienced it first hand.

Whether or not people get indignant at the thought of Open actually being relevant, denying that PG/Solo is actively used to play the system, rather than because it's their inherent game mode, is just shameless lying.

Loads.

You see seasoned veterans scooting about in starter systems in disposable ships that are equipped for insta kill of new players.
Some folks are not even past the undock animation when their ships will explode.

You also get people inviting you into groups / guilds then blowing you up - as this used to bypass all police response (not sure if it still does), as it is "friends play fighting or training".
So you cannot accept any request to be a friend / wing mate / guild mate.

Some folks have loaded up the PvE dungeons and gone in, then made bookmarks in their Nav Comp for half way through - then hang around the start watching who goes through it (as even dungeons are part of the main shard).
Once they see a target they want to blow up (so weaker ships going in), they can warp to the bookmark and gank them while they are engaged with NPCs and get out again before the police response.

Sounds like EVE needs some serious C&P...

Sandro! You are needed elsewhere!

I promise Bran and I won't stage a takeover...


Seriously, if anyone finds an ED-like game that doesn't drag its concepts to extremes - e.g. doesn't insist players are all part of the same galaxy though the definitely aren't, and doesn't pretend it'd be normal for cops to be useless as sponges - please let me know where I can find it.

 

[Jockey79]

Seriously, if anyone finds an ED-like game that doesn't drag its concepts to extremes - e.g. doesn't insist players are all part of the same galaxy though the definitely aren't, and doesn't pretend it'd be normal for cops to be useless as sponges - please let me know where I can find it.

Have you looked at Star Cit.....

nope, laughing too hard, cannot finish that

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Never played EvE either. Have played objective control based games though. Where PVP was involved and gave it meaning. Instead of what we have now which 95% salt induced from either end.

The problem, son, is that Elite isn't a PvP game. It has PvP but it is a minute part of it and an endgame activity, you know that better than me.

So I take it EvE doesn't have any ganking in it?

It problaby is the most dangerous game in that regard.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Whether or not people get indignant at the thought of Open actually being relevant, denying that PG/Solo is actively used to play the system, rather than because it's their inherent game mode, is just shameless lying.

I think people don't deny that fact, they just tell you it isn't an unintended consecuence, thus working as intended.

Sounds like EVE needs some serious C&P...

For the little I know, they have a police strong enough to easly blow up titans, albeit in High Sec systems and in 15 secs.

Seriously, if anyone finds an ED-like game that doesn't drag its concepts to extremes - e.g. doesn't insist players are all part of the same galaxy though the definitely aren't, and doesn't pretend it'd be normal for cops to be useless as sponges - please let me know where I can find it.

That shows you didn't read the details of your purchase.

 

[Vasious]

See title.

What about having PvE in relegated areas? I mean it could be controversial, but aside from cries that "FD sold us a game that said I could blaze mah own trail!", it would be a fair riposte to players that want to bring Open mode down to the exact same level of Solo play.

So, what are the arguments for this? And it They can be summed up in a single word: Toxicity.

Toxicity is the bane for many games, and with PvP in any game, you get very high levels of toxicity generated by PvE players that are terrified of the idea of interacting with other human beings.

No, PvP isn't immune to toxicity, but it gets much worse when any discussion around it is instinctually invaded by pitchfork wielding knights on high horses.

Ok, having said all that, there are times PvE can be useful and fun, even for those who are predominantly...no sorry, I can't bring myself to finish this one.

Suggestions:

1) Restrict PvE only to private groups. Players that don't want PvP...oh wait, this is already working as intended

2) Create special zones where PvE players are safe from murder. It could be called "private group" or something.

3) Implement a system of PvE consent. All who want to PvE have to ask the NPC nicely, as it is not ethical to shoot an NPC that hasn't given his consent. The consent lasts until the NPC despawns, and circumventing this mechanic to shoot an NPC that hasn't given consent will have you labeled as a neckbeard sporting psycho.

Thankyou for your consideration xxx

Isnt that Already the Case, special zones with consent

PvE Zones are USS, RES, Nav Beacons, planetary installations (ie the non spaceport ones for missions) Space Installations and Conflict Zones

You have to scan wanted ships or it is a crime, even if they are being shot by the police for being wanted

In CZs you have to opt in and pick a side

I write this as I am waiting for a bounty to expire
An NPC Pirate interdicted me, and I dropped mines only for the System Security ships to drop in from SC right into the mines and make ME the criminal.
Clearly not ethical PvE behaviour on my part as I wasn't in an approved zone and didn't get consent before dropping my mines...

 

[Mouse]

For the little I know, they have a police strong enough to easly blow up titans, albeit in High Sec systems and in 15 secs.

They got around that by making disposable ships that they could lose and pouncing. I was caught as I approached the jumpgate in highsec.. they blew my mastodon (or mammoth it has been a while) to heck, then as security forces rushed in and took them on their friend in another transport came in and picked up all my cargo. I was thanked and then podded. Uninstalled right after.