Returning player, suggestions

[SteveWW57]

While everything you said is on the money, I think the suggestion wasn't to mess with the jump range. It was to magically skip 6 of the 7 jumps and just arrive at your route's destination instantly. Like: If I can route, let me skip to the end.

Edit: That would, of course, also mean that the one-tank-to-Colonia Anaconda would be able to travel there instantly. Which is even more ludicrous.

I have changed my mind. Ludicrous or not, what's not to like .....

However, back to reality. If such a jump proposal was enacted, the time to get to the destination would have to still be there, and the player would have to be logged in. And if the OP is against super cruise times, sitting back and waiting whilst the ship jumps to a destination is another non starter.

In some ways, reducing jump/super cruise times is a bit like speed running Sidewinder to Anaconda in a few hours. All those experiences along the way lost.

Steve

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Provided you are not using SC assist, and manage not to pass any gravity wells, maybe...
But as soon as you start to slow when approaching your destination, or passing by any body (or astreriod belt), this statement may not be entirely incorrect.

I think the goid interdictions don't follow the "I'm too fast for you to inderdict me" rule anyway.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

During really long supercruise journeys, nothing can happen. You're too fast for somebody to interdict you.

Does the server know that? I doubt the server would care. They have their own logic.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I have changed my mind. Ludicrous or not, what's not to like .....

However, back to reality. If such a jump proposal was enacted, the time to get to the destination would have to still be there, and the player would have to be logged in. And if the OP is against super cruise times, sitting back and waiting whilst the ship jumps to a destination is another non starter.

In some ways, reducing jump/super cruise times is a bit like speed running Sidewinder to Anaconda in a few hours. All those experiences along the way lost.

Steve

Why not just move to whole game to spreadsheets with pretty pictures. All this game time wasted...

 

[SteveWW57]

Why not just move to whole game to spreadsheets with pretty pictures. All this game time wasted...

Agreed, I think that the OP's suggestion is a retrograde step. Think how much games have moved on. Remember the text based games where you were given the situation and several choices, which led to another situation?

Steve

 

[zimms]

Provided you are not using SC assist, and manage not to pass any gravity wells, maybe...
But as soon as you start to slow when approaching your destination, or passing by any body (or astreriod belt), this statement may not be entirely incorrect.

Yes, it's not 100%, but close enough if you know the game.

I think the goid interdictions don't follow the "I'm too fast for you to inderdict me" rule anyway.

They can't be avoided any way. But given the billions of star systems in the game, the possibility of Thargoid presence is negligible.

Does the server know that? I doubt the server would care. They have their own logic.

Do you mean in case of a disconnect? Nothing will happen to your ship and you'd get disconnected just the same if you were not afk.


Still, when going to Hutton for example I have no worries to leave and watch (most of) a football game. Because I know I'll be fine.

Nitpicking aside, I think it's fair feedback to say for very long supercruise travels there's too much time that doesn't require any interaction whatsoever.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Yes, it's not 100%, but close enough if you know the game.

They can't be avoided any way. But given the billions of star systems in the game, the possibility of Thargoid presence is negligible.

Do you mean in case of a disconnect? Nothing will happen to your ship and you'd get disconnected just the same if you were not afk.


Still, when going to Hutton for example I have no worries to leave and watch (most of) a football game. Because I know I'll be fine.

Nitpicking aside, I think it's fair feedback to say for very long supercruise travels there's too much time that doesn't require any interaction whatsoever.

On a true disconnect. But if it's just a hickup the server might think you are already in a danger zone when your client thinks otherwise. And the server overules clients, I think.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Nitpicking aside, I think it's fair feedback to say for very long supercruise travels there's too much time that doesn't require any interaction whatsoever.

And similarly (Thargoid Scythes aside in certain circumstances, and look how controversial that's been) for long multi-system jumps there's not much difference between "one system away" and "ten systems away" except that it takes ten times longer and you need to steer around a few stars.

Still, if the Scythe (and to a lesser extent the big difference between a 100 Ls and 100 kLs station in a Thargoid-occupied system) are signs of Frontier generally moving in a direction of "what if we gave the player some reason not to alt-tab away while travelling", that's going to be much better in the long run that "what if we removed travel" suggestions could get.

 

[Jack Winter]

The problem with this is that fuel usage goes up much faster than linearly as you approach your maximum single-hop range.

So for example, an Anaconda with an unengineered 6A FSD will use 8t of fuel to go (depending on exact loadout), say 20 LY.
The same Anaconda will only use 2t of fuel to go 12 LY. So if it made the jumps 12 LY at a time between A and B, 8t of fuel would let it jump 48 LY rather than 20 LY.
This can get even more efficient - using 0.1t of fuel at a time it could jump 3.8 LY, so doing that 80 times would get it a full 304 LY for the same 8t of fuel.

As a result - it's been done! - with an engineered FSD and optional internals full of extra fuel tanks, it's possible for an Anaconda to get from the bubble to Colonia without needing a fuel scoop or other mid-way refuelling.

Conversely, if you gave the same Anaconda the ability to use its entire 32t standard fuel tank at once, it'd only get 35 LY, which isn't even two jumps.

So, given this unengineered Anaconda, what range are you suggesting it should have with a "use all fuel at once" jump, on a standard 32t tank?
- 35 LY, which is what it could get if it wasn't restricted to 8t per jump?
- approximately 80 LY, which is roughly how far it would get on 4 "fastest routing" jumps?
- approximately 320 LY, which is roughly how far it could get on 32 "1t" jumps given normal star separation in the bubble?
- approximately 1000 LY, which is roughly how far it could get on 320 "0.1t" jumps given sufficiently close stars as you might get near the core?
(Engineered would approximately double this as well as making the 0.1t jumps plausible in a good amount of the bubble)

(Only the first of those is a "change one number" tweak, by the way; max fuel per jump is a property of FSDs, whereas "jump my entire plotted route at once until out of fuel" would need a bit more work)

Not to mention what would happen with the APEX logic.. I'm pretty sure the change would take more than a day's work for several devs, and remove gameplay complexity while making the game blander and less interesting. This is a common problem of these simple improvement suggestions, be they from a developer or just a simple gamer.

 

[O'Roarke]

There's next to no chance that Elite will get the quick gameplay that Rust has, and the OP craves.

The time requirements that the OP laments are there by design -- in order to chip away at them with skill, experience, and knowledge.
That's why all sorts of folks jumped in on the thread helping you, z33r0x, with knowledge of all the tricks.

There might be stuff that Rust has and Elite will get Soon™, Update 17 later this year, but faster travel seems unlikely.

 

[RolloTreadway]

Hello everyone, been a long time since I played Elite dangerous, years in fact, I noticed even after all these years, the game still don't respect your time. There is still a lot of issues with the game.

First of all, this game needs some serious quality of life. Traveling is still very tedious and doesn't feel good, at all.

A few suggestions, is to improve this game by a lot thatl doesn't require that much work. I was a developer and programmer myself I know for a fact that these changes can be made within a day.

Super cruise, needs to have WAY higher acceleration and faster deacceleration, to travel systems more fluid, sitting and looking at a timer for minutes on end is not fun.

When it comes to interstellar travel, make so that the jump distance is using the Frameshift drive AND the fuel to calculate the distance you can jump. For instance, if you have fuel to make a destination that requires 7 jumps, make it so you just need to make 1 jump to end up at that 7 jump distance, but deplete all the fuel for that distance in one go. And allow us to plot our route, for an example certain stops to fuel at suns or refuel a long the way.

Able to pay your fines and bounties easier.

Useful lesson: if your suggestion involves 'change something that's been a fundamental game mechanism since day one, and that regular players are perfectly happy with', there's really not much point typing it.

 

[Highlander71]

Hello everyone, been a long time since I played Elite dangerous, years in fact, I noticed even after all these years, the game still don't respect your time. There is still a lot of issues with the game.

First of all, this game needs some serious quality of life. Traveling is still very tedious and doesn't feel good, at all.

A few suggestions, is to improve this game by a lot thatl doesn't require that much work. I was a developer and programmer myself I know for a fact that these changes can be made within a day.

Super cruise, needs to have WAY higher acceleration and faster deacceleration, to travel systems more fluid, sitting and looking at a timer for minutes on end is not fun.

When it comes to interstellar travel, make so that the jump distance is using the Frameshift drive AND the fuel to calculate the distance you can jump. For instance, if you have fuel to make a destination that requires 7 jumps, make it so you just need to make 1 jump to end up at that 7 jump distance, but deplete all the fuel for that distance in one go. And allow us to plot our route, for an example certain stops to fuel at suns or refuel a long the way.

Able to pay your fines and bounties easier.

I am a programmer as well. You could make the ship eat pellets and chase ghosts within a day too. Do you know what? I think Frontier may have intended travel to work like it does because the game is and has always been a SIMULATION, not an arcade game. Even the original from the 1980's was a simulation.
The game "doesn't respect your time" because reality doesn't. Have you ever travelled in real life? Takes a long time...no respect.

Maybe play something else, this game is not for you unless you can surrender to the reality of simulation games in general.

 

[MottiKhan]

Hello everyone, been a long time since I played Elite dangerous, years in fact, I noticed even after all these years, the game still don't respect your time. There is still a lot of issues with the game.

First of all, this game needs some serious quality of life. Traveling is still very tedious and doesn't feel good, at all.

A few suggestions, is to improve this game by a lot thatl doesn't require that much work. I was a developer and programmer myself I know for a fact that these changes can be made within a day.

Super cruise, needs to have WAY higher acceleration and faster deacceleration, to travel systems more fluid, sitting and looking at a timer for minutes on end is not fun.

When it comes to interstellar travel, make so that the jump distance is using the Frameshift drive AND the fuel to calculate the distance you can jump. For instance, if you have fuel to make a destination that requires 7 jumps, make it so you just need to make 1 jump to end up at that 7 jump distance, but deplete all the fuel for that distance in one go. And allow us to plot our route, for an example certain stops to fuel at suns or refuel a long the way.

Able to pay your fines and bounties easier.

Also a programmer here. For over 30 years. As you say, yes, it could be done in a day. But just because it can, that doesn't mean it shoud.

First, there's a balance to the game that you should appreciate as a programmer. It takes more skill than you have to reach that balance.

Also, you need continuity of programming so you don't introduce new bugs or reintroduce old ones when you do a "minor" change. I've seen old bugs come back on every single update, so we don't have that here.

Still, it's a good game and we shouldn't try to mold it to one individual's liking to the detriment of almost all others.

Play the game you're given or move on.

<edit> spelling </edit>

 

[Greasetrap42]

Possibly the OP's actual criticism is the quantities of time the player must sit idle while waiting.

I do not agree with simply eliminating travel time. Or fast travel. I am an advocate of changing the game so the player can be doing something engaging during travel rather than watching TV or task swapping to something else.

When entering/exiting supercruise, snapping menus & maps closed is awful, making doing anything ingame while waiting for the jump sequence frustrating. And locking players out of any game activity while onbaord a fleet carrier during the jump sequence is terrible.

The game should be capable of loading the next instance while letting the player do something. And give players something to do during supercruise.

 

[Jack Winter]

I normally go get another beer or alt-tab while waiting for the travel to finish, it's driving me to drink (and to become a forum dad / white knight)!

 

[Highlander71]

Also, you need continuity of programming so you don't introduce new bugs or reintroduce old ones when you do a "minor" change. I've seen old bugs come back on every single update, so we don't have that here.

Hear, hear. Many things can be "done" in a day, but some programmers forget design, writing tests, unit testing, regression testing. After a while you learn that hardly anything substantial really gets done properly in a single day.

 

[Rockets]

I am skeptical that FDev could even schedule a meeting to talk about a meeting for any of those changes inside of a week let alone a day lol

I never had an issue with how fast we go personally.
Some of the pointless stuff and places that you have to travel to just to get even semi decent laser beams has already taken me over 500 hours and counting.

 

[Maxx Thorogood]

Aha - a "travel is too slow" thread - must be ages since we had one.


(Six years since the OP last proposed this, no growth there then.)

Another "a "_______" thread" comment it certainly has not been ages since we had one of those.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

The game should be capable of loading the next instance while letting the player do something. And give players something to do during supercruise.

Agreed. All it needs, I think - and I say "all", it's not going to be a small thing to code - is the ability to access some station services remotely.
- view market prices before you dock, maybe change course to another station if those look better (all previous Elite games had this ability once you'd got in-system)
- hand-in missions which don't require physical presence (most of the combat ones, some of the exploration ones, quite a few of the on-foot ones)
- take missions which don't require physical presence (the above, some more of the on-foot ones, plus any trade mission with a depot feature)
- browse the other missions on offer but not take them
- view local station news (not that there's usually a lot there, but still, it's something to read)
- browse but not use outfitting and shipyard
- set up ship and module transfers to a station
- potentially more controversial but you can already do these without any in-system risk by using Apex shutles: hand in bounty vouchers, combat bonds, exploration data ... or pay fines or use IF services to clear bounties

Some of these could require a particular reputation level with the station controller or the mission giver, all should of course be unavailable at Hostile.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Agreed. All it needs, I think - and I say "all", it's not going to be a small thing to code - is the ability to access some station services remotely.
- view market prices before you dock, maybe change course to another station if those look better (all previous Elite games had this ability once you'd got in-system)
- hand-in missions which don't require physical presence (most of the combat ones, some of the exploration ones, quite a few of the on-foot ones)
- take missions which don't require physical presence (the above, some more of the on-foot ones, plus any trade mission with a depot feature)
- browse the other missions on offer but not take them
- view local station news (not that there's usually a lot there, but still, it's something to read)
- browse but not use outfitting and shipyard
- set up ship and module transfers to a station
- potentially more controversial but you can already do these without any in-system risk by using Apex shutles: hand in bounty vouchers, combat bonds, exploration data ... or pay fines or use IF services to clear bounties

Some of these could require a particular reputation level with the station controller or the mission giver, all should of course be unavailable at Hostile.

Not happening, player time is a measure of success for the company and all the little time eaters are there deliberately: To inflate the time players spend in the MP.