Reviving the discussion about manipulating in-cockpit controls with VR controllers in Elite

I was more refering to a X-Rebirth style approach as spoken about in this thread - you are NOT going to get fully supported motion controls with virtual hands in Elite any time soon if ever. You need to accept that and look at either using one of the supported control setups which offers the immersion you crave or what you can accomplish yourself if you are so intent on using motion control.

Ah, I see. First I'd need to play X Rebirth VR to see how I feel about it and how the controls work to see if it's possible to make them work in ED as a 3rd party tool.

However I can already think of one problem. The menus in X Rebirth VR appear to be laser pointer based. The control scheme doesn't seem to have any affordance for trackpad/joystick based menu inputs. Which is going to make figuring out how to control holo panels messy if at all possible.
 
Quite coincidentally I whipped up an overlay program to let me use motion controllers in ED this weekend. I did something similar for SkyrimVR to add a VR quick belt which is what gave me the idea. Currently it has a virtual joystick and throttle, a bunch of floating positionable "holobuttons" for various controls as well as mapping the motion controller buttons to various inputs (these change depending on if you're holding the virtual controls or not). It works by sending inputs to a virtual joystick device.

Just finished the first lengthy play test session and I have to say it's working very well, everything is mapped and accessible in game through the virtual controls, flight control was good and the whole experience was really enjoyable. Little things like reach over my head to flip the landing gear button feels absurdly immersive for some reason. Also despite having not played ED in years having every control clearly available made life so much easier rather than having to remember umpteen different button mappings/keyboard shortcuts. There are a few rough edges that need smoothing out and I've a few ideas for better inputs for things like the galaxy map. Plus I want to try a VTOL style joystick rather than the current grab it like the motion controller is your hand system I'm currently using.

Will happily make it available if people are interested. when I've had a chance to clean it up.
 
Quite coincidentally I whipped up an overlay program to let me use motion controllers in ED this weekend. I did something similar for SkyrimVR to add a VR quick belt which is what gave me the idea. Currently it has a virtual joystick and throttle, a bunch of floating positionable "holobuttons" for various controls as well as mapping the motion controller buttons to various inputs (these change depending on if you're holding the virtual controls or not). It works by sending inputs to a virtual joystick device.

Just finished the first lengthy play test session and I have to say it's working very well, everything is mapped and accessible in game through the virtual controls, flight control was good and the whole experience was really enjoyable. Little things like reach over my head to flip the landing gear button feels absurdly immersive for some reason. Also despite having not played ED in years having every control clearly available made life so much easier rather than having to remember umpteen different button mappings/keyboard shortcuts. There are a few rough edges that need smoothing out and I've a few ideas for better inputs for things like the galaxy map. Plus I want to try a VTOL style joystick rather than the current grab it like the motion controller is your hand system I'm currently using.

Will happily make it available if people are interested. when I've had a chance to clean it up.

Yes. Especially if you can open source it so I can submit changes to the code. I was just thinking about trying to make some experimental controls, just to test things out. Even if there were limits like needing to manually switch control schemes. But if someones already started out, it would be much more reasonable to try adding anything I want to try implementing into the same software, instead of creating multiple implementations and everyone having to implement basics (like making fake inputs) when that's already been taken care of.
 
Side note. Since FDev only pays attention to the Suggestions&Features Request forum and their staff point people there, I've made a separate topic in there. Just so there's an organized topic for the feature request, should FDev ever notice it and consider either putting a bit of work into it or making it possible for 3rd parties to tweak the game enough to make it work.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/441848-Various-tracking-based-VR-control-schemes
 
LOL - that's a bigger ask than what you were originally asking for!!! [big grin]
Heh, I wasn't actually referring to letting 3rd parties fix the whole game, just the controls. I was just referring to them doing one of:
A) Allowing part of the community with programming experience to submit code changes to add controls / fix non-gameplay bugs. Remember when I replied to one of your posts with, "Likewise I'd happily agree to this being a feature that FDEV does 0 work on and making it work is up to the community that does want it. But I've never heard of FDEV allowing the community to work on functionality and integrating it back into the game."
B) Not bothering to actually implement any of this and instead telling people to implement alt controls as external applications, but co-operating and adding a new API that exposes enough information to subscribe to and game overrides to make this possible i.e. Allow an application to get 3d positions and dimensions of panels, current category/selection info, info on what is displayed where on panels, current throttle state and 3d position, current joystick 3d position, current VR coordinates to Elite cockpit coordinates transform, an event when that position is reset, info when the galaxy/system map and menus are open, 3d positions of menu items/etc, input scale information for maps, the ability to enable/disable arm animations and override the hand position and finger bones pose, and the ability to render very simple 3d (or just 2d) models in-game (It could just use SteamVR Overlays, but then the controls wouldn't work for rift users). This probably involves only a small fraction of the work actually implementing controls would be.

I'd actually be perfectly happy if they just chose to do B. I just tried setting up VoiceAttack with the HCS voice packs yesterday, and there are a number of bugs in it that come from lack of game info that B would solve. i.e. Doing B would make it possible to make great VR controls and also make non-VR specific voice controls and tablet panels much better.

Actually, when I talked about various holo panel metadata. I was only thinking of enough information on positions, rectangles, and selections to make a laser pointer or touch selection work. But if they went all the way and actually gave full information on the panel's current display. I could imagine some non-VR simmers with special rigs would write mobile apps that would let them place a tablet on each side of them and would replicate the entire left and right panel display contents.
 
Heh, I wasn't actually referring to letting 3rd parties fix the whole game, just the controls. I was just referring to them doing one of:
A) Allowing part of the community with programming experience to submit code changes to add controls / fix non-gameplay bugs. Remember when I replied to one of your posts with, "Likewise I'd happily agree to this being a feature that FDEV does 0 work on and making it work is up to the community that does want it. But I've never heard of FDEV allowing the community to work on functionality and integrating it back into the game."
B) Not bothering to actually implement any of this and instead telling people to implement alt controls as external applications, but co-operating and adding a new API that exposes enough information to subscribe to and game overrides to make this possible i.e. Allow an application to get 3d positions and dimensions of panels, current category/selection info, info on what is displayed where on panels, current throttle state and 3d position, current joystick 3d position, current VR coordinates to Elite cockpit coordinates transform, an event when that position is reset, info when the galaxy/system map and menus are open, 3d positions of menu items/etc, input scale information for maps, the ability to enable/disable arm animations and override the hand position and finger bones pose, and the ability to render very simple 3d (or just 2d) models in-game (It could just use SteamVR Overlays, but then the controls wouldn't work for rift users). This probably involves only a small fraction of the work actually implementing controls would be.

I'd actually be perfectly happy if they just chose to do B. I just tried setting up VoiceAttack with the HCS voice packs yesterday, and there are a number of bugs in it that come from lack of game info that B would solve. i.e. Doing B would make it possible to make great VR controls and also make non-VR specific voice controls and tablet panels much better.

Actually, when I talked about various holo panel metadata. I was only thinking of enough information on positions, rectangles, and selections to make a laser pointer or touch selection work. But if they went all the way and actually gave full information on the panel's current display. I could imagine some non-VR simmers with special rigs would write mobile apps that would let them place a tablet on each side of them and would replicate the entire left and right panel display contents.

LOL - your head is really in the clouds man. FDEV are not letting you or anyone near the game! No matter how small or how big the change you want to make.

Telementry data was first requested in this thread:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/99437-External-API-Requirements-Thread

Note the date - 2015.....

Honestly mate I really don't think you know much about how FDEV operate when it comes to Elite. Essentially VR is pretty much stagnent, nothing will change with its current implimentation. For example we've been asking for a curved commodities screen for years and still don't have it.
 
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Seems to be a few folk here who don't like the idea of someone creating something different to enable others to be as good as what they are in old school familiar ways...

...bring on the VR visionaries and all the ideas and work-arounds they have,

the boring present reality of a plastic joysticks and cumbersome programmable buttons are so.. then

but with VR there are possibilities...

even now (-:
 
There are definitely people who like to naysay VR - just read reviews from places like PCGamer for example, who always seem to feel the need to remind us VR hasn't been the 'hit' "people" were expecting... It infuriates me, because VR for the consumer has only been available for just over 2 years- AAA games take longer than that to code...

Anyway, unfortunately, when it comes to ED, it's core development cycle has definitely ended, meaning no more development for the game engine - including controls and VR. What you see is all you'll get, especially as they've explicitly blocked off telemetry and anything that could be used to 'mod' the game in any way.

Think of ED as a preview of what's to come from other similar games. (except SC of course...)
 
There are definitely people who like to naysay VR - just read reviews from places like PCGamer for example, who always seem to feel the need to remind us VR hasn't been the 'hit' "people" were expecting... It infuriates me, because VR for the consumer has only been available for just over 2 years- AAA games take longer than that to code...

Anyway, unfortunately, when it comes to ED, it's core development cycle has definitely ended, meaning no more development for the game engine - including controls and VR. What you see is all you'll get, especially as they've explicitly blocked off telemetry and anything that could be used to 'mod' the game in any way.

Think of ED as a preview of what's to come from other similar games. (except SC of course...)

No more development for the game engine, controls and VR? Do you have a source of FDev officially stating this, or are these your own guesses?
 
Hi
Sorry to bring this up again but I haven't played the game for several months and would like to know if anything been done in relation to controlling galaxy map and system map when using oculus?
 
Hi
Sorry to bring this up again but I haven't played the game for several months and would like to know if anything been done in relation to controlling galaxy map and system map when using oculus?

Nothing by Frontier.

If you want galaxy map controls show some support for this feature request:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/441848-Various-tracking-based-VR-control-schemes

I'm also working on an overlay, but it's SteamVR and doesn't have galaxy map controls yet.
 
Hi
Sorry to bring this up again but I haven't played the game for several months and would like to know if anything been done in relation to controlling galaxy map and system map when using oculus?

For the thousand time, the galaxy map is fine when using a controller. Mouse is right out ;-) Google that, forum-search that, educate yourself on the matter. You're probably using hotas anyway... System map is a bit worse but when zoomed out it can be traversed fast enough. Bindings for reference https://edrefcard.info/binds/ygfhri

And no, no progress on virtual controls whatsoever.
 
Nothing by Frontier.

If you want galaxy map controls show some support for this feature request:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/441848-Various-tracking-based-VR-control-schemes

I'm also working on an overlay, but it's SteamVR and doesn't have galaxy map controls yet.

Support added :)

I don't want overlays I already have TCE and it always gets messed with overlays, I use ASTRA and I find it cool and easy to use pity it doesn't control the maps
 
For the thousand time, the galaxy map is fine when using a controller. Mouse is right out ;-) Google that, forum-search that, educate yourself on the matter. You're probably using hotas anyway... System map is a bit worse but when zoomed out it can be traversed fast enough. Bindings for reference https://edrefcard.info/binds/ygfhri

And no, no progress on virtual controls whatsoever.

I'll google for it thank you

Feel like playing ED again my ships must be full of dust and space webs, that is if they're still there
 
I'll google for it thank you
Feel like playing ED again my ships must be full of dust and space webs, that is if they're still there

Mine are also dusty, a year in hangar and counting. Also: didn't want to sound rude - here's the original vid, which explains the concept nicely. [video=youtube;v5jG1w_YkDY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5jG1w_YkDY[/video]
TL; DW: there is a "snapping" mechanism when using controller which helps a lot.
 
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