Rewards for Chaos Theory

[Mjmannella]

Well yeah, and some people want the scripts to be in place because it helps the enjoyment of their experience. That's something heavily diluted in Sandbox Mode.

There's also no cutscenes in Sandbox Mode, which is another motivator.

 

[Jurassic_DX]

Objective with ZERO reward. There's no reason to play it other than for maps, which even then there's no reason to play through all of it. Not much point of having a story if there's no reason to play. Threads like what you described are made by impatient children who really have no business being on the internet (much less playing a Rated T game) or lazy man-children who could solve a puzzle even if they cheated, the kind of people who really shouldn't be playing a park builder. It's stupid to ask for, and it defeats the point of even having different modes at all.



Technically you do, As they still speak out when you release dinosaurs and/or do anything to mistreat them. so it's not like the character's aren't there. Chaos Theory didn't have much in terms of story. Just characters giving you objectives, and the Campaign is the punch line to a joke if you thought something so incomplete had narrative, especially since it was to act more like a tutorial anyway.

Aside from the fact I am not a fan of indulging the instant gratification crowd that needs something shiny to entice them to play, the rewards are already self-contained in the mode itself. You complete objectives that help increase star rating which unlocks new research many of which are also digsites or specimens at digsites to grow your park. I am one of the people that championed Research & Fossils and Expeditions in Sandbox so I could simply enjoying building a park. That has an appeal in itself that simply having everything unlocked in Sandbox can't scratch. There isn't a reward for playing like that outside of the sheer entertainment value I personally find in it. Sandbox by its very nature also has no objectives, people create their own, so I am not sure how you can praise Sandbox for having no objectives/reward then critique Chaos Theory which has objectives, but few completion awards.

You also contradict yourself saying there is no reward while mentioning the maps as unlocks. Just because the maps don't always require 5 stars to unlock or a completion of all objectives, doesn't make them any less of a reward. Further, the JP3 Chaos Theory is one example that actually does have a completion award as you don't get the map until you complete it as brief as it may be. Story is already plenty of reason to play, are you not aware of one of the biggest selling points of the RPG genre!?

I also don't agree with the instant gratification crowd as I noted in my first sentence, but I am acknowledging they exist and will in fact complain. There are many players who play Sandbox-only who actually demanded the same instant access before Update 2. They did not want to play the other modes to unlock the buildings and species to use in Sandbox just as there are people who want the skins without playing Challenge Mode. While I think Sandbox players had more reason to be unhappy, they contrast those of us that prefer the management aspect of the game. Not every mode will appeal to everyone, but that doesn't mean they have any less value just because they are not personally appealing to us.

 

[TyranntX]

Well yeah, and some people want the scripts to be in place because it helps the enjoyment of their experience. That's something heavily diluted in Sandbox Mode.

There's also no cutscenes in Sandbox Mode, which is another motivator.

you can always make your own cinematics, hell in sand box you have enough tools to make your own machinima... Furthermore you could get some IMPTESSIVE shots this way thanks to first person mode. Things you CAN NOT do (at least not effectively) in the other modes. Sandbox is simply a much BIGGER feature of the game and there for has more available to it, So naturally there's FAR more incentive to play it than they other modes... Especially now since everything is now just given out to the player.

 

[Mjmannella]

I guess? Though the provided cutscenes happen much more smoothly and transition much more effectively. It's like the voices in that while the player can make their own narrative experience, the provided one is still something worthwhile to some players.

 

[TyranntX]

I guess? Though the provided cutscenes happen much more smoothly and transition much more effectively. It's like the voices in that while the player can make their own narrative experience, the provided one is still something worthwhile to some players.

Not really, Hell over on steam some one once posted a complaint thinking being forced into driving a jeep was a bug! While with enough practice and diligence a player very well COULD make something even better than either the Campaign or Chaos theory ever could tell using the tools provided in the game, along with some recording software to show off their work in comparison to Frontier's.

 

[Jurassic_DX]

Sand box players do not have more reason to be unhappy, they are just entitled man-children who refuse to play the damn game. Story alone isn't enough to be enticing to play other modes, FUN alone isn't alone to do so either, as you can get both or make more of the same in (play the exaggerated Drumroll)... SAND BOXMODE. So again, either play the game and unlock what you don't have or do with out it and move on. Because if you just GIVE everything to people there is ZERO reason to have other modes, this is a FACT. Challenge mode now only exists for cosmetics you don't need, Chaos Theory is now only played for maps that are smaller than the Campaign and Challenge maps. This was NOT a smart move and only panders to a group who really have no business playing a park builder at all.

Different type of player, I am not the type who can just make parks endlessly, but I say more power to them. We need that community to generate content and continue to support the game so development continues and we start to obtain more of the features we desire. We must support one another if we are to succeed. Randomly locking some species to Challenge Mode just felt artificial rather than something that was planned with care. Going to have to agree to disagree with you there, story and player enjoyment will keep people that enjoy those things playing for extended periods of time if they care enough some of whom will become long-term players even when most others move onto other ventures.

Screaming something is a fact does not make it so, frankly you are just conflating incentives with objectives at this point. I already gave you a prime example of how Chaos Theory uses its research tree for progression purposes. I also don't understand your vendetta against Sandbox for doing exactly what its supposed to do when other modes like Challenge Mode clearly appear to be more to your liking. Nothing is stopping you from playing Challenge Mode exclusively if that is your preference, it has its own rules and parameters to dictate what you can or cannot do. Also are you now moving the goal posts on me with Chaos Theory, this went from incentives/completion rewards to now griping about the size of the Chaos Theory maps you are awarded.

People can play whatever way they like, the fact you are so intolerant of their playstyle has no bearing on the quality or lack thereof of any game mode. I am done responding to you, this is just turning into vitriol. I expect this thread to get locked shortly.

 

[TyranntX]

Different type of player, I am not the type who can just make parks endlessly, but I say more power to them. We need that community to generate content and continue to support the game so development continues and we start to obtain more of the features we desire. We must support one another if we are to succeed. Randomly locking some species to Challenge Mode just felt artificial rather than something that was planned with care. Going to have to agree to disagree with you there, story and player enjoyment will keep people that enjoy those things playing for extended periods of time if they care enough some of whom will become long-term players even when most others move onto other ventures.

Screaming something is a fact does not make it so, frankly you are just conflating incentives with objectives at this point. I already gave you a prime example of how Chaos Theory uses its research tree for progression purposes. I also don't understand your vendetta against Sandbox for doing exactly what its supposed to do when other modes like Challenge Mode clearly appear to be more to your liking. Nothing is stopping you from playing Challenge Mode exclusively if that is your preference, it has its own rules and parameters to dictate what you can or cannot do. Also are you now moving the goal posts on me with Chaos Theory, this went from incentives/completion rewards to now griping about the size of the Chaos Theory maps you are awarded.

People can play whatever way they like, the fact you are so intolerant of their playstyle has no bearing on the quality or lack thereof of any game mode. I am done responding to you, this is just turning into vitriol. I expect this thread to get locked shortly.

Species that could be unlocked EASILY on easier modes, that was the point of challenge modes' replayability. to unlock what you didn't have. But now it's gone. I have competed all modes, and now there really isn't much incentive to play anymore other than to tool around in sandbox. There's nothing wrong with that since this all happened before the update, but what about future players? What point is there for them to play chaos theory in its entirety if the legacy skins are just given to you and the maps are all unlocked for you at 3-stars (safe for movie 3 but that one is so dismally short it makes Campaign look like a novel). Why bother campaign if you get NOTHING out of it, The story isn't compelling enough to keep you around for long and it's so easy it may as well play its self. "Fun" alone isn't going to be enough, especially since it will only last for so long.

 

[Leftthisplacebehind477544678865]

"Species that could be unlocked EASILY on easier modes, that was the point of challenge modes' replayability."

Whaaaaaat? You think the point of challenge mode is "unlocking things you don't have"? It's CHALLENGE mode. The point is right there in the name, it's a progressively more difficult challenge to overcome. You're supposed to be there because you like to challenge yourself and beat the harder levels.

You're also absolutely wrong that Chaos Theory and Challenge Mode don't have rewards. You still unlock new stuff by playing and completing objectives. It's just that the rewards are limited to inside the scenario. This is normal for games.

To use an example, if I play the campaign of StarCraft I'm going to be beating harder levels and unlocking new units and upgrades throughout it. But if I haven't finished the campaign and play a different game mode like a skirmish map it doesn't tell me I can't use a space marine because I haven't finished the campaign.

It's completely fine to keep your progression systems contained to their respective game modes, and restricting one game mode that appeals to one type of gamer because of a separate game mode that appeals to a completely different type of gamer is literally the dumbest game design decision in history.

Also, this may come as a shock to you but people enjoyed playing video games loooooooong before developers started sticking unlocks, skins and achievements into everything. It's really freaking weird that you can't even imagine enjoying a game and see no reason to play at all unless it has those things dangling in front of you like a carrot on a stick.

If playing the game isn't fun for you unless it gives you some unlock or a cosmetic every time you complete something, then what's fun for you is collecting unlocks, not playing the game.

 

[TyranntX]

"Species that could be unlocked EASILY on easier modes, that was the point of challenge modes' replayability."

Whaaaaaat? You think the point of challenge mode is "unlocking things you don't have"? It's CHALLENGE mode. The point is right there in the name, it's a progressively more difficult challenge to overcome. You're supposed to be there because you like to challenge yourself and beat the harder levels.

You're also absolutely wrong that Chaos Theory and Challenge Mode don't have rewards. You still unlock new stuff by playing and completing objectives. It's just that the rewards are limited to inside the scenario. This is normal for games.

To use an example, if I play the campaign of StarCraft I'm going to be beating harder levels and unlocking new units and upgrades throughout it. But if I haven't finished the campaign and play a different game mode like a skirmish map it doesn't tell me I can't use a space marine because I haven't finished the campaign.

It's completely fine to keep your progression systems contained to their respective game modes, and restricting one game mode that appeals to one type of gamer because of a separate game mode that appeals to a completely different type of gamer is literally the dumbest game design decision in history.

Also, this may come as a shock to you but people enjoyed playing video games loooooooong before developers started sticking unlocks, skins and achievements into everything. It's really freaking weird that you can't even imagine enjoying a game and see no reason to play at all unless it has those things dangling in front of you like a carrot on a stick.

If playing the game isn't fun for you unless it gives you some unlock or a cosmetic every time you complete something, then what's fun for you is collecting unlocks, not playing the game.

1. More the reason why people should stop asking to forgo the damn game and just play it how it was intended, The unlocks are an incentive. Take that away and there is zero point on playing challenge mode. Frontier THEMSELVES have said this.

2. Wrong, the only "Rewards" you get is the map, everything else is handed to you at start and is ready for sandbox play. you can thank the recent update for that.

3. Did you honestly just compare compare a STRATEGY game to a PARK BUILDER? That's like trying to compare an apple to an orange, you just don't do that. Also, command and Conquer 4 is laughing at you. As are a number of other RTS games that are level based.

4. An unlock is not a restriction, it's a goal, an objective, something you need to work for. No one older than 12 wants to be handed things, what fun is a game if the work is done for you?

5. Those "Enjoyed by many" games are not park builders though, not to mention they still required skill to complete. You don't just one shot Egg Man in one level without any opposition in Sonic games, Master Chief didn't blow up a super weapon without anything to challenge him, The Dragonborn doesn't start their adventure with every shout learned in Skyrim, and the villager from Animal Crossing still had to do jobs to pay off their debts. Do you understand, games are fun be cause they offer A CHALLENGE, and when you complete that challenge you are often REWARDED for it. The Spyro game trilogy had an entire playground to tool around in for collecting everything, The OG Zoo Tycoon gave hidden animals and buildings which you can then use in sandbox without the need for cheats, EVEN JP:OG rewarded you with A WHOLE NEW GAME MODE (Site F*cking B) for completing all the missions in mission mode! The list goes on! Good Games do NOT HAND you everything, they are rewarded to you for PLAYING THE GAME!

6. Wrong on so many accounts that I'm sure half the planet would laugh at you if they could see it... possibly more. This may come as a shock to you, but many people enjoy games WAY more when they EARN things for themselves and use them later on... Not have it handed to them because "They didn't feel like playing". Again, most games are meant to challenge the player and most of them that do reward them for... Actually playing the game.

 

[Leftthisplacebehind477544678865]

"The unlocks are an incentive. Take that away and there is zero point on playing challenge mode."

I had already unlocked everything on hard mode when I played Jurassic difficulty. I didn't need an incentive.

"Wrong, the only "Rewards" you get is the map, everything else is handed to you at start and is ready for sandbox play."

Again, you conflate rewards with unlocks. Not everything needs to give you a skin to be rewarding. But even if you were right, there's still the hard mode skins, database unlocks and achievements to be incentives.

As for" that's not a Park builder", park builders like Rollercoaster Tycoon, Zoo Tycoon and Frontier's own Planet games give you completely unlocked sandbox modes for free and people have been playing their campaigns and challenges for ages. I guess those games were poorly designed because they didn't lock everything behind a long, arbitrary grind like JWE2 did?

Yeah, games often give rewards. But those games also don't lock the entire game away, and the rewards are not the point, they're a bonus. You don't see that. Having to unlock basic functions of the game is stupid.

 

[Leftthisplacebehind477544678865]

"Not to mention Database unlocks aren't exactly hard, Achievements on the other hand only further my point."

No they don't. They further the point that there are still rewards there and you're just prissy they're not good enough for you.

"This game isn't Any of those, and is selling and doing just fine."

Frontier's stock prices fell hard after they revealed it sold below expectations and the steam user base fell below Planet Zoo, a two year old game, soon after launch.

"JWE 1 was the same way an not a soul dared bat an eyelid (wasn't hard to unlock everything there either)... so why is JWE2 MAGICALLY different?"

The only thing you unlocked through challenge mode in JWE1 was some optional cosmetics. It was an optional challenge, not a mandatory grind. You unlocked things through the campaign, yes, and people hated it and complained about it constantly. It was stupid then too.

Also, it's absolutely fun to be handed things.

 

[Leftthisplacebehind477544678865]

I 100%ed the game a week after launch. I absolutely enjoyed playing the game as intended. I just didn't need the game to hold my hand, patting me on the head and saying "good job buddy, here's a present for you" every time I finished something like a big baby.

I also would have enjoyed it a lot more if I wasn't rushing it because it locked the most important game mode behind it and the required unlocks actively made the experience worse, not better.

You think millions if people play Dark Souls because they unlock a new weapon after every boss? Challenge is its own reward, you don't need to get stuff for it as an incentive.

"and those people were laughed off the forums..."

[citation needed]

This is a bald faced lie. This is and always has been the most popular opinion in the community.

 

[TyranntX]

I 100%ed the game a week after launch. I absolutely enjoyed playing the game as intended. I just didn't need the game to hold my hand, patting me on the head and saying "good job buddy, here's a present for you" every time I finished something like a big baby.

I also would have enjoyed it a lot more if I wasn't rushing it because it locked the most important game mode behind it and the required unlocks actively made the experience worse, not better.

You think millions if people play Dark Souls because they unlock a new weapon after every boss? Challenge is its own reward, you don't need to get stuff for it as an incentive.

"and those people were laughed off the forums..."

[citation needed]

This is a bald faced lie. This is and always has been the most popular opinion in the community.

Congratulations, you failed to see the point... Again. Only in the Campaign was it evident you were going to be walked though the game and even then it was never insulting your intelligence. NOR is that what it means to unlock, anything in any game really. Also Dark souls is literally a game MEANT to be challenging, and challenge is as much as a reward as getting shot in the head, Challenge is just that... a Challenge, if you don't GET anything out of it then what's the point of doing it (say "fun" and you get a free, mandatory lobotomy)? You wouldn't work a job and Refuse payment would you? You don't take collage classes and expect to not get a diploma do you? If you go through literal Hell to accomplish a task, would it not makes sense that you should be rewarded for your efforts? Fun is not a reward, it's just a side product.

 

[Leftthisplacebehind477544678865]

"Also Dark souls is literally a game MEANT to be challenging"

Congratulations, you finally figured out the point of challenge mode.

"challenge is as much as a reward as getting shot in the head, Challenge is just that..."

See, this is what I'm saying. You clearly don't like the gameplay of JWE2. But getting an incentive or reward for it doesn't solve that fundemental problem. The only thing these rewards do is make you slog through a mode you actually don't want to do. Yet somehow you frame this as a good thing.

This is your argument: "Challenge mode isn't fun, so they should lock all the stuff behind it because otherwise nobody will play it. This is good, rewarding game design."

This is literally the same argument people who want it unlocked are making, except they're taking the correct conclusion and you're not. They wouldn't be playing these modes if they didn't have to because they're not having fun. This isn't reward, it's a punishment.

"You wouldn't work a job and Refuse payment would you? You don't take collage classes and expect to not get a diploma do you?"

Playing a video game is not work. I don't voluntarily work in my free time, I do so because I need to pay bills and eat. If people just handed me the money and I didn't have to work for it, I'd be really freaking happy.

Edit: Stupid profanity filter.

 

[MarcWP]

"Also Dark souls is literally a game MEANT to be challenging"

Congratulations, you finally figured out the point of challenge mode.

"challenge is as much as a reward as getting shot in the head, Challenge is just that..."

See, this is what I'm saying. You clearly don't like the gameplay of JWE2. But getting an incentive or reward for it doesn't solve that fundemental problem. The only thing these rewards do is make you slog through a mode you actually don't want to do. Yet somehow you frame this as a good thing.

This is your argument: "Challenge mode isn't fun, so they should lock all the stuff behind it because otherwise nobody will play it. This is good, rewarding game design."

This is literally the same argument people who want it unlocked are making, except they're taking the correct conclusion and you're not. They wouldn't be playing these modes if they didn't have to because they're not having fun. This isn't reward, it's a punishment.

"You wouldn't work a job and Refuse payment would you? You don't take collage classes and expect to not get a diploma do you?"

Playing a video game is not work. I don't voluntarily work in my free time, I do so because I need to pay bills and eat. If people just handed me the money and I didn't have to work for it, I'd be really freaking happy.

Edit: Stupid profanity filter.

It's so sad, that he can never enjoy a video game just for the gameplay. Imagine all the great story games he's missing, just because he's so stubborn and childish. He needs a reward every time he finishes something... Imagine that in real life. He'll never do anything just for other people. And alot of people work without payment. If it's a good cause, seeing other people happy is reward enough. Making other people happy is something he can never fathom apparently. He thinks this video game is only about him. Jesus Christ......

 

[HeatherG]

This forum isn't to discuss what you think of other players. We need the topic to stay on the game everyone.
Thanks for cooperating.