Ride Aging/Reputation

[breezerHOG1]

I'll probably have to wait for next weeks update to see how things go, but here is what I think about Ride Aging currently. When I play challenge mode (as this is not a big deal in career) I like playing on the harder difficulty, but the only part of the game I find any bit difficult, is dealing with Rides Aging because its not balanced. I find that when a ride is in "aging" status it still makes profits, but once it hits "old" guests refuse to ride at all even if its free.

The thing that really confuses me is that even if I set the ride to free admission, and have good ratings/animations and 100% scenery, guests will still refuse to ride any of my old rides even when they are free!

So how do we counter this? 2 choices: We either delete the ride and rebuild it, which doesn't really set us back that much (financially) its just annoying. Or, we close the ride for the next 14 years until it starts to hit "reviving" and then eventually it will become classic and we become super rich.

Basically, the entire objective of challenge mode is to get a few rides into classic status so we don't have to worry about deleting anything, and then it practically turns into sandbox mode after 20 or 30 years. Does this model really make sense that no guests are willing to ride a free ride, but a having a ride sit closed for many years will suddenly make me super rich? I think it just needs a bit more balancing with how much it reduces or increases prestige ratings

In yesterdays stream, the devs said that refurbishing a ride will bring it out of "old" status and into "aging" status. However, this will not help me because, the devs also said this will delay the time it takes to reach classic status. So, I will still either delete/rebuild the ride, or keep it shut down until its classic. And as for refurbishing, does it really help that much? I don't even bother using it very often (at least not before its a classic) so I guess this will give me even more reason to not use it.

IMO it would make sense that once a park has several old rides, it would be wise to start charging for paid admission to the park entrance and allow guests to ride the old rides for free. That is when the refurbishments would be needed because guests don't want to ride anything if it looks unsafe. But this should not prevent the ride from reaching classic status, it should just give the a ride a boost in customers. This way, as parks get bigger and rides age, players would have to balance park admission vs ride prices.

One of the reasons a rollercoaster or track ride can stay competitive when its old is because it has track scenery, track scenery adds prestige to the ride and therefore the peeps will continue to queue. Flat rides do not have the luxury of track scenery all they get is a queue rating. By adding theme bonuses to rides they could attain the extra bump in prestige needed so as not to be worthless.

This is a good point, what if there was a category for non-queue based scenery ratings for flat rides. Another suggestion is to reduce the effect of old and classic status on flat rides. Old flat rides should be reduced less during old status, and classic flat rides should receive less of an increase on prestige (but keep coasters as they are)

What if we could boost the popularity of unpopular rides by featuring it in an add campaign? (As in the guests of the targeted demographic being more likely to seek out the rides we advertise to them...) The popularity boost would only last about as long as the add campaign, and might still take other factors into account...(With the risk of guests complaining and feeling misled if the ride isn't well themed...)

This is another decent idea, I still think my other suggestions would be better, but this could help too

 

[edjenoh]

The feature is just a complete fail, toggle it off, it's not functioning the way it should. I doubt the 1.2 tweaks will fix this, there wasn't a lot of words on it in the stream except: "We've balanced it now." + you can refurbish to restore prestige (which you could already do anyway by placing a new ride). It's simple to fix really, you just need to make the changes a bit less extreme and allow rides to at least break even when they are old, given there are enough guests in your park. But I somehow doubt that: "We've balanced it." is going to suffice, because of the lack of elobaration on their part. But hey, we will see when the update hits, in the meantime, just toggle it off, it's not worth waiting 20 years with a bunch of closed rides in your park because all they are is a drain on your park.

 

[breezerHOG1]

The feature is just a complete fail, toggle it off, it's not functioning the way it should. just toggle it off, it's not worth waiting 20 years with a bunch of closed rides in your park because all they are is a drain on your park

lol but then the game has no difficulty to it. I like being challenged, but at this point I feel as though I've completed career mode, and challenge mode is too easy. When you say "its not functioning the way that it should." how do you think it should work?

It's simple to fix really, you just need to make the changes a bit less extreme and allow rides to at least break even when they are old, given there are enough guests in your park.

Thats my point, I think that guests should be willing to ride anything that is free (as long as it has decent reliability) even if its in "old" status

+ you can refurbish to restore prestige (which you could already do anyway by placing a new ride).

what exactly does refurbishing do? I see it as a waste of money... in the new 1.2 update refurbs will pull a ride out of "old" status and into "aging" but it will now prevent or slow down the time it takes to reach "classic" and I dont see that as an improvement really.

 

[PC_OCD]

No need in speculating what's to be 4 days from now. I'll wait until after the update to see if reputation/aging has been balanced or not. Right now I feel exactly the same way Edjenoh feels. Its a complete fail and I'm kind of over it, but thanks for directing me to this thread creaper, I will keep tuned in.

It didn't sound very promising in the stream yesterday, but considering prestige isn't shiny new eye candy, it may have been a topic just brushed over.. so its possible its been straightened out. We'll see soon enough.. I'm hopeful that 4 days from now this thread will not be a concern.

 

[cerealfruitcakes]

My biggest problem currently with ride prestige is that I have two big parks where coasters/tracked rides are so high in prestige that guests completely ignore flat rides that they walk by. In a theme park simulator, there would be triggers that would get guests to ride these flat rides that they're walking past rather than ignoring them.

 

[Bullethead]

I'll probably have to wait for next weeks update to see how things go, but here is what I think about Ride Aging currently. When I play challenge mode (as this is not a big deal in career) I like playing on the harder difficulty, and the only part of the game I find any bit difficult, is dealing with Rides Aging. I find that when a ride is in "aging" status it still makes profits, but once it hits "old" guests refuse to ride at all even if its free.

The thing that really confuses me is that even if I set the ride to free admission, and have good ratings/animations and 100% scenery, guests will still refuse to ride any of my old rides even when they are free!

Well, ride price has zero impact on attracting peeps to rides in the 1st place. Attraction is done by fear/nausea ratings being within the peeps' tolerances, the ride's relative prestige rating, the travel distance to the ride, and things like that. Price only comes into play once a peep walks up to the start of a ride or shop queue, and then it only matters if 1) the price is higher than the peep wants to pay for that thing or 2) is higher than the peep's remaining money. If either of those happens, the peep walks away. Otherwise, the peep pays the price. But either way,the peep immediately forgets the price of the thing and has to learn it again next time he gets there.

This means that lowering the price of unpopular rides only makes them even less profitable because you get less money for the few peeps who are attracted to it by its other qualities. However, the max price you can charge for a ride before at least some peeps start thinking it's too expensive is approximately the ride's prestige / 37.6. Because aging lowers prestige, ticket prices have to go down proportionally or you'll lose some of the few peeps attracted to it. But you shouldn't make the ride free because then you get zero money for it at all, this will not attract any more business, and yoiu're still paying all the operating costs. It's better just to shut it down instead of making it free.

NOTE: I'm not a fan of this mechanic because it removes the managerial tool of strategic price-setting. But until this mechanic changes, we're stuck with price having zero effect on attractiveness.

Now as to prestige, there seems to be a real breakpoint in attractiveness at about 600-700. Rides above that level seem to be more or less equally attractive to peeps, and also WAY more attractive than rides below that level. So, if you're playing with aging, you need to build rides with enough prestige to start with that aging won't take it below this critical level. Because the aging prestige hit is bigger with higher difficulty level, this becomes increasingly harder to do. And scenery only gives you so much prestige---to get really high initial prestige, you need both very high excitement and long duration. Which is physically impossible for certain types of rides and expensive in both money and real estate for those capable of reaching these stats. But hey, you wanted a challenge or you wouldn't have left aging turned on and selected "harder" difficulty .

BTW, I found what is probably a bug but does help on the refurbishment thing.....

If you hit the "Request Refurbishment" button while the ride is operating, it will be closed for several years it seems. Which kinda makes it a pointless option. But if you wait until the ride breaks down (which is going to happen often with an aging ride) and hit "Request Refurbishment" before the mechanic fixes it, the entire refurb happens during the normal mechanic repair time.

 

[breezerHOG1]

Well, ride price has zero impact on attracting peeps to rides in the 1st place. Attraction is done by fear/nausea ratings being within the peeps' tolerances, the ride's relative prestige rating, the travel distance to the ride, and things like that. Price only comes into play once a peep walks up to the start of a ride or shop queue, and then it only matters if 1) the price is higher than the peep wants to pay for that thing or 2) is higher than the peep's remaining money. If either of those happens, the peep walks away. Otherwise, the peep pays the price. But either way,the peep immediately forgets the price of the thing and has to learn it again next time he gets there.

my point in its simplest is that a free ride should get guests riding it, but in my challenge park when a ride hits "old" status, guests start walking by ignoring my old rides in the front of my park so not even 1 guest will enter them after they are old.

guests completely ignore flat rides that they walk by

yes [up] exactly

NOTE: I'm not a fan of this mechanic because it removes the managerial tool of strategic price-setting. But until this mechanic changes, we're stuck with price having zero effect on attractiveness.

You said yourself, you are not a fan of that mechanic, so my suggestion is that when a ride is old it can be set to free and then guests should be more willing to pay for admission when an old park has multiple free rides, and that guests should be happy to ride a free ride. Only when a ride is faulty, or unreliable (and never refurbished) then guests will not ride due to safety. But and old ride that is free should not be completely ignored by guests

peeps start thinking it's too expensive is approximately the ride's prestige / 37.6

maybe I'm just tired but you really lose me sometimes... 37.6 is a silly number, can you simplify things a little and just say 1 star of prestige = $6 so 2.5 stars = $15 and 5 stars = >$29 [wink] its much less math

Now as to prestige, there seems to be a real breakpoint in attractiveness at about 600-700. Rides above that level seem to be more or less equally attractive to peeps, and also WAY more attractive than rides below that level. So, if you're playing with aging, you need to build rides with enough prestige to start with that aging won't take it below this critical level. Because the aging prestige hit is bigger with higher difficulty level, this becomes increasingly harder to do. And scenery only gives you so much prestige---to get really high initial prestige, you need both very high excitement and long duration. Which is physically impossible for certain types of rides and expensive in both money and real estate for those capable of reaching these stats. But hey, you wanted a challenge or you wouldn't have left aging turned on and selected "harder" difficulty .

I use the guide posted by infinity to get the best profits out of my rides by raising their animations and prestige to the max they can be, so your argument is invalid. I know certain rides have no profit value, and therefor I do not use them (most notably ferris wheels). That doesn't seem like good balance to me, challenge should come from gameplay elements (like security and vandals, terrain formation/limitations, other objective types, guests being unsatisfied hungry/broke etc) but not the inability to afford rides [down]

If you hit the "Request Refurbishment" button while the ride is operating, it will be closed for several years it seems. Which kinda makes it a pointless option. But if you wait until the ride breaks down (which is going to happen often with an aging ride) and hit "Request Refurbishment" before the mechanic fixes it, the entire refurb happens during the normal mechanic repair time.

the function of refurb just doesnt seem well thought out IMO. Refurbs should strictly be for safety and maintenance

 

[Guitar_Sly]

Closing the Rides until they reach the "classic" status will eventually not work anymore after the update. In the Stream, they said that they have changed the system to start at the opening point of a ride. Not the time you have build it. So if you close your ride, the prestige will probably stop at this time and continue when you reopen it. [uhh]

 

[breezerHOG1]

Closing the Rides until they reach the "classic" status will eventually not work anymore after the update. In the Stream, they said that they have changed the system to start at the opening point of a ride. Not the time you have build it. So if you close your ride, the prestige will probably stop at this time and continue when you reopen it. [uhh]

I thought they meant just for opening new rides and building track rides, if this is true for old rides too I will be very angry as that would not be an improvement

 

[Bullethead]

my point in its simplest is that a free ride should get guests riding it, but in my challenge park when a ride hits "old" status, guests start walking by ignoring my old rides in the front of my park so not even 1 guest will enter them after they are old.

And I'm just saying, this isn't a price issue (much as I might want it to be). It's a prestige issue. Peeps decide which ride to go on based largely on the ride's prestige relative to other rides in the park. So if age knocks a ride's prestige down well below that of other rides, it won't be very attractive to peeps. Peeps don't think about price at all until they actually arrive at the ride, and if the ride is free, then price would not keep them from going on it.

As for a ride's max ticket price being approximately (prestige) / 37.6, this came from research conducted by YouTuber Brothgar. You can see it here:
https://youtu.be/fk4ErtvK5yA.

This price is the highest you can charge before any peeps complain that the ride costs too much. You can charge more but you'll start getting a few peeps refusing to ride because they think it's too expensive. You don't necessarily want to charge anywhere near as much as this equation lets you. But the point is, peeps have very high tolerance for ticket price, which just further shows that price is not a factor when peeps decide which ride to go on.

I use the guide posted by infinity to get the best profits out of my rides by raising their animations and prestige to the max they can be, so your argument is invalid.

Actually, this is a misconception. Infinity's recommendations do not maximize prestige. His settings were intended to maximize $/minute, which is an entirely different matter from maximizing prestige. Prestige comes primarily from excitement, duration, and scenery. If everything in the park has about the same level of scenery, that's a wash and doesn't contribute to a ride's relative prestige level compared to other rides. So that leaves duration and excitement. With many flat rides, excitement is capped at a relatively low level, so the only way to jack up their prestige is to increase their durations, sometimes to stupidly long times. by just heaping more and more sequences on them. This naturally decreases throughput considerably, and thus $/minute. Because of this, I find Infinity's list of very limited utility. It's certainly not the panacea some folks think it is.

I know certain rides have no profit value, and therefor I do not use them (most notably ferris wheels). That doesn't seem like good balance to me, challenge should come from gameplay elements (like security and vandals, terrain formation/limitations, other objective types, guests being unsatisfied hungry/broke etc) but not the inability to afford rides [down]

Again, you're missing the point. You keep assuming that peep's take a ride's price into account when they decide which ride to go on. As I've been trying to explain, that doesn't happen.

Peeps decide which ride to go on as follows:

1. Eliminate from consideration all rides with higher fear and/or nausea ratings than the peep's max tolerances for those.

2. Of the remaining rides, pick one based on the following factors:
* Ride's prestige relative to other rides
* Travel time to get to the ride. 1/2 the travel time trumps 2x the prestige in my experience
* Whether the ride's fear and/or nausea are ABOVE the peep's MINIMUM tolerances for these things
* How many times the peep has already been on each ride

3. Having selected which ride to go on, the peep starts moving towards it. When he gets to the start of the queue, he makes a go/no-go decision based on queue status and price, as follows:
* If totally full, go somewhere else
* If wait time > peep's personal, random tolerance, go somewhere else
* If price > what peep is willing to pay (which itself is at least (prestige) / 37.6 ), go somewhere else
* If price > peep's remaining money, go somewhere else
* If none of the above no-go conditions are met, pay the price and go on the ride

So, the actual managerial thing is to get the peep to move towards the ride to begin with. If you can't do that, then it doesn't matter what the price is because the peep will never consider the price at all. So your job is to design the ride with fear and nausea that appeal to as many peeps as possible, get the prestige as high as possible, and arrange things so peeps can get to rides quickly. You might also hold off on adding any scenery at all to rides until they start getting old, thereby using scenery as a bandaid on their declining inherent prestige level.

 

[breezerHOG1]

man you make things so complicated, like you contradict your own statements and you write so much I don't know where to begin... even if all of your statistics are accurate, a free ride should not be ignored 100% by all guests

the only way to jack up their prestige is to increase their durations, sometimes to stupidly long times. by just heaping more and more sequences on them. This naturally decreases throughput considerably, and thus $/minute

I find that increasing sequences increases prestige which allows me to charge more for rides, thus bringing in more money. If I disable ride aging or play on easy, the profits I receive from all my rides stays high and evenly balanced. With ride aging on harder mode, once a ride hits "old" guests refuse to ride it. Whether this has to do with prestige or some other factors you want to add in doesnt matter, its the age of the ride being old that causes a massive shift from "low" guests to "zero" guests and that should not be the case when I set a ride to free.

His settings were intended to maximize $/minute, which is an entirely different matter from maximizing prestige.

Like I know you will disagree and give some essay as to why they are not the same thing, but prestige is directly linked to the amount I can charge for a ride before guests wont pay to ride it. So I disagree when you say its an "entirely different matter"

* Travel time to get to the ride. 1/2 the travel time trumps 2x the prestige in my experience

the rides in my park are all evenly spread out (i know how to maximize path placement) and all my rides have full lines (with about 30 rides) then in my 5th or 6th year the rides closest to my park entrance suddenly drop to ZERO guests and the front of my park empties out and all new guests walk past the old ride to go farther back into my park and the back part of my park gets more crowded. Its not difficult to play through the next 10 years for them to go reviving status, its just dumb that half my park has to be closed down till I get there

You keep assuming that peep's take a ride's price into account when they decide which ride to go on. As I've been trying to explain, that doesn't happen.

well maybe that needs to be changed

Whether the ride's fear and/or nausea are ABOVE the peep's MINIMUM tolerances for these things

so if this is accurate, then it doesnt come into play until after a ride hits old, and after a ride hits reviving then this statement no longer is a factor... doesnt make sense. If I have an old ride at 100% scenery and max ride sequences why would guests choose not to ride for free? Like I could place 2 of the exact same ride one next to my entrance and it gets full line for 5-6 years with a price of $25, but suddenly its old so they refuse to ride it so I set it to free they still refuse and then I build a new one a mile away and charge $25 and they flock to it... and oh but now the old ride is a classic so lets all run back to that and pay even more! lol it doesnt matter what the ride is this is true for all flat rides (just not track rides)


I think you look for ways to describe how the game works and you defend it, but you dont look at how it COULD work or to improve it. IMO the entire prestige system should be rebalanced so certain rides are not getting such a high income and other rides are not getting such a low income, I actually think we are making too much profits on certain rides and they should give us new and better ways of challenging us. Thats why most people just disable this feature

 

[Bullethead]

I give up. Apparently either I can't write English or you can't read it, or both. Either way, we're having a total failure to communicate.

Bottom line is: You have several fundamental misconceptions about the game mechanics. I've tried several times to clear those up for you but don't want to listen, so there's no point in my trying again. So have fun beating your head against a wall of your own making.

 

[PC_OCD]

LOL!!!!!!!
oh man this is funny.. please don't stop. This has been my daily entertainment.

Get a handle on it guys, please figure this all out.. its only 2.5 days till the entire prestige system as we know it may be different making everything which has been so elaborately discussed in this thread completely irrelevant but now I need conclusion... don't give up now, you're on a roll!

 

[ChewyBachus]

I think all "classic" should do is give a small (100) prestige bonus to the current condition of the ride. Refurbishing a ride should bring it back to the start of aging.

So only for a short period of time could a refurbished classic bring in the same amount of money a new ride would.

The game should also track that you've owned a certain ride, and just selling and old one to buy a new one should never achieve more than a refurbished ride.

Nothing should ever be better than the first time it was new.

 

[breezerHOG1]

Refurbishing a ride should bring it back to the start of aging.
So only for a short period of time could a refurbished classic bring in the same amount of money a new ride would.

but then our rides would never get to stay classic for very long, if that was the case they would need to decrease the effect of old status on rides

 

[ChewyBachus]

but then our rides would never get to stay classic for very long, if that was the case they would need to decrease the effect of old status on rides

No, no. Once a ride becomes classic it would forever remain classic. It would work like this:

Prestige for New = 500
Prestige for Old =100

Refurbishing a normal ride would bring prestige back to 400.

Once Classic, it would add a prestige bonus of 100.

A refurbished classic would then be 500 again for a brief moment, as aging would commence, but an Old Classic would only drop to 200 prestige.

Values used in the example were arbitrarily chosen, but should serve to explain the method.

This way managing the condition of your rides is an ongoing concern, but there is a real benefit to having Classic rides. Not just a "reach Classic, and get rich".