RV Sonnenkreis - Decoding Universal Cartographics

MattG

MattG
Jackie Silver said:
Readings from different parts of the galaxy would be very useful. So far the results seem to be consistent everywhere, but it would be nice to be sure!
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I've done one set of readings here. It seems quite erratic, is that normal? Did I mess something up? It's dense enough around there that it never gets close to the 20LY cut-off (so they all have 50 systems listed).
 

Jackie Silver

Jackie Silver
Cool, thanks, I will add them to the plot.

@MattG - your set of data points are the first ones to break the expected pattern, the fall-off of density with height is much slower than my current fit line would handle. It may be that the galactic bulge adds a third component to the mix. *grins* More data is very much needed and appreciated here from locations close to Sadge!

This is the latest:

3M58CQz.png
 
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Taen

Taen
Just wrote a response and apparently the forums don't like it when I only write things onces.

How accurate would it be to use galmap, pick a code, say AA-A A, find the last system number in that sequence, then do the same for the subsectors it is nested within (Eg. AA-A B-H) and then calculate a 10x10x10 portion of each of those (So, AA-A B / 8^1, C / 8^2, etc.) This has the advantage of being doable exclusively through galmap, and some of the numbers can be re-used as the mass codes get higher.

And forgive me if you already did something of the sort years ago. There's a lot to read on these threads. :D
 

Jackie Silver

Jackie Silver
Hmm... I think I see what you mean, Taen. It would be quite a broad-brush approach, so perhaps not suited to finding the overall density given the rapid rate of change of density as we move from the plane, but we could perhaps measure the density as it applies to mass code A systems (...) maybe up to mass code D.

I returned to the Bubble on a flying visit to the AEGIS bases in the Pleiades, the INRA sites and some junky old-school Cobra; I'm now heading "southwest" from there towards a dense part of the arm to take another set of surveys. I will try looking at it from a mass code basis while I'm there, watch this space! - then I'll have to be on my way out to catch up with DECE for the next meetup, I'm a little pushed for time now as I spent longer in the Bubble than I planned to.

6LfrHzL.jpg


(Also - as a general method of finding the density, I think that's an excellent idea and ought to have applications elsewhere - if we get the way the scale height changes narrowed down, we could work out some formulae to get the overall density of a sector just by looking at system counts on the plane!)
 
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Taen

Taen
Jackie Silver said:
Hmm... I think I see what you mean, Taen. It would be quite a broad-brush approach, so perhaps not suited to finding the overall density given the rapid rate of change of density as we move from the plane, but we could perhaps measure the density as it applies to mass code A systems (...) maybe up to mass code D.

(Also - as a general method of finding the density, I think that's an excellent idea and ought to have applications elsewhere - if we get the way the scale height changes narrowed down, we could work out some formulae to get the overall density of a sector just by looking at system counts on the plane!)
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I think I would probably approach it from a couple of different angles. Obviously you can't get every count for ever mass code. The A's alone would make that almost impossible. But approaching it from the largest subsectors and we could potentially sample it at strategic points. Say, get numbers from H, and the G's, and then pick a group of subsectors that all nest within, one of the G's, say (assuming I haven't screwed up my diagram) FG-Y G, OS-U f2, GR-N e6. RO-Z d13, MJ-X C2, and some nested sample of B, and A. (I so far haven't tackled those on my spreadsheet.) My thought would be initially to pick a few sectors, pick a few locations, and just see how the numbers turn out. It wouldn't completely shock me to find the numbers being somewhat proportionate to those nested within. Regardless, if we have the larger subsectors, we can easily re-use that data for any smaller ones.

One slight oddity I've noticed is Eol Prou is extremely lopsided. FG-Y G, and DL-Y G number in the thousands, whereas the others are in the low hundreds, some with under 100. (I very recently completed a data run to get a minimum of 10 complete system scans from all of the G's and a minimum of 3 of each of the F's. Also known as 320 million in post 2.3 dollars. :D Was gathering data to find patterns on the inter-relationships between the boxels.)

Edit: An imperfect, but very fast, way to gather a lot of data would be to take existing scan data and extract the highest system number from a given subsector as a "minimum ceiling" (eg. we know there are *at least* that many systems there). It wouldn't be accurate, but it should still reflect broader patterns, particularly in the more well-traveled areas.
 
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Jackie Silver

Jackie Silver
Taen said:
One slight oddity I've noticed is Eol Prou is extremely lopsided. FG-Y G, and DL-Y G number in the thousands, whereas the others are in the low hundreds, some with under 100. (I very recently completed a data run to get a minimum of 10 complete system scans from all of the G's and a minimum of 3 of each of the F's. Also known as 320 million in post 2.3 dollars. :D Was gathering data to find patterns on the inter-relationships between the boxels.)
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That would be interesting to see!

BaldEagle said:
Any preference where I should head to Jackie?
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I've no special preference as to direction - if you're doing a series of surveys, perhaps head along one of the spiral arms?

I'm in HEGUA sector at the moment - I'm going to try the "Taen Approach" around HEGUA AA-A and upwards.
I made one survey earlier here and flew up a bit higher than before (1000 --> 1250) to get as much of the vertical height of HEGUA in as possible.
 

BaldEagle

BaldEagle
"... I've no special preference as to direction - if you're doing a series of surveys, perhaps head along one of the spiral arms?..."

OK
I need to go back and get my Asp as I had to use some boosts even to do this trip in my Cobra :eek:
How do you show your graph with the 'mean' of the results? Is it hand drawn as I can't find an Excel feature that does it ...
 

Jackie Silver

Jackie Silver
The line I've got on the graph is a fit line I've been trying based on combining two scale heights (for the thin and thick disk) - the formula is upthread somewhere. But I think we will need to add a third component for the galactic bulge based on the set of results from nearer to Sadge.

(This) is my current spreadsheet of results. I got about half way through my second survey in HEGUA (using a simple version of the Taen method) but it was proving troublesome due to overlapping survey areas - I will try another with a modified approach. Promising, though.

I'm heading back to the Bubble to take care of some urgent business there now... can't make my mind up... :)
 

Taen

Taen
Jackie Silver said:
The line I've got on the graph is a fit line I've been trying based on combining two scale heights (for the thin and thick disk) - the formula is upthread somewhere. But I think we will need to add a third component for the galactic bulge based on the set of results from nearer to Sadge.

(This) is my current spreadsheet of results. I got about half way through my second survey in HEGUA (using a simple version of the Taen method) but it was proving troublesome due to overlapping survey areas - I will try another with a modified approach. Promising, though.

I'm heading back to the Bubble to take care of some urgent business there now... can't make my mind up... :)
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I've got a method named after me! :D

Ok, so I've been working at this from a slightly different angle. What I've mostly been concerned with is making sure I'm properly nesting my boxels. It's not yet doing any actual calculation, but rather just confirming that I'm in the right location:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GOrsYTthSE_GbacyvkiOAKyRslQTL0T7SK22KSpmFYw/edit?usp=sharing

Pretty much everything happens on the Parse tab at this time. What it does is take a system name, separate the sector, subsector, boxelmasscode, system number, etc. and then work out which higher and lower boxels are contained within. Because I'm deriving coordinates from the subsector codes, it is most accurate from A. That said, because the interrelationship structure is already there, it will make it much easier to calculate density at higher mass code levels. That is, we can take everything we know about everything contained in say, Eol Prou AA-A G, and fill in missing gaps by averaging the info we have. So, a G boxel will contain 8^1 F, 8^2 E.... 8^6 A. If we have only 1 A we could inaccurately average all other A's at that. But the more info we get, the more accurate it automatically becomes.

This, of course, it highly preliminary. We might find, for example, that there is a strong correlation between nested boxels. So, for example, maybe we find B's will typically have about 40x more systems than A's.

Incidentally, I'm not 100% confident about my boxel calculations. I haven't worked out how to accurately determine the... mass code modifier?... the number immediately to the right of the mass code. (eg. f1, f2, e6, d13, etc). I'm a little surprised that I can obtain the rest subsector codes without that, which makes me think that I've either made a mistake, or that I don't fully comprehend what that modifier does.

Ok, nice outside. Going to get the kids off of Minecraft. :D
 

Taen

Taen
So tell me if I'm wrong. In order to actually calculate density in the "Taen Method" the idea would basically be (assuming all are nested) A/8^0 + b/8^1 + c/8^2 +.... h/8^7, is that about right? (I suppose that gives us the number of stars (or close to it) in that 10ly^3 area, and not the actual density.. tired. Need to get my children to rake leaves..)

(A/8^0 + b/8^1 + c/8^2 D/8^3 + E/8^4 + F/8^5 + G/8^6 H/8^7)/10^3

Does that sound right?
 

Jackie Silver

Jackie Silver
Taen said:
Incidentally, I'm not 100% confident about my boxel calculations. I haven't worked out how to accurately determine the... mass code modifier?... the number immediately to the right of the mass code. (eg. f1, f2, e6, d13, etc). I'm a little surprised that I can obtain the rest subsector codes without that, which makes me think that I've either made a mistake, or that I don't fully comprehend what that modifier does.
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It's a counter - each time the first three letters go round a full cycle of the alphabet from AA-A to ZZ-Z, that number increments by one, which is why it generally increases as you go "north" in a sector.

The "yourboat" program here might be useful to you?
 

Taen

Taen
Jackie Silver said:
It's a counter - each time the first three letters go round a full cycle of the alphabet from AA-A to ZZ-Z, that number increments by one, which is why it generally increases as you go "north" in a sector.

The "yourboat" program here might be useful to you?
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That's what I thought, and is why I'm confused about actually getting the correct results back from my formula. But perhaps this is because I "unpacked" it correctly to get the coordinates in the first place. Or perhaps it will fail when I throw more data at it.
 

Frankie L

Frankie L
Jackie Silver said:
Readings from different parts of the galaxy would be very useful. So far the results seem to be consistent everywhere, but it would be nice to be sure!
Click to expand...

I'm planning to reach Beagle's Point with a soon-to-depart expedition, fancy some readings along the way?

Right now I'm heading towards Colonia, I'm planning to navigate (ehm..."astrogate"?) on top of the galactic plane, but when I'll join the expedition I'll follow the route near the plane. Not sure to have understood the "Taen approach", since I've not yet grasped the cartographics system, but I can surely give some N and R data in respect to the distance from the plane.
 

Jackie Silver

Jackie Silver
Frankie L said:
I'm planning to reach Beagle's Point with a soon-to-depart expedition, fancy some readings along the way?

Right now I'm heading towards Colonia, I'm planning to navigate (ehm..."astrogate"?) on top of the galactic plane, but when I'll join the expedition I'll follow the route near the plane. Not sure to have understood the "Taen approach", since I've not yet grasped the cartographics system, but I can surely give some N and R data in respect to the distance from the plane.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, yes please.
 
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