Salvage vs Stolen: A gripe but with a suggestion(awesome SS included!)(Foiled by BBS)
- Thread starter Redcon One
- Start date
When you drop cargo you can choose to abandon it making it "not stolen" for anyone who picks it up.
With due respect to some 'consensus', that's not time honored established law regarding salvage in international waters or by extension the space in uninhabited star systems. While it can be argued that cargo in an inhabited system can be claimed to be stolen whether by pirates or otherwise, that claim doesn't hold up in a system with no established presence. That would be "international waters". Salvage claimed, not pirated but abandoned, in such "waters" are by long standing tradition, international law, and treaties are considered the property of the person or group responsible for finding them. Since this has been tradition for several hundred years already, and well established international law for just over 100 years since the Brussels Convention established a standard code. I don't see why the human race, known to embrace tradition for hundreds if not thousands of years worth, would have abandoned these traditions and laws just because we've moved into interstellar space.
In a shorter explanation, the argument doesn't hold weight that all salvage is automatically stolen and there's no technical reason it should be either from a development standpoint nor a legal/traditional one. I agree with the OP, it's extremely irritating to pick up salvage and get an automatic fine once you approach a station when you're neither a pirate nor a thief. It happens whether it's "trade data", "experimental chemicals", or "ancient artifacts" which can be argued *no one* owns as the ancients are probably long extinct. This needs to be changed or there's no reason for explorers to even have cargo racks. You could argue there's no real reason to even explore without uncommon otherwise legitimate rewards like this. Besides, one of the perks in the official ads for explorers is the potential to discover and bring back these valuable artifacts, but instead, we're fined. How's that for hypocrisy? These goods are not stolen, that's the part you're seemingly not understanding!
In a shorter explanation, the argument doesn't hold weight that all salvage is automatically stolen and there's no technical reason it should be either from a development standpoint nor a legal/traditional one. I agree with the OP, it's extremely irritating to pick up salvage and get an automatic fine once you approach a station when you're neither a pirate nor a thief. It happens whether it's "trade data", "experimental chemicals", or "ancient artifacts" which can be argued *no one* owns as the ancients are probably long extinct. This needs to be changed or there's no reason for explorers to even have cargo racks. You could argue there's no real reason to even explore without uncommon otherwise legitimate rewards like this. Besides, one of the perks in the official ads for explorers is the potential to discover and bring back these valuable artifacts, but instead, we're fined. How's that for hypocrisy? These goods are not stolen, that's the part you're seemingly not understanding!
EVE.
except you don't get fined, you get marked as killable for the owner of the can.
the number of newbs that fall for the "free loot here" cans and then get ganked is astounding.
This isn't any other game and the mechanics and rules are consistent with the setting. Goods are stored in cargo canisters, those cans are marked for ownership. If a pirate is carrying stolen goods then they belong to somebody else (in the make believe game world), the fact that you have destroyed the pirate's ship does not automatically make the goods yours any more than hitting a mugger over the head makes the purse they just stole from that nice old lady yours.
It's consistent and realistic (not something you appreciate, I understand) and, furthermore, presents opportunities for interesting gameplay beyond 'kill, collect loots, sell'. You already got your bounty, if you want extra you now you have to make a choice... risk vs reward. I enjoy the risk of smuggling contraband and would be very upset to see this nerfed so some people could lazily collect more credits.
What I would like to see is a new mechanic whereby players can choose to declare stolen goods claimed from USS or Pirates (but not goods pirated by the player). Once declared the goods could be sold at any station market for a substantial reduction, if not declared you need to smuggle them into a black market but should receive a much higher payout than currently is given. This could exist alongside a separate 'salvage license' which might apply to USS but not necessarily goods recovered from npc.
Personally I would find that more enjoyable than dumbing down this aspect of the game to a mindless loot accumulation grind.
this... you purchase (in game) license for say, 10,000 credits, have it issued for that faction space, and you can keep it for xx time or 10x the cost of the license.
Or maybe have options, reduced returns for faction rep, and what not.
This sort of system could make it so you could go a purchase 'piracy' licenses as well, allows you to hunt for goods from other faction stuff and go on.
it will give you more freedom and what not.
its something to think about anyway
Just an update: Thank you for all your private messages but my bounty has been cleared. Several CMDR's tried to collect but a certain one in a federal dropship suprised the krap outta me. Good show~ Though I bet you spent more on fuel and missles and rail gun ammo than 300k bounty..Didn't expect my little battle can to be that tough eh? /bow least im clear of that over my head
I don't think that many people are interested in the topic. I't fine as it it. I proposed Salvaged and stolen cargo mechanics proposal , which is a very well worked out mechanic for stolen goods, but it didn't get any traction.
So rather than making another post griping i'll just add to my previous. Seems less spammy it does I think. So there I was minding my own coming back from some state sponsored artifact hunting with a bay full of antiques and some er yanks me outta super cruise going on about me mum and her poor breeding habits. As I was politely explaining to him I didn't know my mum that perhaps he had the wrong person and in fact I would be willing to help him look for the right person if he cut me in the coppers warped in. This bloke flipped out and started shooting at them, they started shooting my direction and one of them boosted into me and I guess his tiny eagle couldn't handle things(whats with the npc's not using shields lately?) and blew up so now they are all shooting at me and im trying to run and the other er has done left and its just me and the security guys shooting at me. My fine is pretty high at this point( around 20k?) I figure fine i'll just land at a small station without guards and pay it since the bounty for the ancient antiques(state sponsored) was sky high and I collected enough for 5 missions worth. On my way out one of the guys shooting me takes a break to scan me, how lovely, 70k fine parting gift, bloody hell, ok well i'll land and take care of it and call it a bad day. I land on this unsanctioned outpost, clear my wanted and my fines for 103k and chalk it up to a bad day. I fly back to the station to do several hand ins of artifacts for missions. I have heatsink ejectors x2 and I use silent running to get into stations, bout 95% success rate. Anyhow long story short soon as I dropped super cruise 10k from the station I was already being scanned, boosted away right into another scan, boosted away right into another, ended up boosting right into the station to try to avoid it, missed the entrance, took 90% dmg but lived, still got scanned 3 times on 6 tries....they were waiting for me =p lucky i didn't try silent running or i'd of been dead without shields....303k in fines, 166k in hand ins and bounties. lost my bloody ass tonight. I hate the stolen/salvage mechanic...but damn i love this game.
carry on
carry on
Marking it as stolen is really dumb, because the cannisters lose HP over time, and are destroyed after a few minutes. It's incredibly wasteful NOT to pick them up and put them back into the economy, rather than let them be destroyed.
"We desperately need fish here so we don't starve, but you "STOLE" it! Even though the owner is dead and you were not the one who killed him. So, uhh, die!"
Also, why don't the feds try to scoop up cargo? They should have illicit cargo retrieval convoys making rounds with fed escorts in order to keep the flow of goods to their local station at a high as level as possible. The system now makes absolutely no sense. This would also give pro pirates a nice juicy target to hit: Small to mega-huge freighters full of all sorts of goods, with fed escorts to make it an interesting battle and encouraging co-op pirating.
"We desperately need fish here so we don't starve, but you "STOLE" it! Even though the owner is dead and you were not the one who killed him. So, uhh, die!"
Also, why don't the feds try to scoop up cargo? They should have illicit cargo retrieval convoys making rounds with fed escorts in order to keep the flow of goods to their local station at a high as level as possible. The system now makes absolutely no sense. This would also give pro pirates a nice juicy target to hit: Small to mega-huge freighters full of all sorts of goods, with fed escorts to make it an interesting battle and encouraging co-op pirating.
I like this idea... Have to be expensive mind...