Sandro 2.3 Q&A Summary

[Exiton]

In-lore explanation of Gunner view? Small micro camera that orbits ship. Too small to be attacked or targeted

(facepalm) This is really, really bad and poorly thought out explanation. What prevents every single ship in ED universe to deploy entire swarm of those cameras and render enemy's silent running and countermeasures completely useless?

Also why on earth is bounty hunting considered lawful activity? Target can be scanned with KWS and big bounty can be revealed on someone who is "clean" in the current system, killing such target would be unlawful yet fully in the spirit of bounty hunting.

 

[OCD]

thank you
utterly astounding, and OCD, set of minutes
very much appreciated

 

[h347h]

if works a solution is 1 copy per ip..but then u have other problems u dont know if other ppl on that ip play the game lol

You can always change your IP through other means too so that isn't a solution either.

 

[Truesilver]

If they're not going to stop people multiboxing for the pips, it would be more fair to literally just sell extra pips in the store for the same price as a second copy of the game. At least that would make them more accessible.

How about to give us the opportunity to buy a second commander slot, to an existing account?

Yes, both of these would be convenient.

I don't personally share Frontier's opinion on the AFK second account extra pip thing, but if it's in, let's just go the whole hog and be done with it.

P.S. Also I think that those of us who bought the Chrome Adder last December should automatically get the extra pip, no questions asked.

 

[fademist]

You can always change your IP through other means too so that isn't a solution either.

yeah forgot about that :/

 

[fennster]

You can always change your IP through other means too so that isn't a solution either.

How do you do that, short of having two lines coming into your house, it would still be one WAN IP wouldn't it?

(Guessing VPN clients on each computer)

 

[Minonian]

You can always change your IP through other means too so that isn't a solution either.

2 separate IP address from the same Psychical location, trough the same line, at the same time? Tricky...

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I don't personally share Frontier's opinion on the AFK second account extra pip thing, but if it's in, let's just go the whole hog and be done with it.

Unfair advantage.

The resolution is simple. You can have multiple ACC's but you can't use em at the same time. And to give a little playing field to those who don't want to have multiple ACC's give us the chance to buy multiple character slots. In other games this resolved by double names. First account, Second? Character.
And talking about character names? Also a good idea to give us the name tag opportunity. Not too much character is necessary. The point is, to make possible tho show our wing / nationality / whatever.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

Wasn't that already a done deal (at least for the PvPers) with engineers ?
They had to buy horizons, just to level the odds, didn't they ?
Ok, they didn't have to, they also had the choice to just walk away from the game. (yes, that was sarcasm)

Yep. The pay to win argument probably died with Engineers.

I hope FD stick to their guns and allow multi-boxing, even if they remove the pip and extra credits from idle passengers. Multi-boxing has other benefits... a chance to make some new kinds of exploration videos - lets face it, mutlicrew has sod all else for explorers!

Demo vid...

[video=youtube;9ER0G_9Cjh4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ER0G_9Cjh4[/video]

 

[who?]

I thought Sandro's reaction to the megaship question was one of the most interesting (do they jump / can we store ships on them). Instead of the usual maybe/it's on the list/no timelines no guarantees we got a firm "no comment". Which, if Google Translate is correctly converting from the original Sandrish, means definitely yes.

 

[VR Golgot]

I thought Sandro's reaction to the megaship question was one of the most interesting (do they jump / can we store ships on them). Instead of the usual maybe/it's on the list/no timelines no guarantees we got a firm "no comment". Which, if Google Translate is correctly converting from the original Sandrish, means definitely yes.

Can't rep ya right now, but yep, that was definitely the interesting facial expression of the stream . More kind of a 'want to say something, but shouldn't yet'. Combined with the not actually saying no bit, t'was intriguing . I'm pretty sure they will get used to represent the ship transfers at some point, (hopefully with added gameplay aspects). And people seem up for the hitching a ride idea. Could be fun.

 

[Ignition]

Disappointing as it is to hear Legs cast so far into the future, Sandro's not wrong to state this is basically adding a whole new game to an existing game. Even with the added 6 months that's not 'make a game' amounts of dev time by any means. I was hoping something modular was closer to production than his words suggest, but can't honestly say I'm that surprised. Even broken down into ship internals, EVA, planetary and station Legs, each one is a massive technical ask, and that's before you even get to the gameplay.

Not sure where you got the funds stuff from. Cash balance, revenue and operating profit are all down this financial year. Some of that's due to long term investment (Coaster dev, general dev work on the Cobra Engine, Elite 'Season 3 & 4' stuff), but even so, it's not really the case that they're raking in the cash and sitting back basking. (Sure they could go more gung ho with liquidity they've got, but not sure their investors would be fans of that).

Absolutely no idea why you place the significance that you do on consoles.

But other than that carry on

Sandro said multicrew is as it is because of resources and time and thats why I said that. 2.3 was supposed to be around october 2016 and then they changed the release date to 2017. The release of 2.3 will be around end of march or early april so there's a delay of about 6 months and what do be get for multicrew? a gunner which is a camera to shoot turets.

The gameplay is bad (IMO) because its meant to be played on a console and that prevents the game to become more complex from a gamer pov.

If they don't have enough resources and time they shouldn't be doing 2 games at the same time because the products end up beeing really mediocre.

 

[Kubicide]

Both clearly not low effort 'copy and paste'. IE:

• Altered flight mechanics, added fighter model, launch & docking mechanic from moving ship, voiced AI and related UI interface. Taken together this is not a low tier effort.
• The Gunner role is clearly more dev work than 'debug cam + polish'. It's got an intelligent viewing mode which keeps target and host ship in sight while still maintaining clear sight lines, plus the various UI to make it legible and interactible etc. Discounting additions and increased functionality as 'polish' is also just daft.

Love how you discount the Cmdr Creator addition because 'it doesn't add gameplay'. (And somehow ignore the tech work gone into matchmaking and ship-sharing, coz that... oh, um...)

There's plenty to gripe about re ED's arc. Making up imaginary gripes is a ridiculous pastime.

Not discounting anything at all LOL! Calling it for what it is. And it's not imaginary as I'm certainly not alone in saying that the creator adds nothing and, frankly, most solo players will likely find it useless as well.

And about the tech work, matchmaking, etc., you're right: even MORE cut'n'paste from CQC!

But please tell us how it adds to the gameplay? What new gaming element does the creator toy bring? Also tell us what new gameplay does multicrew bring as one can already Wing up, fly SLF's and do combat, no? So what's new here? I'll check back here in a few months to see if you've found anything yet...

 

[VR Golgot]

Sandro said multicrew is as it is because of resources and time and thats why I said that. 2.3 was supposed to be around october 2016 and then they changed the release date to 2017. The release of 2.3 will be around end of march or early april so there's a delay of about 6 months and what do be get for multicrew? a gunner which is a camera to shoot turets.

The gameplay is bad (IMO) because its meant to be played on a console and that prevents the game to become more complex from a gamer pov.

If they don't have enough resources and time they shouldn't be doing 2 games at the same time because the products end up beeing really mediocre.

Ah yeah fair play, I glitched and thought you were talking about Legs for some reason, my bad.

The main designer assigned to Multicrew started on it 6 months ago though. So the delays didn't buy it 6 more months of design time, it just bought it the 6 months at all, it seems. It looks like there was a domino rally of projects getting pushed back. (It seems to have bought long-rolling teams like the Cmdr Creator guys more time though at least, and the core delivery there is pretty solid I'd say, but teams with a shorter lead time haven't been bought luxurious amounts of R&D)

On those grounds I can see why they're still running up against time and resource walls. I'm not saying the delay and update standards haven't been underwhelming at times, but you have to work with the reality in front of you. They seem to be doing what they can with the resources they've got.

Your point about FDev's franchise model benefiting them more than us is fair enough in many ways, but they'd also be putting all their eggs in one basket to go all or nothing on ED. It would be a massive punt. A sensible company pretty much wouldn't do that. And FDev are a very pragmatic company, despite being one that risks making space games . I think honestly we're looking at another 'Would you rather have 1/4 of ED, or no ED at all' scenario...

I think that gameplay-due-to-console argument is pretty much supposition. Anything Engis or Tactical were laid out to do were menu based. Nothing a console couldn't do with current interfaces, not technically challenging. (There are always payoffs in any decision, and consoles will almost certainly mean some things never get done that could have worked on PC-alone. This just doesn't look like one of them to me. On the plus side, if consoles help massively sustain ED's audience, and prolong its lifetime, a loada stuff might get done that would never have got done on PC alone )

 

[knowles2]

I'm truly disappointed to hear of no multicrew in SC. That would have been a great player-as-passenger view feature as well as optionally joining a multicrew from the same station without holo-me. Well, they want to see how it goes, so it still seems like it's a testing phase even after beta. Hopefully they get rid of holo-me once they do have spacelegs like five years from now along with NPC crew on the gunner and nav stations. And insta-travel would involve paying a passenger fee on some transport. So some staggered time passing roleplay to account for insta-travel.

They will keep in Holome so that players don't have to physically meet up every time they want to play a multicrew game. Hopefully physically meeting up will be requirements for some missions, say prisoner extractions or raids on colonies.

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Sandro said multicrew is as it is because of resources and time and thats why I said that. 2.3 was supposed to be around october 2016 and then they changed the release date to 2017.

That was an assumption made by the player base, Frontier never released any details about the expected release dates on anything involving Horizons. Precisely to avoid this kind of thing.

 

[Godsailsaqueen]

Ok, gotta pretend I did not see this.

As much as I love the character, he's always the bringer of "bad" news. And he's not always good at defending his vision of the game... If I had to sum up what he said about multi-crew, it's more or less in the lines of it's bare bones right now, but it will only evolve if it meets success so you'd better like it barebones folks or end of the story!.
oh, and :
"Multi-account exploits? Double profits by being idle and pip bonus etc? Don't really see that as a problem. If someone's willing to buy game twice to get mild benefits, maybe big benefits, we're not going to stop them".

Well... That's the first time I see such a clear stance on P2win or whatever you'll call it...
Okay, moving on.

 

[Ignition]

That was an assumption made by the player base, Frontier never released any details about the expected release dates on anything involving Horizons. Precisely to avoid this kind of thing.

Wrong, it was clearly stated on their website, 2.1 2.2 2.3 and 2.4 to be realeased IN 2016.

The only assumption I've made was the release of 2.3 around october 2016.

FD changed the release dates when 2.1 was delayed a year ago.

 

[VR Golgot]

That was an assumption made by the player base, Frontier never released any details about the expected release dates on anything involving Horizons. Precisely to avoid this kind of thing.

Nah the initial schedule on the official site was an annual release. 2.3 was scheduled for 'Fall 2016'

 

[Moonax IRL]

Disappointing as it is to hear Legs cast so far into the future, Sandro's not wrong to state this is basically adding a whole new game to an existing game. Even with the added 6 months that's not 'make a game' amounts of dev time by any means. I was hoping something modular was closer to production than his words suggest, but can't honestly say I'm that surprised. Even broken down into ship internals, EVA, planetary and station Legs, each one is a massive technical ask, and that's before you even get to the gameplay.

Not sure where you got the funds stuff from. Cash balance, revenue and operating profit are all down this financial year. Some of that's due to long term investment (Coaster dev, general dev work on the Cobra Engine, Elite 'Season 3 & 4' stuff), but even so, it's not really the case that they're raking in the cash and sitting back basking. (Sure they could go more gung ho with liquidity they've got, but not sure their investors would be fans of that).

Absolutely no idea why you place the significance that you do on consoles.

But other than that carry on

I think I disagreed with you previously on a related thread recently when you made the above highlighted point and I have to admit you were right and I was wrong. I was under the illusion that FD had a plan and space legs was catered for from the beginning. Listening to Sandro it appears they are making it up as they go along and coming up with any kind of rubbish to explain whatever is the most expedient/easy to implement. Mulitcrew as implemented was not even envisaged as such when Horizons was initially released because Sandro admitted that the Keelback was put in game w/o the foresight of MC as is. What kind of mickey mouse effort is that, as if the development is done on the hoof, so to speak.

Now we are told space legs is far, far into the future, and that`s IF it even happens because as you said its like a whole new game needs to be added to ED. Did these jokers not plan for space legs from the start only to find they cant do it, are we to be left staring out the cockpit window for the next few years while FD try to keep 3 or 4 projects in the air at the one time. I have the Lifetime pass, but if I didn`t I would not be buying Season 3, my advice to anyone is keep your powder dry and wait 18 mths -2 yrs to pick it up, it may have been fully released at that stage and you`ll actually know what you`re buying, because as of now I think FD & Sandro don`t even have a clue what Season 3 is or how it will end. These guys will have dropped the ball and people will just move elsewhere as the gaming world moves on and FD continue with their snail`s pace development.

We now know why FD will not come forward with a dev plan, the reason is because they don`t even know where the game is going themselves.

 

[CMDR DarkxXPhoenixXx]

I think I disagreed with you previously on a related thread recently when you made the above highlighted point and I have to admit you were right and I was wrong. I was under the illusion that FD had a plan and space legs was catered for from the beginning. Listening to Sandro it appears they are making it up as they go along and coming up with any kind of rubbish to explain whatever is the most expedient/easy to implement. Mulitcrew as implemented was not even envisaged as such when Horizons was initially released because Sandro admitted that the Keelback was put in game w/o the foresight of MC as is. What kind of mickey mouse effort is that, as if the development is done on the hoof, so to speak.

Now we are told space legs is far, far into the future, and that`s IF it even happens because as you said its like a whole new game needs to be added to ED. Did these jokers not plan for space legs from the start only to find they cant do it, are we to be left staring out the cockpit window for the next few years while FD try to keep 3 or 4 projects in the air at the one time. I have the Lifetime pass, but if I didn`t I would not be buying Season 3, my advice to anyone is keep your powder dry and wait 18 mths -2 yrs to pick it up, it may have been fully released at that stage and you`ll actually know what you`re buying, because as of now I think FD & Sandro don`t even have a clue what Season 3 is or how it will end. These guys will have dropped the ball and people will just move elsewhere as the gaming world moves on and FD continue with their snail`s pace development.

We now know why FD will not come forward with a dev plan, the reason is because they don`t even know where the game is going themselves.

http://imgur.com/a/FNHNp

 

[VR Golgot]

I was under the illusion that FD had a plan and space legs was catered for from the beginning. Listening to Sandro it appears they are making it up as they go along...

To be honest I think both things are true. They do have big end-game plans, but they're mainly making it up as they go along to get there. Pretty pragmatic ultimately, you can't code it all in from the start, and agile dev is nothing new. I mean they planned for the cockpits to be utilised as co-op spaces, and now they've come to do it they've made some changes (seat orientation), but essentially they work. The Keelback probably speaks to a different issue though. Chances are that because Multicrew is one of their 'made up along the way' stepping stones that they hadn't decided that ship launched fighters would be a Multicrew function, so they didn't think to provide seating.

That kind of mistake isn't the end of the world. I think the bigger problem is (a) they'll probably hit more of these issues as the game improvises its way into a bigger state, and (b) they could easily hit walls along the way that make some desired aims too difficult. Legs is clearly making them sweat, and no surprise. Planning is one thing, executing is another...

Brabes has said some vaguely comforting things on this front. They've done the difficult before, IE creating craters with draw distances of 1000s of kms etc. And big problems can get easier in a strange way once you've got your teeth into them. I think the main lessons we should learn here though are: Don't expect all the dreams to become reality, some will definitely fall by the wayside. And definitely don't expect any of it quickly