Saying goodbye to VR.

Over the years I've been upgrading my gaming setup with an eye towards VR. I still want to play other space games so a decent non-VR setup is also important. Recently I reached a milestone: monster computer (5950X and 3090), simpit (RSeat, Virpil stick/throttle/buttonpads), Butt-kicker (makes the whole thing vibrate), 48-inch 4K 120hz display, and a Valve Index.

Before this, I played Elite on a more modest setup using an Oculus Rift CV1. The VR experience blew my mind at the time. I spent over 1k hours doing combat and exploration in VR. So you can imagine my excitement to play with the upgraded setup above.

Shockingly (to me), today I decided to permanently shelve the VR HMD and stick to using TrackIR from now on.

I'd like to share my rationale below. Mainly to share my experience with those of you who are building a new gaming rig/area/room for yourselves. Maybe this will save you some time/money or encourage you to test out your assumptions. Or if you're stuck in the same predicament I was... you're not alone!

Up until recently, VR was the most immersive way to play Elite for me. I would say by an order of magnitude at least. You simply can't compare a standard gaming monitor to ~120 degrees of view with a sense of depth. But as soon as the simpit entered the picture with a 48-inch monitor, VR became only marginally more immersive. In some ways less immersive!

How can this be?
  • Graphics quality in VR is still bad. It's especially bad in Elite dude to the longstanding aliasing issues it's had. You're going to get noticeable jagged edges in stations no matter what. Switching between VR and monitor+TrackIR is like putting on a pair of prescription glasses for the first time. You'll get all sorts of glare issues, dynamic range issues, etc. There are ways to minimize that stuff in VR (I've spent many many hours doing so) but it never really goes away.
  • Wearing a bulky HMD on your face for hours (I like to play for 3-5 hours at a time) is not comfortable. Your face will have an outline after. It's irritated my skin in the past (imagine the sweat build-up). There are solutions like creams and taking breaks.
  • If you have a simpit with button boxes (I have 2, example here) then you can't see them while wearing the VR headset. The button boxes aren't a deal breaker since in the past I mapped everything to my HOTAS buttons anyway. However the boxes add a nice level immersion and they're just fun to use. For example in the button box I linked to, the little button under the emergency flap is used for engaging the FSD.
  • With a 48-inch display a few feet away combined with TrackIR, your effective field of view is almost the same as VR. Tunnel vision is a big part of that. You do not feel like you're sitting in your room while playing. This excludes depth perception; VR will always be unmatched here.
  • Reaching for drinks, my phone, etc is much more convenient. It's not that big a deal but it's yet another cost of having the bulky HMD on my face. Last week I mounted a tablet within reach of simpit seat and it's so cool. I can have Inara or some other reference open there. I could do this with floating screens in VR, but a tablet feels much more tactile and immersive to me.
  • You don't have an immersive fallback if VR is not supported. Think FPS in Elite or all of Star Citizen. You may not care about that stuff now (or ever) so I left it at the bottom of the list. I've had a lot of fun playing old school and new early access space games that don't work well in VR.
And there you have it. When I took a step back, the only advantage I see with VR (after loving it for years!) is the sense of depth. The feeling of depth is like nothing else but it's only one (and I'd argue not that huge) component of immersion. Sound, comfort, and high fidelity graphics are important too. When you combine a simpit, large display, HOTAS, button boxes, butt-kicker, track IR, and a nice pair of headphones... VR just isn't worth it anymore.

If you have the space for a simpit I'd highly recommend considering it.

It doesn't need to cost a lot of money as a lot of it can be DIY'd. I highly regret buying an RSeat -- I wish I had DIY'd the entire simpit chassi using wood blocks and a real car's racing seat. The button boxes can be DIY'd too or bought from DIYers on a budget. There's a DIY version of TrackIR (OpenTrack). The HOTAS and monitor can be bought entry-level and upgraded over time.

It's a legitimately fun project (even if it takes years) and this one man's experience is that it blows VR out of the water.

So... goodbye to VR... it was nice while it lasted.
 
Last edited:
You upgraded your system but
Before this, I played Elite on a more modest setup using an Oculus Rift CV1.
…and are now doing the comparison? 😁

Personally, having gone from the CV1 (with a GTX 1060) to a Rift S (with a GTX 1080) to a Quest2 (with an RTX 3070ti) - I hope you enjoy your rather cool-sounding new setup, but I know what I’ll be very happy sticking with 👍
 
Thanks Kestrel1 for your personal perspective and experience. I've often wondered about the same things with VR. While it's an unmatched experience in a lot of ways, I found myself asking the same questions about my actual gaming sessions and staying visually connected with the real world. While having tried VR but not owning a HMD, I use TrackIR and value the fact that I can dip in and out of the game world so easily. I guess there is no better way, it is entirely personal.

Now, having said that, with EDO things are obviously a little different. With no on-foot VR and completely broken on-foot head-tracking, EDO is not a good experience for either solution. If Frontier can either get on-foot head-tracking working correctly or just simply disable it when on-foot (like SRV Turret Mode) then things will be better. It's a sad state that after 6 updates that on-foot head-tracking is still completely broken.
 
Thanks Kestrel1 for your personal perspective and experience. I've often wondered about the same things with VR. While it's an unmatched experience in a lot of ways, I found myself asking the same questions about my actual gaming sessions and staying visually connected with the real world. While having tried VR but not owning a HMD, I use TrackIR and value the fact that I can dip in and out of the game world so easily. I guess there is no better way, it is entirely personal.
Yep, there's definitely no objective "best" in this area.

One of the reasons I'm comfortable setting aside VR for a while is I'm starting to feel like the industry is slowing down. Facebook's acquisition of Oculus was the nail in the coffin. Anyone in the tech sector knew at the time that Facebook would end up gutting Oculus as we knew it and, sure enough, it's exactly what they did. RIP to the Rift. Sure it was annoying but it was also alarming... Oculus was the flagship VR company and they decided to nope out of it. Then Facebook basically noped out as well (as far as us PCVR users are concerned at least). That's the writing on the wall as far as I see it... at least for now.

Now, having said that, with EDO things are obviously a little different. With no on-foot VR and completely broken on-foot head-tracking, EDO is not a good experience for either solution. If Frontier can either get on-foot head-tracking working correctly or just simply disable it when on-foot (like SRV Turret Mode) then things will be better. It's a sad state that after 6 updates that on-foot head-tracking is still completely broken.
In the TrackIR settings you can configure a button to "Pause" the TrackIR device. It's in the same place where you configure the "Center" button. Any time I disembark from my ship to on-foot then I'll press that button. I keep the button really easy to access because I use it when flying as well. Like if I'm reaching for a beer I don't want the screen to go all crazy trying to follow TrackIR.

I have TrackIR working in Star Citizen and when I'm walking around it's actually really annoying. I still keep it on because I like being able to tilt my head and look at stuff though. There's no reason why it couldn't be made to work properly and I agree that FDev screwed the pooch on that. Not supporting VR was bad enough but not supporting headtrackers is such a face palm IMO.
 
I still prefer VR :p
I simply hate track IR, ever single shake or movement of the head is shown on the screen so I see an unrealistic relative movement that makes me sick. In VR of course I don't perceive any relative head movement.
Another point why I hate track IR is that when you want to look right you have to move the head right and then turn the eyes back to the left, because the monitor does not follow your head of course! So I also find it impractical.

For the moment I switched to Flight Simulator. I don't plan to come back to ED until FDEV fix all the mess (especially the poor performance) and they finally introduce some new gameplay for exploration and ships.
 
Last edited:
I have that set up with a 48 CX and a Vive Pro 2 - err, sure, you do you :). VR still the best way for "me" though. The Index was great, but it's all about clarity - and VR is constantly improving.
 
Why not both? ;)
20210913_092536.jpg
 
In the TrackIR settings you can configure a button to "Pause" the TrackIR device. It's in the same place where you configure the "Center" button. Any time I disembark from my ship to on-foot then I'll press that button. I keep the button really easy to access because I use it when flying as well. Like if I'm reaching for a beer I don't want the screen to go all crazy trying to follow TrackIR.
Indeed. I have that whole thread linked to above about disabling head-tracking temporarily when on-foot. It's been a point of discussion. So yes, ever since EDO was released, I have been using a keybind to temporarily disable TrackIR when on-foot but it is very inconvenient. If they aren't going to fix head-tracking when on-foot then they simply need to give us an option to temporarily disable it automatically when on-foot, as I said, just like they did with SRV Turrent Mode.
 
Ha! This is the first time where it's actually worth it to ask if I can have your stuff, and I'm glad I beat Bottom Hat to it! 😄

I also heard from flight sim players that they are returning to flat screens. VR is just a bit too much hassle still for a short game session, performance issues aside.
 
For me immersion is everything and I would love to use VR but while you gain a more spatially deep experience I find the headsets very uncomfortable over long play sessions and the fact that you can't see the physical controls is a major issue for me. I adapted a computer chair (see below) and have my hotas, a tablet running gameglass, a mini keyboard and a mouse pad attached to the arms. I have TrackIR and use voice attack. The plan is to upgrade my aging machine and get a wide screen monitor for the game and 2 additional monitors to run Inara, EDDB etc. Eventually I want to build a dedicated cockpit with a car seat on runners

 
Last edited:
I'm not a "VR only" kind of guy. In fact, my VR headset has been in a box all summer long. But I also disagree that head tracking comes anywhere close to offering the same experience as VR. What makes VR so immersive is that I can look to my left, right, up, and over my shoulder, and see things projected in real space where they are in virtual space. If I'm looking "over my shoulder" on a flat screen in front of me, then I'm not really looking over my shoulder. Nor does head tracking "feel right" for this. I'd much rather have my gyroscopic head look in my DS4 controller TBH.

You also get stereovision in VR, which really does make a difference with things up close, like the cockpit of your ship. It's not so great at things further away, however. In fact, if I'm just looking off toward the horizon of a planet while parked in my SRV, then in some ways it feels more "real" on my big 4K TV than it does in VR, because of the resolution difference. This is why I tend to do my exploring in 2D (especially since 99% of it is via the flat FSS), but if I visit a place that feels like it would be more immersive in VR, like a deep canyon, then I can easily switch to experience the best of both worlds.

Another thing that head tracking does not provide AFAIK is lateral head movement. We get depth perception from temporal parallax as much as we do stereo vision, but in Elite our head is welded to a steel pole rather than a flexible neck unless we are in VR. In a game like X4, which is 2D only, I can still get a good sense of scale of a ship like my destroyer by walking side-to-side on the bridge while looking out the main window. While not the same as VR, it does give me that parallax depth missing in a game like Elite.

So in conclusion, if I'm flying combat sorties in my Eagle, nothing beats VR for immersion. But if I'm looking for the best "gazing off into space / the horizon", then I agree with the OP when it comes to the high definition and contrast of a nice large monitor or TV.
 
Indeed. I have that whole thread linked to above about disabling head-tracking temporarily when on-foot. It's been a point of discussion. So yes, ever since EDO was released, I have been using a keybind to temporarily disable TrackIR when on-foot but it is very inconvenient. If they aren't going to fix head-tracking when on-foot then they simply need to give us an option to temporarily disable it automatically when on-foot, as I said, just like they did with SRV Turrent Mode.

That "other game" automatically disables TrackIR when on foot. 🤷‍♂️
 
I don't think you can compare the experience in VR to anything you can do on a flat screen. Without the stereoscopic effect it's just not comparable.
I can see what you mean when it comes to resolution, which is why I went a bought a Reverb G2. The problem is Odyssey has made it impossible to maintain 90fps in all areas, even with my 5900X and 3090.
So I'm back to using a 34 inch ultrawide, which is nice, but in no way as immersive as VR.

Yes, you can't see the keyboard and occasionally when you need to type you have to lift the headset off, but for me that's easily a fair trade off than just a large monitor.

I occasionally go back into VR (with horribly low settings) just to get that feeling again like you're actually in a ship, but the stuttering is so bad I don't stay for long.

I can't wait for update 8 when they promised massive optimisations. Maybe they can sort the frametimes out. Maybe...
 
I found Elite and VR 4 years ago and have over 3000 hours in.
There in now way I can or will go back to flat screen at all, although I am now finding other VR games like DCS because of Fdev lack of support in Odyssey and poor performance.

it’s like this I play in VR or I don’t play at all !
 
Glad you can move forward without Vr. I tried and can't so I put the disk on the ground and ed on it then thru it in the garage.
 
For me immersion is everything and I would love to use VR but while you gain a more spatially deep experience I find the headsets very uncomfortable over long play sessions and the fact that you can't see the physical controls is a major issue for me. I adapted a computer chair (see below) and have my hotas, a tablet running gameglass, a mini keyboard and a mouse pad attached to the arms. I have TrackIR and use voice attack. The plan is to upgrade my aging machine and get a wide screen monitor for the game and 2 additional monitors to run Inara, EDDB etc. Eventually I want to build a dedicated cockpit with a car seat on runners

That's a beautiful setup!

Regarding the monitor, make sure that (if you can) you shoot for 120hz @ 4K. I tried several configurations ranging from 30hz to 120hz @ 1080p to 4K. 120hz@4K is god tier by far. It may sound obvious to some people but I had no idea how big the difference would be.
 
I'm not a "VR only" kind of guy. In fact, my VR headset has been in a box all summer long. But I also disagree that head tracking comes anywhere close to offering the same experience as VR. What makes VR so immersive is that I can look to my left, right, up, and over my shoulder, and see things projected in real space where they are in virtual space. If I'm looking "over my shoulder" on a flat screen in front of me, then I'm not really looking over my shoulder. Nor does head tracking "feel right" for this. I'd much rather have my gyroscopic head look in my DS4 controller TBH.

You also get stereovision in VR, which really does make a difference with things up close, like the cockpit of your ship. It's not so great at things further away, however. In fact, if I'm just looking off toward the horizon of a planet while parked in my SRV, then in some ways it feels more "real" on my big 4K TV than it does in VR, because of the resolution difference. This is why I tend to do my exploring in 2D (especially since 99% of it is via the flat FSS), but if I visit a place that feels like it would be more immersive in VR, like a deep canyon, then I can easily switch to experience the best of both worlds.

Another thing that head tracking does not provide AFAIK is lateral head movement. We get depth perception from temporal parallax as much as we do stereo vision, but in Elite our head is welded to a steel pole rather than a flexible neck unless we are in VR. In a game like X4, which is 2D only, I can still get a good sense of scale of a ship like my destroyer by walking side-to-side on the bridge while looking out the main window. While not the same as VR, it does give me that parallax depth missing in a game like Elite.

So in conclusion, if I'm flying combat sorties in my Eagle, nothing beats VR for immersion. But if I'm looking for the best "gazing off into space / the horizon", then I agree with the OP when it comes to the high definition and contrast of a nice large monitor or TV.
Thanks for sharing dude. Exploring in 2D vs using VR for other places is really clever. I think I'd do something like that it didn't involve so many moving parts.

You mentioned you like flying an Eagle. One of my favorite ships to fly in VR is an Imperial Eagle. But just not any Imperial Eagle. This one is fully engineered to a max speed for 800 m/s. It's INSANE. LMK if you'd like the build and I'll throw together a Coriolis link. One (of many) fun things to do in a build like that is to visit a CG (or any place where gankers like to hang out), interdict gankers/griefers, and run circles around them in silent running. I equip mine with frag cannons. A single load of ammo can bring down any NPC ship no matter how big. It can bring down big fat CMDR ships but only if they're not built for combat - don't ask me how I know that.
 
Back
Top Bottom