Newcomer / Intro Scanning for Dummies -- How to find stuff.

[D.D.Hariman]

OK,, While I still think it is stupid game design this video >> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3UfwiG4zNJfTjI0WmI2dVI5Rlk << does indeed clearly demonstrate that at least the Basic Discovery Scanner is omni directional in both passive and active modes.

So, I am off to gather up the CR needed for the Advanced Discovery Scanner so I can go shoot fish in a barrel.

OH,, That system in the video was worth 67,841 CR and it gave me plenty of opportunity to test the > https://www.amazon.com/Genovation-48.../dp/B00UH3E23G << keypad.

I will be updating the https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/320509-Input-Devices thread in a couple of days..

Hi boys and girls,

In this thread >> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/322343-System-Ekonir << I got a lot of good tips but I didn't get the actual answer I now think is correct.

First off, The Discovery Scanner (Basic, Intermediate or Advanced) MUST be assigned to a fire group. If you don't, you are stuck having to get right on top of something to find it.
Next, to actually use it ACTIVE MODE where it can actually be of use, you have to hold the fire button for that group down and wait for the scanner to charge.
The Scanner only look in the circle 10 degrees directly in front of the ship.

Now with this basic information the things like "Parallax identification" "speed/direction anomaly" and "orbit line" tracing can make finding things simple even with the BDS.

There is another method that can also be useful. Watch for other ships and then travel in the direction they came from charging the scanner regularly.

I have now had time to use the Detailed Surface Scanner (DSS) and for it, or the Discovery Scanner to get detailed information, you MUST target what you want scanned. The easiest way is to select something in the system maps page and point at it. If it doesn't start scanning it may be out of range so travel toward it keeping it in the 10 Deg Circle.

The DSS range is indeed based on the size of the object, but, doing an active scan with the Discovery scanner seems to increase the range of the DSS.

YMMV

Ok. Watch this video and then you decide for yourself.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3UfwiG4zNJfS2VrQy1PaEhaX2c

 

[Strangepork]

They are hard to find.

 

[D.D.Hariman]

They are hard to find.

What is hard to find??

 

[Para Handy]

1. In this thread >> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/322343-System-Ekonir << I got a lot of good tips but I didn't get the actual answer I now think is correct.

First off, The Discovery Scanner (Basic, Intermediate or Advanced) MUST be assigned to a fire group. If you don't, you are stuck having to get right on top of something to find it.
Next, to actually use it ACTIVE MODE where it can actually be of use, you have to hold the fire button for that group down and wait for the scanner to charge.
2. The Scanner only look in the circle 10 degrees directly in front of the ship.

.................

3. The DSS range is indeed based on the size of the object, but, doing an active scan with the Discovery scanner seems to increase the range of the DSS.

YMMV

1. I did ask if the answers were clear.

2. WRONG - the discovery scanner is omnidirectional, only the Detailed Surface Scanner (DSS) or ship's inbuilt targeting scanner requires you to be oriented towards the target.

3. That is just wrong.

 

[D.D.Hariman]

1. I did ask if the answers were clear.

2. WRONG - the discovery scanner is omnidirectional, only the Detailed Surface Scanner (DSS) or ship's inbuilt targeting scanner requires you to be oriented towards the target.

3. That is just wrong.

The BDS (probably the other two as well) ONLY provide an UNEXPLORED discovery in the short range passive omni-directional mode.

If your contention is that the Discovery Scanners are Always Omni-directional the tests I detail below don't support that idea.

ADS Active scan Range "Infinite" Passive Range 33.36LS
IDS Active Scan Range 1000LS Passive Range 3.34LS
BDS Active Scan Range 500LS Passive Range .33LS

With the BDS I still had to target the object to get the limited info it would provide beyond listing that object as UNEXPLORED and even then it must be kept inside the 10 degree circle. (This actually results in a cone and at 500LS is covering a quite large volume of space.

I have played with this by turning one or the other BDS or DSS and even BOTH off in systems I had previously "found objects " or, because there is a station displaying in the system map but it is hanging out in nowhere indicating there is an undiscovered/reported planet but had not gotten close enough do the discovery (either active or passive) or to get the more detailed information by targeting.

Then in my testing above, I should have been able to cruise to a point where I had reason to believe there were two undiscovered planets within the "Active Range", Fired the Scanner and discovered both. I tried and it didn't happen. I had to be pointed so that the undiscovered planet was inside the 10 deg circle and inside the 500LS range for it to show up as "UNEXPLORED" then I could target it and get either the limited Discovery scanner details or if I turned on the DSS I could get the detailed information.

I have also played with it by sitting at the drop out point, firing the scanner, yawing or pitching a bit and firing it again and more than once when facing a different direction, I have discovered things I didn't discover in a different orientation.

So, IMHO the ACTIVE mode produces a Conical BEAM scan, not a long range omni-directional.

 

[CMDR Mr. Boombastic]

Maybe the confusion is that you are forgetting about the ship's in-built scanner which has nothing to do with any of the Discovery Scanners (BDS, IDS or ADS).
(EDIT: Perhaps with the discovery scanner in passive mode that somehow extends the in-built scanner capabilities but only if you facing the object within the 10 degree max angle.)

With the in-built scanner you can target an UNEXPLORED celestial body within the 10 degree circle for which a scan will initiate, and after some seconds the body will be identified. The distance at which this occurs depends on the size of the object you are scanning, AFAIK.

You can test this out by powering down your discovery scanners so you are unable to ping it.
The DSS is effectively an extension to the in-built scanner which provides additional information about the celestial body.

IIRC there are three levels to scanning. The latter two levels (2 & 3) are shown on your STATISTICS panel:
Level 1: Honk (Fire) a discovery scanner.
Level 2: Target the body with in-built scanner.
Level 3: Target the body with DSS fitted.

 

[d8veh]

If you have your scanner on the secondary fire button and then bind it to a switch that stays on, the scanner becomes automatic on anything you target in range of the scanner in any one instance. It has to be reset (off and on) for each new instance. This works for KWS, ADS, and wake scanner. The DSS is already automatic.

 

[Para Handy]

The BDS (probably the other two as well) ONLY provide an UNEXPLORED discovery in the short range passive omni-directional mode.

If your contention is that the Discovery Scanners are Always Omni-directional the tests I detail below don't support that idea.

ADS Active scan Range "Infinite" Passive Range 33.36LS
IDS Active Scan Range 1000LS Passive Range 3.34LS
BDS Active Scan Range 500LS Passive Range .33LS

With the BDS I still had to target the object to get the limited info it would provide beyond listing that object as UNEXPLORED and even then it must be kept inside the 10 degree circle. (This actually results in a cone and at 500LS is covering a quite large volume of space.

I have played with this by turning one or the other BDS or DSS and even BOTH off in systems I had previously "found objects " or, because there is a station displaying in the system map but it is hanging out in nowhere indicating there is an undiscovered/reported planet but had not gotten close enough do the discovery (either active or passive) or to get the more detailed information by targeting.

Then in my testing above, I should have been able to cruise to a point where I had reason to believe there were two undiscovered planets within the "Active Range", Fired the Scanner and discovered both. I tried and it didn't happen. I had to be pointed so that the undiscovered planet was inside the 10 deg circle and inside the 500LS range for it to show up as "UNEXPLORED" then I could target it and get either the limited Discovery scanner details or if I turned on the DSS I could get the detailed information.

I have also played with it by sitting at the drop out point, firing the scanner, yawing or pitching a bit and firing it again and more than once when facing a different direction, I have discovered things I didn't discover in a different orientation.

So, IMHO the ACTIVE mode produces a Conical BEAM scan, not a long range omni-directional.

Yeah, I'm afraid you have let a misunderstanding colour your impressions. I'll try to be very clear and to be complete I'll go through the whole thing, please excuse me if it is long winded:

Firstly, your ship has a built-in scanner that you cannot remove, it provides the targeting information that you see in your target panel when a selected (targeted) object (ship, beacon, astronomical body) is within the front view of your screen and is within range, the range being dependent ONLY upon the mass of the selected object. The scan takes a set time to complete it's scan and does not need to be assigned to a fire button.

To discover astronomical bodies you need to have fitted a discovery scanner, if you H-Jump into an "unknown" system with no discovery scanner fitted your sensor display will be blank and your ship does not register the presence of anything, leaving your nav panel unpopulated - so you can't target a body even though the star is filling your view.

Discovery scanners do have a "passive detection" ability, you can see this by h-jumping into an "unknown" system, after a short delay the star is displayed on your sensor display and you get the message that a new astronomical body is discovered. If there are other bodies within the passive range of your discovery scanner, it also displays them, the range at which they can detect things passively depends upon the grade of discovery scanner fitted. This is not directional, they detect anything within their range and the passive detection happens even when the discovery scanner fire-group is not active.

To DISCOVER more bodies in a system, the discovery scanner needs to be activated - for this it must be assigned to a fire button and be in the currently selected fire-group. When the scanner fires (after you have held the fire button down long enough for the charging bar to fill) every astronomical body within the range of that grade of discovery scanner, in all directions, is registered by your ship and displayed on your sensor display and in your nav panel. The range within which bodies are DISCOVERED is dependant upon the grade of discovery scanner, from basic, through intermediate up to advanced (which discovers everything in the system, no matter how far).

Having discovered astronomical bodies, they are shown on your nav panel (and in the system map) as "unexplored" and you have very little information about them. To gain more information about them (and to stop them being "unexplored" to you) you need to target them and allow your targeting scanner to complete it's scan after you get within range of the body and with the body in the centre part of your cockpit window. The range at which this scan can be done is dependent upon the mass of the body, so stars (and black holes) can be scanned from further than say gas giants which can be scanned from further than planets and so on down to moonlets and asteroid belts. This level of scan only gathers so much extra information about the body in general, like it's designation and type and if there are any surface settlements although it does provide "exploration" data worth more than just the discovery data. To gather more detailed information, like available materials on the planet, you need to enhance your in-built scanner with a Detailed Surface Scanner. This optional internal module does not need to be assigned a fire button and operates totally automatically, it just enhances the capability of the in-built targeting scanner plus of course if makes the data worth more even when you sell it.

Your experience of attempting to find bodies that made you think the discovery scanner was directional it totally at variance with everything I know and have experienced about discovery scanners. They discover anything within a sphere of radius determined by their grade, anything that appears different is either a positional artefact or a bug (and not one I have ever heard of).

Sorry that went on a bit and that it obviously stated things you know, I just wanted it to be complete and I hope that it clears up any misunderstanding.

Cheers

- - - Updated - - -

If you have your scanner on the secondary fire button and then bind it to a switch that stays on, the scanner becomes automatic on anything you target in range of the scanner in any one instance. It has to be reset (off and on) for each new instance. This works for KWS, ADS, Wake scanner and DSS.

1. You can't assign the DSS to a fire-button.

2. Are you sure that a BDS or IDS would re-scan continually as you move through a system? I have never heard of that.

 

[Iskariot]

What is hard to find??

They...

 

[D.D.Hariman]

Ok,, Why would the game be designed such that Discovery Scanners are ALWAYS OMNI-DIRECTIONAL in both passive (short range) and active (long range) modes??

If that is how it operates, why have two modes??

Why does the Active Mode list a 10 Degree view angle if it Omni-directional??

Game design would call for there to be some penalty for using the active mode to get the longer range.

The penalty is that it only gives long range in a narrow conical beam like a spot light.

In the case of the BDS the beam is 500LS long and with a 10 degree aperture that means, at the end of the beam, it only shows you a circle with an 87.5~ LS diameter.

To put this into perspective.

Passive with a BDS in our solar system would not even discover Mercury.

Active, if it was pointed in the right direction (to scan the whole orbit of Earth would take about 2.7 million separate scans -- obviously impossible) would barely reach Earth and might still not discover the moon if it was on the far side of the Earth from the the Sun.

A game designed with Onmi-diractional passive and narrow beam active requires players to have to understand and become proficiency at other methods of narrowing the places to look for things down.

Parallax, especially combined with orbit line tracing, speed/direction anomaly, back tracking other known/unknown ships gives additional challenge to the game.

Always Omni-directional destroys all the challenge.

I wonder if the Journals record when you make discoveries?? Have to go look..

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

The current system works well enough but we are missing a scanner (and content) that does ship to surface in more detail to support Exploration gameplay. If for example there was a genuinely interesting object(s) on a planets surface the chances of you finding it are ridiculous less it turns out to be some procedural fluff that isn't that interesting most of the time. ED has made a strong and innovative start to exploration but its limits are showing through now.

 

[Para Handy]

Ok,, Why would the game be designed such that Discovery Scanners are ALWAYS OMNI-DIRECTIONAL.......................

OK - you can believe what you want, I give up.

:|

 

[Valije]

There are 2 types of scanner:

- One type find bodies in the system and is always omnidirectional. Think of it as a sonnar: you send a signal in all directions and wait for the echo to come back. If you are just near a star or planet (IIRC 50 ls) in a few seconds they will be discovered automatically. To do a full-range scan you need to assign a key and "fire it".
- The other type will show planet/star properties. The basic scan comes with the sensors of the ship. If you need more detailed information (and more credits) you need to get the Detailed surface scanner. It is directional and you need to be close to the target to start it, but you don't need to "fire it". The distance activation is size dependent, not mass dependent. Even the smallest rocks can be scanned if you are are closer then 5 ls.

The best way to figure it out is just using them.

 

[PigKiller]

OK - you can believe what you want, I give up.

:|

Well...you tried. And you are of course correct.