Scientist/Laboratory Concept in ELITE DANGEROUS

Something like the observation turret that he has detailed there in that redit post, is pretty much what I'd actually expect the detailed surface scanner to be doing. Instead of it's current function of not a lot besides giving us some extra info. Oh yes, sorry, we also get a detailed view of a planet surface in the system map now too.

But yeah we should be able to see mineral and metal concentrations mapped out and areas of geological activity etc etc.

The scientists thing sounds very cool too, I'd be very much into that.
 
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Well, yes .. and no. I would like to see some love for exploration and science, but not watching scientists doing that, so I would only be the driver for them, but rather do scans, scientific experiments, discoveries on my own in a lab (once we get legs). As mentioned above this idea doesnt bring new gameplay to ED, it just varies existing ones.
 
I'm all for more science and exploration.

Perhaps with multi-crew coming they'll need to expand the activities that your crew-mates can do, and working the science station could be a good addition. I'd imagine that anything they add for multi-crew will also need to be doable by a lone Cmdr, but switching between the various stations in some way.
 
You mean something like this?


It is very simple to see that many are not satisfied with exploration and discovery in the game. All we have is a button to push to trigger a simplistic response and off to the next thing. Many find it ridiculous that there are so many things to be found and discovered yet there are virtually no tools to find things with.

It is good to have the wave scanner in the srv (when it works) yet at the same time we have nothing like that in our ships which is the primary exploration vehicle.

So people see all this out of game content and feel disconnected from the alien story line, then notice that when exploring how ridiculously difficult it is to find anything without some kind of sensor array. We then see all the out of game development going on and wonder if there exploring will ever go beyond flying around blindly pushing that same button over an over. One can even fly right past a planet that has great things ti discover but alas our ships have no sensors.

We then think back to out sci fi roots where we gained interest in space exploration a long time ago in a ... Ok then we are baffled at how inferior exploration still is in ED.

(Captain Kirk) Mr Sulu what is the course of that thing on the screen?
(Mr Sulu) I cant tell caption, long range sensors just stopped working when we dropped out of warp.
(Captain Kirk) Ahura what are you getting on the communication array?
(Ahura) Im sorry captain audio array has.. Just.. Disappeared!
(Captain Kirk) Mr Spock what kind of energy keeps rising from the object?
(Mr Spock) Most illogical captain we seem to have lost all sensor arrays. It appears we only have the view screen!


I'm sure many explorers can relate to the lack of instruments and how bare bones our ships are in this respect. I have not said much for the last 2 years about this problem because I know implementing this kind of stuff takes time.

However, It has been two years with many features added and it seems like FDs idea of exploration is only going to be flying around blind and pushing a button or two to trigger the next step of a story being spoon fed to a small audience.

FD prides themselves on a huge realistic galaxy so then it lends itself to the explorers in a big way. If they want that element to actually be useful as game play, explorers need more than there is in the way of instruments and scanners or tools for discovery. I don't expect everyone to understand or agree with this sentiment but I believe most who call themselves explorers would welcome a way to expand their game play in this way.


This is what I thought of when pondering what tool or mechanic could make the game interesting by way of giving ships active and passive sensors for exploration use. It is basically i tool that could be passively monitored or actively transmitted through all known major bands of wave lengths. From low audible tones to gamma ray bursts.

Here is a diagram of the entire spectrum
uc

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3...2VjR0hBLU8wQzA

Many great sci fi media use scanners of these types as it relates to real science as we know it. Sorry but the pics stopped working but you still can click the link.


First may I suggest that there be more variety regarding scanning modules. It would be logical that an ADS & DSS single module could be available for a size 2 or 3 slot. Also it is puzzling that larger ship sensors are so big and heavy yet do no more functions than a smaller ships sensors.

Given some thought I will try to convey my real life experience in "discovery" as an EMC technician. I have used a few types of test equipment to track down sources of emissions, mostly RF (radio frequency) from 100Hz to 80GHz. All emissions of course are directional and probes of different kinds detect them.

The same principal can be found in endless Sci Fi media as well as real life. This is sort of in the game now with the scanners but only ,get close and scanner works, type function. It would be much more true to science to have a 'frequency domain' type analyzer like a spectrum analyzer that we use today.

Here is an example of this type of display that might show quite a few signals in different wave lengths but in the same band relatively.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3ubDtWBAA8vck53TGpfYUpyZUU/view?usp=sharing
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/Xx...06k=w1039-h615

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3u...ew?usp=sharing

This is an example of some mixing of a few signals that likely are related to each other. A different band would be a nice feature. Bands could be segmented into 5 to 25 whatever makes sense to represent all the possibilities explorers might come across.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3...G1zRVNvby12OXM

https://drive.google.com/uc?view=exp...HhMOUJsOFczMFU

This screen is an example of the noise floor which may be greater or lesser depending on proximity to the source as all signals will change amplitude relative to an explorers position.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3...mVhcno5SkJOWFE

This is a bit more detailed digital type display with harmonics tapering off to the left, and a unrelated strong signal in the center. These are probably a bit to detailed for in game use but with in game elements sorted into different bands a tool like this would be not only engaging but can inform you of all sorts of things that cannot be seen with eyes just as in the real science of radiating wave lengths.



As of now we have almost no tools as explorers to discover things (non stellar body) in a system. I know that the spawning element of the game presents a problem with my proposed mechanic, but there are already quite a few persistent POI's in game as well.

I would imagine that in 3302 that ships would be able to equip a scanner with a FFT type frequency domain display that could detect all wave lengths and a small hud window that would be a main element of such a discovery tool.

In regards to assigning wave lengths it should be fairly simple because we can refer to what we know about real astronomy and give stellar objects a rough pattern of a real anomaly.

Audio is also an aspect that can add useful and interesting dynamics like the SRV scanner has. These are the things we use today to explore the space around us. Would it not be cool to do the same in your ship where ever you go?

Oh, and how do we discover other life forms? With these same tools today like SETI. So instead of just traveling to a place we can keep a ear and an eye on a realistic 3302 ship scanner.

The principal is simple, the closer you get to anything the higher the signal would be. Yet there is always a background noise floor from stellar bodies. This noise is greater in amplitude than smaller things to be discovered until a pilot is close enough. This is where discovery becomes interesting. Having to track down a signal in the noise.

Different materials, crashed ships, distress beacons, anything would naturally have a different frequency and amplitude ie beacons vs materials, or react when hit with active probing scan.

This would be a much more engaging way for explorers to discover things in game in a realistic manner. A player would (like with the srv scanner) gain an understanding of what signals in the spectrum are likely to be. Player could focus on a chosen signal, follow it as it rises in amplitude until the general area of the source is found.
In space there might be little background noise so the signal could be found easier than say on a planet which would have more background noise,thus more difficult to pinpoint.

Then the srv would come into play. The ship sensors would normally be too sensitive and overloaded with many signal sources aside from a transmitter like an operational beacon.

To me this realistic type of mechanic could be a great foundation to build exploration on. I know that this might require more persistence but the gain of engagement and realistic type of discovery could be so worth it. Like focusing on escape pod signals in deep space and bringing a pilot back to life, who would be grateful and reward you or even join your crew out of respect and loyalty. As the player you might feel like 'It took me hours to track your signal down, I almost missed your signal completely and so on.


Now how this could be used in puzzles could be like a passive scan to analyze and attempts to get different responses from objects or anomalies. Different energy bursts like a certain visible color of light plus a tone may trigger a reaction. Like in Close Encounters, communication was attempted by a computer linked to different audio tones and colors of visible light. These are realistic forms of interaction or communication that could provide interesting exploration game play.

Now there are also other uses for an active array that can transmit. A gamma ray burst could realistically do some serious damage to some objects or a burst at 2.4Ghz would tend to heat up anything containing water as microwave ovens do in reality.

The possibilities of such a scanner array become endless, and depth to exploration much greater.

Now let me try to convey how a complete system might work. First POIs can be scattered across large areas of space these could be persistent or spawned ether way I would think. These objects could be repeater beacons in space, (they receive and re transmit maintaining data integrity) combat aftermath, high grade emissions, whatever floating in space the debris would be detectable (with the dynamic sensor type I outlined) from long range in a system if you get within say a few thousand Ls. On planets POIs it would be logical to have to get closer due to more background noise. These sources could be wrecked ships, downed probes, beacons, whatever makes sense that might have information to be collected or things to be picked up.

These many different POIs would hold a small piece of information that would lead to an answer to a puzzle. There could be many different POIs that are scattered all around the bubble or whatever makes sense with the same part of the large complex puzzle. So lets say there are 20 pieces to this puzzle and scattered around a large area there are say maybe 50 POIs that hold the same piece of the puzzle so scattered across a large area there are about a thousand Persistent but mostly generated pieces to the puzzle. An interesting complex puzzle could be broken into say 20 or 30 pieces.

I like one of the new things I heard about some recent discoveries, in that Professor Palin (some science figure not affiliated and bias toward any faction) was being sent discovered objects for analysis. Yes!! This is a great type of in game central hub for CMDRs to bring information and objects to be analysed. One should be monetarily rewarded and get to see pictures and a summary of how the puzzle is coming together.

Now this way the hardcore crowd could try to figure it out by themselves and more in game type players could visit the designated science hub person that is also working on the puzzle.

Now you presented a good question about how a complex dynamic scanner array would work in regards to exploring and finding things and interacting with objects.

This is a question most worth getting educated (to the scanner functionality) explorers together for to find a common ground that is not to easy and boring and not to complex and time consuming.

I will give what I think is most logical but I know opinions may vary widly on this.


As far as the scanner I would expect the ships computer would have to get a little smarter and more functional. A CMDR would also have to learn how to use the scanner as well. First I would break the entire spectrum into parts, from low to high. First we have audible range from say 20Hz to 10Khz, then radio from 10Khz to 100 or 200 Ghz, Then Infrared, then visible colors or light, then ultra violet then x rays then gamma rays. Now given that todays science does not know about everything like how gravity actually works. There is certainly the unknown ED energy possibilities as well that could be thrown in too.

Now the way I imagine it to work is a window about the size if a UI window that would sit above the right side UI panel and the controls for the scanner would be in that UI along with stats and functions ect. The controls of the scanner would keybindings for scrolling through the different bands and focusing on a particular signal being received. The ships computer should be able to tell you a very basic probability of what might generate a type of signal. Just a simple "most likely from natural source, or natural metallic, synthetic compost metal, unidentifiable, does not match any known anomaly, ect. Maybe 10 different types of signal groups that the computer can give very basic info on. Or a CMDR could experiment and learn it all on their own through investigation.

Once a signal is focused on the picture of your ship that shows incoming fire hitting your shield would illuminate to which direction a signal is coming from. Then you can track the signal to close to where it is coming from. If it is something floating in space you would go directly to it and scoop it or scan it (more on the active scanning later). If the source is on the surface of a planet you could get within 1 km per say (because a lot of surface objects would make objects besides an active transmitter difficult for the ship to pinpoint something) and get in the srv and look for it. Now this would I think require the ability to find a POI and kill it's signal when you are right next to a POI and pointed at it. If you are not able to wipe POI signals from your scanner I often end up coming back to the same thing and just complicates a search. It would also be good to give the srv an active scanner like the ship to interact with objects and to find them.

Now the active part of a scanner would be interacting with objects with different types of energy through the spectrum. A CMDR would have the passive window on display watching for emissions from an object while the active screen would be located above the passive window. This could be called the trying to communicate or interact with an object mode. There could be a sweep function to have the ships computer sweep though a energy band and the passive window is watched for responses of different types. Though different experiments there would be the possibility of an interaction to collect data trigger something, or all sorts of reactions. Which you could pass on to a scientist or whatever.

I would say it would be good design to have a basic function like tell the computer to sweep through all known energy bands and report any anomaly. That way a CMDR would not be wasting time trying to get a response when there is none to be had.

In regards as to successfully triggering the desired response it could be like marking a spot in the active window of a few places in different band windows and just transmit or it could be a more complex triggering transmission based on analyzing the initial response, And formulating a particular message. I can imagine an interesting mini game could be developed if desired. Or the computer could take over and translate things for you, and store the information to take to a scientist.
 
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I really like the idea the OP has linked to. To have a scientist as a crew member would be very realistic and simplify many tasks for the CMDR. As for the more complex tasks the on board scientist could collaborate with lets say Professor Palin, and bypass a need to go to Professor Palin as often.

I love the artwork the person on reddit has done, that is great. Hopefully some devs can be inspired by this stuff. Even a relatively simplified form of discovery from these ideas can lead to many different aspects or professions of the game.
 
Absolutely awesome idea CMDR, well done.

This sort of development would go a very long way in opening up the game more. Excellent.

CMIV
 
I really would like that FD could bring us some awesome stuff in game !

I would add so much details and depth into the game.

Have my rep OP !
 
I have seen several forum members ask "what could bring more depth to the game than the BGS?" In the last few days. In one word. :p THIS. The type of mechanics described right here in detail. [yesnod]
 
Okay, I've got to be honest, this is one of the best ideas for a new feature that I've seen in a very long time. I love all of it!
 
I stumbled upon a recent galnet article that is quite amusing and relates to this thread and those related.

https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/587ce4869657ba2a4971527c

"I share Professor Palin's view that these reports are of great significance. But attempts to communicate with these vessels have proved fruitless, as have efforts to discern their point of origin. We must learn more about these ships and whoever – or whatever – is piloting them."


LOL No FD don't go there please.

In what way did we try to communicate? [squeeeee]

Was it hand waving from our cockpits? :p Or a long range stellar body honk scan perhaps. [rolleyes]

Devs please, at least give us something that is at least slightly believable in the communication department. ;)
 
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