Its over for the time being.
Parliament hasn't actually been in session since the referendum, did you seriously think that additional powers can be devolved overnight?
General / Off-Topic Scottish Referendum Result. Post your thoughts here.
- Thread starter Andy Kappa
- Start date
Its over for the time being.
Parliament hasn't actually been in session since the referendum, did you seriously think that additional powers can be devolved overnight?
Parliament has been in session. It voted for the preparation for Cameron's retirement fund by killing a few thousand people in the ME.
Way to gracefully accept the will of your fellow countrymen.
Think you'll find the promises made have already been broken. On the night of the counting, a Labour type tried to discount those very promises in the studio.
But Cameron, and co have got what they wanted, a brief respite so they can concentrate on bombing the ME a bit more.
I expected them (no, strike that, I didn't expect anything different from them) to stick to their own timetable and not attempt to de prioritise it or attempt to wriggle out of it.
You might think it's over for the time being, but more than 1.6 million Scots think otherwise (and that number is growing not lessening). Good luck appeasing them & asking them to go back in their box whilst the government fracks under their homes & bombs foreign countries in their name.
Parliament was recalled solely to debate air strikes against ISIS, nothing else.
Given that Scotland's population voted 99%+ AGAINST fracking - and it's being pushed through regardless - rest assured that people are getting peeved off.
For me, fracking is one of a number of issues that were brought up by the yessers as areas where the will of the Scottish people is divergent from the rest of the UK. They are not though, they are UK issues.
Fracking is as disliked and unwanted by the general population in the rest of the UK as it is in Scotland.
The UK parties haven't gone back on their word yet. When they go and say you can't have it or it'll take until the parliament after next, that is the time to get up in arms about it. Knowing what I do about the drafting and passing of legislation, both W'minster and E'burgh my expectations are probably more realistic.
Fracking is as disliked and unwanted by the general population in the rest of the UK as it is in Scotland.
The UK parties haven't gone back on their word yet. When they go and say you can't have it or it'll take until the parliament after next, that is the time to get up in arms about it. Knowing what I do about the drafting and passing of legislation, both W'minster and E'burgh my expectations are probably more realistic.
'And war is always the choice - of the chosen who will not have to fight.'
-Ave Maria
Sorry I went of topic - just so angry about the decision to bomb ME. This news has overshadowed things going on in this country.
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Nationalism serves fewer than most believe, as demonstrated in history and is never a good path to tread. It always emerges when times get hard. People either never learn or remember; only those on the receiving end of it, never forget.
Parliament seem to believe bombing the ME was important enough to suspend their extended holiday.
The Scots take the position that an undertaking of immediate constitutional change is as if not more important.
Absolutely correct.
In the context of Scotland these terms were adopted before the 20th century. The connotations of which you speak are irrelevant to the issues.
The terms were appropriate for the American revolutionaries and the Irish. I would say rightly so.
N Korea calls itself democratic and the US seemed to believe they 'Liberated the Freedom Loving People of Kuwait.
You see what I mean?
Yes, I see what you mean. But to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that nationalists in Scotland would fight a military revolution to be free of the United Kingdom. Though in this case and if the YES vote won, it would have been a revolutionary step for them in many ways.
But when those who take part in a referendum refuse to accept or object to the outcome because it has failed to deliver what they required, all too often people only know how to administrate violence and prejudice in transmitting thier dissatisfactions despite having a voice and a vote. There is a broad spectrum involving nationalist activity that I was refering to really.
Now, even I understand that Westminster isn't solely responsible for their or our woes, but a combination of internal and external mechanisms are also. Many of which are beyond Westminster's control. Laying the blame at the feet of Westminster, which I've no doubt we all have an issue with here in Britain, is very easy to do. One of the biggest tools of the nationalist, is to create a common foe, somebody else to blame for your hardships. And I feel many in Scotland have fallen for the same old game of blame. Especially as they appeared to many others here in the UK, to be getting a better deal than most. I have to say that it was unthinkable to me, that any member state of our union would seek an independence vote in my lifetime, if ever. But look at how fast we have arrived at this point already with no clear resolution in sight and many unwilling to wait for further devolved powers.
However, I live in hope that those connotations of which I wrote remain irrelevant to the issues.
But when those who take part in a referendum refuse to accept or object to the outcome because it has failed to deliver what they required, all too often people only know how to administrate violence and prejudice in transmitting thier dissatisfactions despite having a voice and a vote. There is a broad spectrum involving nationalist activity that I was refering to really.
Now, even I understand that Westminster isn't solely responsible for their or our woes, but a combination of internal and external mechanisms are also. Many of which are beyond Westminster's control. Laying the blame at the feet of Westminster, which I've no doubt we all have an issue with here in Britain, is very easy to do. One of the biggest tools of the nationalist, is to create a common foe, somebody else to blame for your hardships. And I feel many in Scotland have fallen for the same old game of blame. Especially as they appeared to many others here in the UK, to be getting a better deal than most. I have to say that it was unthinkable to me, that any member state of our union would seek an independence vote in my lifetime, if ever. But look at how fast we have arrived at this point already with no clear resolution in sight and many unwilling to wait for further devolved powers.
However, I live in hope that those connotations of which I wrote remain irrelevant to the issues.
David Braben for President.
No. Just... No! I mean he's a nice bloke and all that, but...
@DBOBE Please don't excommunicate me for saying this. I mean you're a nice bloke and all that, but...
@ Pennyblack
I think you'll find that most are simply demanding that the promises and obligations made by the three Westminster Party leaders be fulfilled.
Before the counting had even finished the Labour Party, for example, was attempting to suggest that those promises could be discounted. The actual references was that people would have voted no regardless. That is not borne out by the figures or the results of course, but demonstrates how desperate the Labour Party naturally is!
The Tory party in England has voiced repeated objections. They justly claim that England should also get power over its own affairs, but sadly for them the party leaders didn't commit themselves to that at all. More, the promises to Scotland must be fulfilled before any settlement with England. It isn't difficult to see the English are miffed.
Its a terrible mish mash really. It seems likely we will end up with an autonomous Scots Parliament. Almost certainly an English Parliament with the same degree and extent of powers. A Welsh Parliament with a lot more than they have at the present time, demanding more and a N Ireland Parliament, (just to make things interesting).
Within all that, the UK will attempt to continue for the sole purpose of managing a military.
It's a total mess. And one which could have been avoided if Cameron and Miliband hadn't been so obstinate right up until the last minute, blocking every compromise and refusing to even go up there to talk, until they were order to by the queen!
A PM, the leader of the country, refused to go up to a part that was threatening to leave! Can you imagine such a thing anywhere else? The arrogance is astonishing!
It's not surprising that the Westminster leaders are looking for a way out. What the Scots are demanding is that any way out won't include any loss by them.
And can you seriously blame them?
I think you'll find that most are simply demanding that the promises and obligations made by the three Westminster Party leaders be fulfilled.
Before the counting had even finished the Labour Party, for example, was attempting to suggest that those promises could be discounted. The actual references was that people would have voted no regardless. That is not borne out by the figures or the results of course, but demonstrates how desperate the Labour Party naturally is!
The Tory party in England has voiced repeated objections. They justly claim that England should also get power over its own affairs, but sadly for them the party leaders didn't commit themselves to that at all. More, the promises to Scotland must be fulfilled before any settlement with England. It isn't difficult to see the English are miffed.
Its a terrible mish mash really. It seems likely we will end up with an autonomous Scots Parliament. Almost certainly an English Parliament with the same degree and extent of powers. A Welsh Parliament with a lot more than they have at the present time, demanding more and a N Ireland Parliament, (just to make things interesting).
Within all that, the UK will attempt to continue for the sole purpose of managing a military.
It's a total mess. And one which could have been avoided if Cameron and Miliband hadn't been so obstinate right up until the last minute, blocking every compromise and refusing to even go up there to talk, until they were order to by the queen!
A PM, the leader of the country, refused to go up to a part that was threatening to leave! Can you imagine such a thing anywhere else? The arrogance is astonishing!
It's not surprising that the Westminster leaders are looking for a way out. What the Scots are demanding is that any way out won't include any loss by them.
And can you seriously blame them?
No. Just... No! I mean he's a nice bloke and all that, but...
@DBOBE Please don't excommunicate me for saying this. I mean you're a nice bloke and all that, but...
The tongue in cheek smiley was placed deliberately.
Just to pick up on this point here (I agree with the rest of your post), I think the reason Cameron didn't get involved until lastminute.com is that he knew his presence would do more harm to the No campaign than good. In fact, he was very likely advised by the Scottish parties not to put in an appearance or even say much about it.
It is fair to say that an Etonian Tory is about as welcome in Scotland as rabies.
That was certainly his explanation, but given the consequences, he was either incredible naive and arrogant, or simply very badly advised.
They left the entire no campaign in the hands of a failed PM who is generally known, (both rudely and unfairly) as the one eyed Scottish idiot and his chancellor who over saw the UK plunging into what is claimed to be the worst recession since 1928.
Cameron and Miliband both refused to compromise. Cameron was offered so called Devo-max, which he could have negotiated to be attractive, yet maintain stability. He refused point blank.
Instead both he and Miliband simply stayed in London, poking fun at the whole thing, until the last minute almost when the queen ordered them to go.
Its all so incredible, I doubt the historians will believe it.
The UK principals have literally backed themselves into a corner. They can't ignore the Scots, they certainly can't ignore their own partys, and there is so little they can do because they've already promised the Americans they will attend the next ME blood bath.
Anyway, for those who asked, this is why the Scots are keeping the pressure up. Because they know the UK will almost certainly hope they can put this off, entertaining people to a few patriotic victories,perhaps with a few heros giving their lives, ect..
Cameron must be thinking, never were the second verses of God Save the Queen more appropriate than now.
The tongue in cheek smiley was placed deliberately.
To be fair, if DB *was* president, we'd then only have to run a few errands and we'd all be millionaires driving fully kitted out rolls royces. Would work better in real life than in Elite!
As someone who supported the Yes campaign from afar, it would have been great to have DC up there banging on (and on, and on) about how we're all in it together, and he's one of them anyway because his father's mother's sister had an uncle who was Scottish. It would have done the Yes campaign a power of good, and we would have won by a landslide.
But he was well advised to stay away. The only reason the three stooges went charging up the M6 was because a single YouGov poll put Yes ahead by 51 to 49, and they panicked.
I don't believe the Queen had anything to do with it. Freddie died 23 years ago anyway.