I don't dogfight all that much, just started doing bounty hunting. From a trader's perspective, my ship is my life. It's everything I have. Are PVP'ers wanting the 30 second kill, COD-style respawn type of game? I don't get why making the fight last longer, no matter how long it may be .. is a bad thing. If you sacrifice whatever was in that space for more banks, that's your right to do so.
Scrap or redesign shield cell modules, they are too overpowered and trivialize PvP.
- Thread starter KazumaKat
- Start date
The facts "there are ways to compensate for your opponent having Shield Cells" and "Shield Cells are ridiclously overpowered" are two facts that don't overlap. "You can get round shield cells" is a red herring retort that does not actually change that shield cells are completely broken as a mechanic right now.
Except they are not.
If if truly was the case that Cells are OP as balls, then there would be no way to get around them. That by its self is an indication of balance.
On that note, I have taken down player shields on Aps even before they have a chance to cell with nothing but pulse alone. Far from an I win button, or Overpowered. The Ai just cant aim to save its own life, giving people the wrong impression.
Remember, time spent in a engagement does not equate to a loss of skill.
This is just another "I'm scared of players in large ships" thread. Let this poor horse die.
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First two statements are not necessarily true. If these are facts then they must overlap by definition or they wouldn't be facts.
Shield cells are not the magic "IWIN" button that people make them out to be but they are overpowered. There are ways to work around people having shieldcells but that does mean that all ships will eventually be fitted with as many beam lasers as people can find and nothing else.
As I asked before, if two Asps fight, and one has a single shield cell unit, and the other two or even more... which will win? I'd put my money on the latter as any time the shields are in danger of failing, a shield cell will be deployed to prevent it. And given the second ship can do this a dozen times or more, it can literaly just out tank the former Asp.
And how would human CMDRs feel if most of the NPCs they met started having numerous shield cell units? At the moment they're not even allowed one seemingly!
Is this the kind of mechanics we want in the game? Don't we want something a little more skilful that's less of a trump card? eg - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=86856&p=1553543&viewfull=1#post1553543
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1. Not a problem, the second Asp has simply tactically chosen a trade-off the first Asp hasn't.
2. that would actually be great. Bring on the shield cell npc's.
If two Asps are fighting, then both went full stupid taking a 7 million credit vessel that is only slightly better then a Viper to battle.
That is a case of the firepower brought to the table is outclassed by the defenses provided, not the defense being OP.
Try again with Asps with 6 rails, for example.
As many have already agreed to, the shield cell with in its current design is too powerful and makes a huge difference in combat, especially for Player verses Player encounters.
Two equally skilled players with the same ship configuration, with the exception of one having shield cell available for use and the other doesn’t or is depleted, will heavily dictate the outcome of the fight, with the best chance for the pilot with the Shield Cell.
Currently the Shield Cell feels much like a skill less I win button.
I didn’t read every single reply so possible this might have been suggested already.
I would suggest that Shield Cells will be changed to the following mechanic, making it more challenging to use along with some draw backs as well as risk for using it.
When the Shield Cell gets installed for the first time, the Shield Cell isn’t charged yet and will need time to charged, before it can be used.
Charging a Shield Cell puts a high drain on your available systems power and depending on how much you have available and how much PIP`s you have set to systems power (Power Distribution), as well as what grade of Power Cell you are using, it might take a little while before it’s fully charged and ready for use, it’s possible you completely drain you stored systems power during the charging process.
Using the Shield Cell will not be a simply a button press, but press, hold and release mechanic instead.
Energy will be rapidly transferred into the Shield Generator, but during the energy transfer a huge amount of heat is being generated, causing your ships heat levels to rapidly climb over 150% and the Shield Cell will be running red hot during this transfer.
Your ship will likely suffer some heat damage, but there will also be the risk of the Shield Cell Exploding because of this heat.
The Press , Hold and Release Mechanic to operate the Shield Cell will force you to time for how long and when to “Eject” the Shield Cell, as well as how much energy actually got transferred from the Shield Cell to the Shield Generator will be based on how long you dared holding the Energy Transfer.
A Shield Cell that goes Critical, still gets automatically Ejected, but Explodes at close proximity of the ship, causing damage to shields and possibly even hull damage if it breaks through the shields. Higher Class / Grade Shield Cell = A Bigger and more Lethal Explosion.
A shield Cell that is ejected (on time) will be similar to a heat sink an object/cargo canister in space
Quick Overview for the above Shield Cell Changes,
-Draws (a lot of) Energy from Systems power when charging a Shield Cell (Power Management required <= Skill)
-Need to be pre-charged before it can be used
-Cooldown / Reuse time: Based on available systems power, Shield Cell Class & Grade / Power Distributor Class / Grade
-Using a Shield Cell will generates a lot of heat (Risk of ship heat damage)
-Risk of a Shield Cell going critical (over heating) and exploding
+Shield will be rapidly recharged
+Press, Hold Release Mechanic (Risk versus Reward as well as some Skill)
Two equally skilled players with the same ship configuration, with the exception of one having shield cell available for use and the other doesn’t or is depleted, will heavily dictate the outcome of the fight, with the best chance for the pilot with the Shield Cell.
Currently the Shield Cell feels much like a skill less I win button.
I didn’t read every single reply so possible this might have been suggested already.
I would suggest that Shield Cells will be changed to the following mechanic, making it more challenging to use along with some draw backs as well as risk for using it.
When the Shield Cell gets installed for the first time, the Shield Cell isn’t charged yet and will need time to charged, before it can be used.
Charging a Shield Cell puts a high drain on your available systems power and depending on how much you have available and how much PIP`s you have set to systems power (Power Distribution), as well as what grade of Power Cell you are using, it might take a little while before it’s fully charged and ready for use, it’s possible you completely drain you stored systems power during the charging process.
Using the Shield Cell will not be a simply a button press, but press, hold and release mechanic instead.
Energy will be rapidly transferred into the Shield Generator, but during the energy transfer a huge amount of heat is being generated, causing your ships heat levels to rapidly climb over 150% and the Shield Cell will be running red hot during this transfer.
Your ship will likely suffer some heat damage, but there will also be the risk of the Shield Cell Exploding because of this heat.
The Press , Hold and Release Mechanic to operate the Shield Cell will force you to time for how long and when to “Eject” the Shield Cell, as well as how much energy actually got transferred from the Shield Cell to the Shield Generator will be based on how long you dared holding the Energy Transfer.
A Shield Cell that goes Critical, still gets automatically Ejected, but Explodes at close proximity of the ship, causing damage to shields and possibly even hull damage if it breaks through the shields. Higher Class / Grade Shield Cell = A Bigger and more Lethal Explosion.
A shield Cell that is ejected (on time) will be similar to a heat sink an object/cargo canister in space
Quick Overview for the above Shield Cell Changes,
-Draws (a lot of) Energy from Systems power when charging a Shield Cell (Power Management required <= Skill)
-Need to be pre-charged before it can be used
-Cooldown / Reuse time: Based on available systems power, Shield Cell Class & Grade / Power Distributor Class / Grade
-Using a Shield Cell will generates a lot of heat (Risk of ship heat damage)
-Risk of a Shield Cell going critical (over heating) and exploding
+Shield will be rapidly recharged
+Press, Hold Release Mechanic (Risk versus Reward as well as some Skill)
So what? This isn't a PvP game, it's a game where credits can compensate for skill (and skill can compensate for credits) and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
It's not a game where one sub-set of players get to define what is 'fair'.
You want someone's cargo or scalp - be a good enough combat pilot to claim it.
I would have less of a problem with them if they were indeed limited to a one shot use, or at least have a really long cool down period (which could be shorter the better the quality). As for what I meant by skill I think it should be quite clear that in the example provided there is no skill what-so-ever required from the player in sitting still firing at an Anaconda with your finger on the spam shield cell button.
Elite is not about 1v1 duels, if you want fair duels contact a commander and ensure you both have the same loadout, the same external hardware running the game to ensure none has a advantage.
Shield cells are not OP, they provide a player with a window of time that allows them to assess a situation and decide on a course of action.
Plenty of threads on this subject, and with wings coming there's going to be changes to the combat environment.
Let me get this right - You're suggesting the first Asp with a cargo bay (instead of a Shield Cell bank) may have made a better "tactical" trade off? Are you suggesting he ejects fish at the other Asp as part of some tactical master plan?
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Ummm... Not sure what your point is , but I'll play along... An Asp has nigh on 50% more power shields, nigh on 50% more weapons, and internal compartments to sport 3-4 shield cell units without any concerns... The Asp could literally just sit there for over a minute with a Viper shooting all it could before even getting the shields down
[ps: I tried exactly this with a friend earlier this week with me committing 4 pips to twin beam lasers without him even having a top shield unit ]But if you want to try the same comparison with a pair of similar Vipers, one with a single shield cell unit, and another with two, I'd put my money on the second for the same reason as discussed before. Shield Cells are too much of a trump card.
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I notice you conveniently edited out the second part of my question... Are you saying that you seriously have no problem with someone sitting still in a Viper killing an Anaconda? As for the rest of your statement; I will let others judge the value of it.
Ummm... Not sure what your point is , but I'll play along... An Asp has nigh on 50% more power shields, nigh on 50% more weapons, and internal compartments to sport 3-4 shield cell units without any concerns... The Asp could literally just sit there for over a minute with a Viper shooting all it could before even getting the shields down
But if you want to try the same comparison with a pair of similar Vipers, one with a single shield cell unit, and another with two, I'd put my money on the second for the same reason as discussed before. Shield Cells are too much of a trump card.
50% more shields?
Yeah no
Try 50 points depending on what graph you use.
50% more firepower?
Yeah no, Class 1s are crap when compared to 2s.
Beams are largely crap at range anyways. Class 1s may as well fire .
The Asp is a bad ship overall for combat, its a large, expensive target. But hey! At least you can be subpar then the viper with 40 tons of cargo for the upgrade price of 7 million! Oh wait no its around 20 million in total to make it strong enough compared to the Vipers A shields to not be a total joke.
But please tell me again how OP Cells are when you are dead to some fool in a Eagle with Missiles in under 2 seconds flat, and when you totally lose your shields to anyone with a Class 3 hardpoint, or Rails, or even when someone in a Cobra can ram you, costing you 1 million+ when only having to pay 50k themselves.
Please fly bigger ships before claiming that something is OP.
Hell address something that truly is OP before the nature of cells is brought into question.
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This would be my answer.
Honestly, an Asp with cells vs an Asp without ... what are we going to do next, make sure that Vipers with weapons can't battle Type 6's without weapons?
I mean, what about a Python fully decked taking on a Sidewinder fully decked? I don't get this argument. This game isn't a dueling game, it's not designed around 'evenly matched PVP' but here we are trying to change basic functions of a mainly PVE game to make sure CMDR DuelDAEMON can fight CMDR DuelMcDuelz on an equal footing when all one has to do is earn more credits to have a better ship. What if his Thrusters are A and the other's is E? What if the shields on the Asp are one class lower than the other Asp?
You see where I'm going with this? If you want to PVP, you kit for it. I have two in my Asp 'just in case'. I sacrifice cargo space and any other module that would fit there that may come in useful.
Same sacrifice for a Trader, it's the shield vs cargo space.
From what I read it's people angry that fights last longer than 30 seconds. Are we going to stop people from buying better weapons than their opponents? This game isn't about 'balancing around dueling'. I'm only in this thread in case the developers read it to show that my absolute worst fear for this game is for it to become "balanced around 1v1" fights which is exactly what nerfing one aspect of the game would be when there are 100 other ways to 'imbalance' 1v1 as it is.
NPC Anaconda? Sure. Why not. What does it affect me? If they want to stack up their entire inventory with "health potions" why should I stop them? Maybe increase the NPC difficulty and AI instead of taking away a valid tactic that can be used.
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I'm not suggesting anything. People can choose what they want and live with the consequences of their choices. When I fly in an ASP equipped as a trader I have dual chaff, dual cells and a weapons load-out to give me time to bug out. I also fly so that it's very hard to get interdicted. Once interdicted I don't care what the other guy is loaded with. If they have 4 sets of cells or none that is their choice not mine. They play their hand and I play mine and let the cards fall where they may.
Why are you intent on doing off topic?
Anyhoo! An Asp can bring a shield that's about 30% more powerful to the battlefield. And if people use the C1 spots for lasers and C2 for cannons/autocannons, then the Asp has twice as many.
Maybe we can stick to the topic rather than "frills"?[/QUOTE]
Khaaaaaan. Sorry couldn't resist. Seriously though I have not flown bigger ships yet either and that is why I said perhaps they should be limited to the larger and slower traders and such to allow for increased survivability. We just can't continue with the complete removal of skill that they provide for currently.
Simple. Active module that when online restores power to shields at the cost of Systems capacitor. Boom, problem solved. Now you must make tactical decisions on what to power, instead of 3/3 eng/wep or even 4/2 while potion spamming.
There should also be a hull variant.
I know, it's like, imagination, or something.
There should also be a hull variant.
I know, it's like, imagination, or something.