See, THAT's why I don't play Open.

[ToniB]

Or FDEV get the Crime & Punishment system this game badly needs, to the point where FDEV's original goals for the game are met.

crime and punishment balancing will NOT eliminate pvp or murder. What does you make think so?

as said: pvp isnt happening much anyway, so those who want to do it, will probably even do it more likely when it has harder consequences. its part of the fun!

 

[ToniB]

...answer should be to simply:-
1) Promote the gameplay ED surely wants to promote? A solid trader, bounter hunter, pirate system. Trolls murdering people for a laugh break this entire model. So punish mindless (troll) murder, reward "good" piracy.
2) Allow PvP more easily if people wish to partake. eg: See my sig suggestions about "Gladitorial Arenas" (or even "Time Trial Races"). As daft as they may sound

again: how does the game differ between a murder and a righteous "pirate" kill?

forum whining will not stop either way i think anyway ^^

 

[PhazonAran]

...answer should be to simply:-
1) Promote the gameplay ED surely wants to promote? A solid trader, bounter hunter, pirate system. Trolls murdering people for a laugh break this entire model. So punish mindless (troll) murder, reward "good" piracy.
2) Allow PvP more easily if people wish to partake. eg: See my sig suggestions about "Gladitorial Arenas" (or even "Time Trial Races"). As daft as they may sound

Did you not see the rampant rage when we were all speculating about PvP arenas for 1.3 ?

crime and punishment balancing will NOT eliminate pvp or murder. What does you make think so?

as said: pvp isnt happening much anyway, so those who want to do it, will probably even do it more likely when it has harder consequences. its part of the fun!

And I'm glad it won't eliminate it, it's not the objective ! The objective is to introduce consequences for your actions. If you're ready to live with it, no problem !

Well, if half of you would posse up and chase down these nogoodniks, it probably would be! XD

I tried for a bit. That's probably when I realised how much of a problem combat logging was.

 

[Ancipital]

...answer should be to simply:-
1) Promote the gameplay ED surely wants to promote? A solid trader, bounter hunter, pirate system. Trolls murdering people for a laugh break this entire model. So punish mindless (troll) murder, reward "good" piracy.
2) Allow PvP more easily if people wish to partake. eg: See my sig suggestions about "Gladitorial Arenas" (or even "Time Trial Races"). As daft as they may sound

The sad thing is that until infrastructure, law enforcement and civilisation are in place, there's not even any real achievement in being bad. It's laughably easy, there are zero consequences, so any flipper-handed son of a lumpfish can take potshots at people and get away with it. That denudes it of all flavour and sense of achievement, for all but the most easily-pleased casual griefers. The bar is extremely low- almost subterranean.

Obviously, if there are no consequences for behaving like earwax, many people won't behave well. It's just how society works. DBOBE said that he wanted these systems in place, to produce a living, vibrant self-regulating galaxy- one where the safe areas are safer, and the anarchies more dangerous.. rather than the current uniformly beige creche. We* must hope that the lack of them is just temporary. ED is currently a very unfinished shell of what could be a great game some day.


* For some values of "we", which exclude talentless tween griefers who'd probably ragequit if it actually became challenging.

 

[Mikey2305]

we are all very nice and polite in mobius

 

[PhazonAran]

I'm almost confident that the first post to the very first forum ever created was "this forum sucks". XD

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Then try harder and kill faster. Dig deeper. Don't be content with just chasing 'em off.

Project STRENGTH. Wait there. They'll be back. Then hunt them down like the Pug of War you are!

As soon as we get the Federal Corvette, y'all mothertruckers are dead.​

 

[NeilF]

again: how does the game differ between a murder and a righteous "pirate" kill?

forum whining will not stop either way i think anyway ^^

Can we first consider the number of times we've heard traders complaining of simply being "murdered," rather than the slightest attempt at piracy? Do you agree this is happening? I'm certain countless players have gone SOLO or into GROUP play for trading simply as they do not want to risk mindless troll murdering and them losing lots of effort simply for a troll to get their kicks.

The moment we agree (some) traders are leaving ONLINE due to this, we're admitting the desired game mechanic is starting to crumble! Because surely we want as many players as possible ONLINE trading, bounty hunting and pirating?


As for a "righteous pirate kill", there need not be such a thing ideally. The victim should have the choice of handing over a "payment" or having their ship damaged/cargo forcibly removed. But it's a fair (tricky) point!

So as I said before:-

The thing is, it's part of the broken model of ED surely?

Ideally we want traders, pirates and bounty hunters all ONLINE, all going about their "business".

But with "murderers" simply allowed to troll other players with no real penalty, the game just breaks down. ie: What trader wants to risk X million of goods in their belly when they can get destroyed by a player just basically "trolling". They'll just play SOLO instead.


We need proper harsher penalties for murder and we need piracy tightened up/improved. eg: If a rating/score was built up of how many times you interdicted someone, and how many times you murdered them (ie: you destroyed a non-wanted), and then this rating is simply shown when you interdict someone, the CMDR being interdicted might behave very differently to a 78/2 interdictor, than a 11/10 interdictor!

Furthermore, if a hotkey was made available to eject a ton of your most valuable cargo (not rares unless you only have rares) it would make "payment" to pirates easier too!

And if we're worried about traders not being encouraged into ONLINE play, why not reward them? We reward players simply for playing with their friends with a 5% bonus. So why not give a bonus for players playing (with strangers) ONLINE?

 

[Snakebite]

SC'ing back to the station from a RES, and a CMDR interdicts my Viper in his Vulture and just kills me for no reason. Didn't want anything, I hailed him, no reply, stowed my weapons, no reply, was drifting helplessly, no reply. I'm not that bothered, it was only 144k rebuy but it's 144k this guy took off me with no profit for himself or anything. In an hour of open play I've met 4 CMDRs, 2 killed me, 1 talked to me, 1 sparred with me. I know, it's only an hour but still..why bother?

O poor you, you bought a multiplayer game called 'Elite Dangerous' a space sim set in a dangerous universe. Then you go to a dangerous place within this dangerous galaxy and blow up a few space ships, but then on your way home you got killed yourself by another space ship flown by a hostile and probably psychopathic pilot who blows stuff up for fun, ooh that is just so inconsiderate of him, its so not fair.....

Did you know that FD also make games like 'rolercoaster tycoon' where this sort of thing doesn't happen ? my ten year old stepdaughter claims its quite fun. You may like to try it.

 

[SteveLaw]

That's rep right there. XD

Something we can all agree on.

 

[Armour]

In order by sentence:

* This isn't a 100% scenario. For example, I have yet to even be interdicted by a human player, let alone attacked by one. I firmly believe that, if we had access to quantifiable statistics on every player-to-player interaction in-game here, the vast majority would be positive experiences.

I agree that not all players are motiveless killers. I didn't say they were. I was making the point that, in the cases where they are, they shouldn't get away with it 100% of the time or escape with a feeble punishment (that actually probably isn't much of a punishment since they can get blown up by a like-minded friend and gift the bounty to them, go and farm some NPCs in solo hack mode to build up their credit balance once more, and go out and do it all over again).

* As we all do, but reality is what it is. Until the police show up, the victim WILL need to defend themselves. And that doesn't always mean fighting fire with fire. I've had great success fighting fire with marshmallows.

Nobody has said that people shouldn't have to make any attempt to defend themselves, have they? But new players in starting zones are usually unable to do that effectively. If picking on weaker foes is how someone gets their kicks, then they can't complain when they get curb-stomped by some security ships with EMP weaponry, shields that won't quit and a mean attitude that says "we haven't had any dinner". And if they then get carted off to prison for a few hours to think about what they've done, even better IMO.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I would like to see FD expand on the current reputation system.

Have a seperate pirate faction equivalent to the pilots federation.

The pilots federation does not take kindly to killing its (clean) members outside of warzones so if you KILL more than say 2 clean CMDRs in *both* a (can be tweaked) 24hrs game time / say 2 weeks real time you get kicked from the pilots federation.

This then has a cool down period of say another 24hrs gametime/ 2 weeks realtime at which point you can take on a mission and on successfully completing it you are back "in" again.... but if you instigate a fight and kill another clean pilots federation member the count resets.

I would suggest you do not lose your pilots federation stats on being kicked, but when not a member they no longer increase.

if you are scanned in any space station at this point you will be hostile and denied docking and you do not have insurance so you have to pay fully for a new ship.

BUT


also there is a Pirates faction which you can join. you can be a member of this and get new ships on ship destruction here. generally they are lower spec and not necessarily the same ship you lost, but there is no cost, it is just given to you and is based on your rep and what happens to have been stolen recently.

pirates equally do not like blatant murder but they are more lenient than the pilots federation - say 6 kills in 24hrs / 2 weeks game time (pilots federation or pirate faction members only, no one cares about low life AI's ) due to the increased risk of accidental ship destruction before getting kicked.

obviously you get warned as you are getting close to being kicked so you can adjust play style.

the trick here is, you CAN actually be a member of both, and if you are will mean certain unique missions as a double agent for one side or the other.

psychos who kill indiscriminately will be ousted from both and therefore live a hard life on the edge of space, where they have to sneak every where they go and have no insurance.
The only way this can be wiped is to not kill any player for a set amount of time before again getting a mission to rejoin either the pilots federation or the pirate faction.

this makes it not really a viable career mode, BUT it IS possible, which is kind of exactly the sort of thing David Braben said it would be.. Player killers claim they want hairs on neck excitement where they risk it all..... well this would give it.

So a player can carry on playing if they are banned from both, they could still fight in warzones, but with the added risk if any human player scans them and they show up as serial killer and risk being attacked.

 

[Armour]

Personal security is and will forever remain a personal responsibility.

That is always true, but high security systems should feel different from low security ones. It should be a lot more difficult to be a psycho in high security areas for any length of time. Right now, that's not how it seems to work, which makes the whole "simulation" aspect of the game seem like marketing .

 

[Leper Messiah]

So much stupidity in thread...must resist quoting them....no more banhammer for me, so I'll quote the good (mostly)

THIS is why I don't do open. People like this populate it, and life is too short to be associating with such intolerance.

true...I even dislike being on the same planet as some of these types

I CARE Don't play in OPEN , its broken , with broken ideals that risk is what open is about, instead its about other people sheer enjoyment of just blowing you up , for no money value, this is why some players hate these post , people don't wont to hear the horror of life in open Instead they want you to stay in open and and keep getting blown up.........for their enjoyment of course .

spot on

I disagree. ED is not a game like Unreal Tournament or Battlefield. Those games are about PvP combat exclusively and every player agrees to that. In ED the player population and their play style is much more varied and as a consequence the same social rules and conventions as in real life have to be applied to prevent the in-game society from descending into anarchy. I suspect (hope) that the overhaul of the in-game crime and punishment system that comes with the Powerplay update will make this clear. Frontier Development are on a learning curve in this respect because, as far as I know, this is the first time they are managing an online gaming community. So I expect some more debate and changes before it settles.
.
PS1: Deathmatch PvP in ED is OK but only in Conflict Zones.
PS2: Anarchy in ED is OK but only in err... Anarchy Systems

agreed

But it is very onesided, only for people like the Opener is it real dangerous. For Killing on Sight Player there is nothing dangerous because of no consequences and no real opponents under the peacfull ally of trader or explorer. People like you only want to pummel little kids (wearing glasses) on the school backyard with heavy clubs and then laughing at them if they "whining". That is your fun you can win from such games.

Quoted for truth

Why did they put guns on ships?

Why do they let you remove guns?? EH?!!

If you had one, I'd pay your fuel bill, just so you could go far away.

LOL

Tell that to the people whose ability to play the game, which they paid for, is being affected by such behaviour.

truth again

The challenge of human players is what makes this game what it is.

The issue here is that all too often the murderous scuzz buckets are not looking for a "Challenge" are they?

Believe it or not some people do care. Picking on smaller prey for no reason is the act of a coward and ruin the game for others.

truth

I notice this pattern all the time from the forum members who are advocates of player killing, and who say that "open automatically equals PvP".

Look, guys...

The name of this game is indeed "Elite: Dangerous".

BUT

The name of the game comes purely from one of the Elite ranks.

Let me say that again:

The name of this game comes purely from one of the Elite ranks.

The name of this game was not intended to be used as an excuse for meaningless player killing.

The name of this game was not intended to be used as an excuse for warping the meaning of Open play to say that Open Play only means "PvP Mode".

Which part of the above three sentences do you not understand?

Which part of David Braben explaining the origin of this game's name in this video do you not understand?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOYhoFYIWmw&feature=youtu.be&t=7m57s


With thanks to Jack Schitt (link to his post in this thread provided below) , who has tried to point this out, but whose point was never responded to.

once again so true

If you mean I failed to read any kind of meaningful reply from you, then yes, I failed hard in that respect.

- - - Updated - - -



It wasn't called "Elite: Player Killer Frenzy" either.

They picked "Elite: Dangerous" because it looks cool, and for the reasons outlined by David Braben in the video, which you are desperately trying to ignore.

indeed It's not called Elite: Murderous Scumbag either

No, the weirdest part will be the forum members who call others names because they don't understand WHY someone doesn't like getting blown up for grins and giggles and,,,,,, then,,,,

Will be the first ones screaming at the top of their lungs in these very same forums if Frontier decides to implement a security system/police force that makes it hard for them to "kill just because I can" and not get away with it so easily.

I can hear it now: Wah!!!! I can't pick on weaker players! Why is it SO darn hard to ruin someone else's fun? I was having a blast (deliberate pun) doing that. I don't like consequences when they apply to me!!!

WAAAAAAH!!!!!!

I'm SO praying to every deity (including sci fi ones) that FD implements MUCH stronger security and all those moaning at the "whining" here will be whining themselves, it'll probably be the first sound that Alien life hears!

 

[Jigster]

I know, it's only an hour but still..why bother?

I felt similar when I was double crossed by a pirate. The scurvy dog. 1M CR rebuy.

I sulked in MOBIUS for an hour or two but was back in Open once I'd made the CR back and had a quick moan about it here.

 

[NeilF]

I would like to see FD expand on the current reputation system.

Have a seperate pirate faction equivalent to the pilots federation.

The pilots federation does not take kindly to killing its (clean) members outside of warzones so if you KILL more than say 2 clean CMDRs in *both* a (can be tweaked) 24hrs game time / say 2 weeks real time you get kicked from the pilots federation.

This then has a cool down period of say another 24hrs gametime/ 2 weeks realtime at which point you can take on a mission and on successfully completing it you are back "in" again.... but if you instigate a fight and kill another clean pilots federation member the count resets.

I would suggest you do not lose your pilots federation stats on being kicked, but when not a member they no longer increase.

if you are scanned in any space station at this point you will be hostile and denighed docking and you do not have insurance so you have to pay fully for a new ship.

BUT


also there is a Pirates faction which you can join. you can be a member of this and get new ships on ship destruction here. generally they are lower spec and not necessarily the same ship you lost, but there is no cost, it is just given to you and is based on your rep and what happens to have been stolen recently.

pirates equally do not like blatant murder but they are more lenient than the pilots federation - say 6 kills in 24hrs / 2 weeks game time due to the increased risk of accidental ship destruction before getting kicked.

obviously you get warned as you are getting close to being kicked so you can adjust play style.

the trick here is, you CAN actually be a member of both, and if you are will mean certain unique missions as a double agent for one side or the other.

psychos who kill indiscriminately will be ousted from both and therefore live a hard life on the edge of space, where they have to sneak every where they go and have no insurance.
The only way this can be wiped is to not kill any player for a set amount of time before again getting a mission to rejoin either the pilots federation or the pirate faction.

this makes it not really a viable career mode, BUT it IS possible, which is kind of exactly the sort of thing David Braben said it would be.. Player killers claim they want hairs on neck excitement where they risk it all..... well this would give it.

Anything that tightens the game mechanics and promotes more interesting play, while making things less appealing to trolls surely is a good thing

Being interdicted by a real human and having real contact, rather than dealing with a mindless NPC is great. But it's damaged by the trolling and also the difficulty in it.

ie: The pirate getting his terms over, and indeed even the victim ejecting cargo easily in the heat of the moment...

 

[CMDR NightsLong]

So blow someone up because you can makes you a troll?

LOLOL. FD will not be able to please everybody, which is why we have various game modes. Saves should be locked to a mode possibly.

 

[Jaeger]

If you'd rather play solo than risk 144k, then play solo. If you like the online element with bigger risk, then play online. Just don't come here to tell us why you made the decision, no one really cares.

I do. Highlighting the obvious flaws is important if you ever want the game to develop in a positive manner. Negative attitudes on the other hand ...

 

[Leper Messiah]

Prayer is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

Be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Saddle up and provide the security yourself!

Sadly my combat skills are that of a syphilitic baboon. Hence if I blundered into open someone looking for a "challenge" would kill me easier then the Ai.

 

[Jaeger]

String of bad luck? The vast majority of commanders I've met in open polite and civil.

The problem/tragedy is the game enables this behaviour. Indiscriminate player killing is a symptom of the game mechanics. Morally the commander is at fault yes, but actually look to the authors. This is what they intended that "shafting" another player is not only possible, but allowed and even tacitly encouraged.

 

[CMDR NightsLong]

The problem/tragedy is the game enables this behaviour. Indiscriminate player killing is a symptom of the game mechanics. Morally the commander is at fault yes, but actually look to the authors. This is what they intended that "shafting" another player is not only possible, but allowed and even tacitly encouraged.

I like it, I believe it works very well. I enjoy the mechanics and the tension when I'm completing trade runs.

why is the commander "morally" at fault? this makes not much sense to me.