Banning is a strong word. A short timeout seems fair enough. Millions of people play games all the time where they have to wait for various timers to count down before they can continue. Anyway, I also said that restricting them to Solo mode for that timeout might be sufficient. They'd still get to play, no?
See, THAT's why I don't play Open.
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Banning is a strong word. A short timeout seems fair enough. Millions of people play games all the time where they have to wait for various timers to count down before they can continue. Anyway, I also said that restricting them to Solo mode for that timeout might be sufficient. They'd still get to play, no?
Majinvash
Banned
Thats a shame, more players the better.
I wasn't suggesting that idea I was using as a hypothetical example to discuss the argument of playing within with mechanics as opposed to playing within the setting, but I'm glad we agree that there needs to be consequences. I think the punishment needs to be harsh though, perhaps not as harsh as my example but harsh enough so that psychopathic, motiveless murders are as rare in the game as they are in real life. Yes, it's possible to just kill anyone for no reason, but the problem is that it would not happen with no reason apart from some very rare cases.
This is different to being a pirate, this is killing for no personal gain except the enjoyment of actually killing some (within the game setting). Part of the problem is that some players struggle to see the difference. I'm not saying the player who kills other players is a psychopath, but their CMDR character, inside the game, should be seen to be one. People do not generally kill for enjoyment, they kill for money, for passion, for revenge, for power; the player CMDR should, at least, have a motivation other than "it's PvP", or "the game mechanics allow us to do it" because those are the player's motivations, not the CMDRs. However, like I say, some players really seem to struggle with the difference.
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Banning is a strong word, and it's exactly what you are asking for. Respawn timers and the like are not analogous to banning a player who has not died, not cheated and not broken the rules. Restricting somebody to solo is again way too harsh when that player has done nothing outside the rules and framework of the mode in which they are playing. Please be clear, I'm not talking about the kind of players who were (for example) exploiting game mechanics to gank people inside stations and the like. The mechanics used to punish criminality must be a logical and coherent part of the game mode and world.
he is not required nor does he have to have a reason to kill anyone in the game personally i think they should lock solo play if you go solo you stay solo untill you clear save none of this swapping and changing garbage , i have only ever played in open and only ever will and if someone wants to come try and kill me so be it im not going to cry about it
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I dunno, they seem similar to me, just a bit longer in duration.
Exactly. So, in the game lore, there are prison systems and the like - who is in all these prisons? If everyone gets away with a fine, or gets themselves blown up by a friend to farm the bounty, and then gets instantly teleported back into a station, no real harm done, carry on - where is the actual punishment? Logical and coherent don't seem to chime with what I see in the galaxy at present. Custodial sentences are obviously a part of life in the Elite lore, so they should be represented somehow in how the game is played.
From my POV, if you get a prison term, you are in the game - just in a cell somewhere, waiting for your sentence timer to elapse. You are playing the game, as a prisoner.
Tbh I would have expected - since they marketed it as a MMO - to be one. However, for one to work, you have to have a civilized area which is policed effectively. Starter systems simply must have iron-tight security. Of course I'm savvy of PvP based MMOs, so I move out of starter areas post haste knowing newbie gankers will congregate there, but to someone who is expecting a functional MMO, newbie killing is a show-stopper. Even in EVE, with it's full loss and loot and all things allowed theme, newbie systems are off limits to gankers (you will get banned). You can't kill people in the first few hours of play. They need to figure out the interface and how things work for a start and actually build up some capital you can steal 
The other part is the whole insurance thing - while it means that the victim doesn't lose much, it also means that the attacker doesn't lose much either. Having your ship blown up isn't much of a punishment when the loss cost in terms of time is so low.
The other part is the whole insurance thing - while it means that the victim doesn't lose much, it also means that the attacker doesn't lose much either. Having your ship blown up isn't much of a punishment when the loss cost in terms of time is so low.
Except then Frontier really would get every refund demand ever if accidentally nailing a cop with a stray beam laser landed you a month in jail or something.
It's very hard to properly punish players in a game without destroying the fun of said game, and once it's destroyed there's no going back. You'll lose so much traffic you might not ever recover. No, what needs to happen is steeper bounties, and NPC police that actually do their job. Matter of fact, *every* AI needs their skills seriously buffed; not just hacky aimbot skills, but intelligent decisions at intelligent times. I can get interdicted by a cop in my Python and just boost away from his Viper if I want. That's a problem. I assume that cop has a boost button too, why not use it? Make them use shield cells like players do. Chaff like players do. Aim like players do. Outfit their ship's weapons like players do. Make them call for help like players do. Viper interdicts you, scans you and sees you're wanted; I want to hear comms chatter and see the guy suddenly in a wing of 4 to bring me down. Then fix submit-hopping, combat logging, and rebalance ship speed so that more ships are a threat. The speed mechanics in this game are so broken, there's about 4 ships that are viable combat ships only because they're fast, and everything else is subpar. Why? Because I can dictate when and how we fight, and how many guys are on my side. I can dictate whether or not the trader escapes, or I can dictate that only 1-2 player enemies can keep up with me, or none of the NPCs. At the moment the only thing that threatens a criminal player in this game is another player, and even that's iffy. What's that? Mr. Best Pilot in the Game has interdicted me in a faster, more powerful ship, and is about to smash my criminal face in for my misdeeds? No worries- boost, FA Off flip around so he can't hit my drives, target and charge to jump to another system, when fully charged, aim at star, FA-On, boost, and buh-bye. No chance whatsoever.
It's very hard to properly punish players in a game without destroying the fun of said game, and once it's destroyed there's no going back. You'll lose so much traffic you might not ever recover. No, what needs to happen is steeper bounties, and NPC police that actually do their job. Matter of fact, *every* AI needs their skills seriously buffed; not just hacky aimbot skills, but intelligent decisions at intelligent times. I can get interdicted by a cop in my Python and just boost away from his Viper if I want. That's a problem. I assume that cop has a boost button too, why not use it? Make them use shield cells like players do. Chaff like players do. Aim like players do. Outfit their ship's weapons like players do. Make them call for help like players do. Viper interdicts you, scans you and sees you're wanted; I want to hear comms chatter and see the guy suddenly in a wing of 4 to bring me down. Then fix submit-hopping, combat logging, and rebalance ship speed so that more ships are a threat. The speed mechanics in this game are so broken, there's about 4 ships that are viable combat ships only because they're fast, and everything else is subpar. Why? Because I can dictate when and how we fight, and how many guys are on my side. I can dictate whether or not the trader escapes, or I can dictate that only 1-2 player enemies can keep up with me, or none of the NPCs. At the moment the only thing that threatens a criminal player in this game is another player, and even that's iffy. What's that? Mr. Best Pilot in the Game has interdicted me in a faster, more powerful ship, and is about to smash my criminal face in for my misdeeds? No worries- boost, FA Off flip around so he can't hit my drives, target and charge to jump to another system, when fully charged, aim at star, FA-On, boost, and buh-bye. No chance whatsoever.
Yep, well spotted. It's one of many ways in which the game is very unfinished. Hopefully this is just baby steps, rather than how it will be left. The "mechanics" of civilised space need to be improved or in some cases, implemented. It will help make the badlands all the more thrilling, and unexpected violence in core systems all the more shocking. Finishing this stuff off is worldbuilding (or is that universe building?
).Right now, crime and punishment doesn't work- there are no consequences and there's nothing to stop ongoing trouble. It makes no sense for all systems to be the wild west, and denudes the game of flavour and character. However, FD appear to be mulling how to work on this stuff, so fingers crossed.
Wow, I like my punishment systems but that really is harsh!
Back in pre-alpha I remember making a suggestion that because our ships are a) our most valuable asset, b) our pride and joy and c) tools of the criminal trade, some sort of impounding system might work. If a player bounty or criminal reputation gets to a particular level, remove their prized ship for a few hours of game time and give them a Sidewider or Hauler in which to run a few pro bono missions for the local faction until their crimes have been mitigated. A sort of community service for the ED galaxy. IIRC it led indirectly to the whole ASBO Sidewinder meme.
Even back then there were detractors who said this was a punishment too far, and that nobody should have something taken away from them by a game. I didn't agree and I still don't; I think if done correctly it could be balanced quite well. After all this is a game in which people do lose their prized ship and get permanently busted down to a Sidewinder on occasion, albeit partly their own fault for not covering insurance. The idea of a similar, but temporary, punishment for severe criminal activity still seems reasonable to me and could be tied quite nicely into the reputation and mission systems which themselves are due for an imminent overhaul.
But of course we're also talking about a game in which even the most basic authority response has yet to be implemented for the supposedly "high security" systems. So whether it's a good idea or not, the notion that we'll ever see an impounding mechanic seems like a distant dream either way.
Just move away from busy areas, I am about 160 light years from Sol I havent seen any real cmdrs for days.
The thing is, it's part of the broken model of ED surely?
Ideally we want traders, pirates and bounty hunters all ONLINE, all going about their "business".
But with "murderers" simply allowed to troll other players with no real penalty, the game just breaks down. ie: What trader wants to risk X million of goods in their belly when they can get destroyed by a player just basically "trolling". They'll just play SOLO instead.
We need proper harsher penalties for murder and we need piracy tightened up/improved. eg: If a rating/score was built up of how many times you interdicted someone, and how many times you murdered them (ie: you destroyed a non-wanted), and then this rating is simply shown when you interdict someone, the CMDR being interdicted might behave very differently to a 78/2 interdictor, than a 11/10 interdictor!
Furthermore, if a hotkey was made available to eject a ton of your most valuable cargo (not rares unless you only have rares) it would make "payment" to pirates easier too!
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Wow, I like my punishment systems but that really is harsh!
I always thought that GTA games were missing a trick by not having you serve out your prison term. The gameplay that could come out of jailbreaks, riots, and the like is just too good an opportunity to pass up. Not so sure about the wisdom of a "slippery soap" sub-game, however...
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Please consider the possibility that on the forum they talk a lot tougher than they behave in-game.
It really can be for some but not for others. Open promises interaction with other players, not specifically PvP. It would be good gamesmanship to make sure any PvP encounters are consenual, then everyone gets the game they want - unless of course your game is to attack player who don't want PvP but only want to be able to talk to other human CMDRs. But frankly I don't care about those players and they can leave as far as I'm concerned.
Someone will no doubt say "go to Mobius" but if you don't know about Mobius, you don't know about Mobius. If you find a player in Open who doesn't want PvP then by all means tell them about Mobius and let them go. You both get what you both want and you come out of it like a decent grown-up not an anti-social thug. At the end of the day, that's really all that anyone can ask.
(I'm not directing that "you" at you specficially btw, Majinvash.)
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Luckily the bandits didn't randomly appear in a different instance to the sheriff.
Believe it or not some people do care. Picking on smaller prey for no reason is the act of a coward and ruin the game for others.
Thing is,
the game offers not much if you decide being a trader in open, beside the chill of being prey....
1. mine launchers are subpar, bombs non existant, missiles or torpedos nerved... so defending your self is quite limited in a trade vessel
2. Punishment by Law, far to easy to get rid off
What about a ship insurance loss for the third crime against another human commander... this way, at least the attacker risks something too...
And i completely agree, high sec and starter systems should offer far more protection, like sec forces reacting to interdictions really fast....
the game offers not much if you decide being a trader in open, beside the chill of being prey....
1. mine launchers are subpar, bombs non existant, missiles or torpedos nerved... so defending your self is quite limited in a trade vessel
2. Punishment by Law, far to easy to get rid off
What about a ship insurance loss for the third crime against another human commander... this way, at least the attacker risks something too...
And i completely agree, high sec and starter systems should offer far more protection, like sec forces reacting to interdictions really fast....
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Learn the art of deterrance.
Practice combat, buy a vulture and shove those projectiles in a part of the opponent's hull where no star shines.
The alternative is FD can provide a mercenary feature. Would work well with wings. You can check local bulletin boards for mercenaries and hire them.
Practice combat, buy a vulture and shove those projectiles in a part of the opponent's hull where no star shines.
The alternative is FD can provide a mercenary feature. Would work well with wings. You can check local bulletin boards for mercenaries and hire them.
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