See, THAT's why I don't play Open.

[Riktar]

You're probably right but it might at least identify them and even isolate them from the legitimate, responsible PVP players.

Agreed. But then again how do you find players to join the group as Newbies?

Somehow I don't think you would get allot of folks signing up for "Elite: Get your butt kicked"

And can you hear the cries from inside the game? "Hey, where are the Noobs you promised me? All I see are other butt kickers with no butts to kick and,,,, HEY, what the stink?!?!?! someone just kicked my butt! I am so outta here,,,,,,,"

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

There's no difference between being killed by an NPC or PC except that the winning PC CMDR will probably be experiencing the savage joy of victory. I think this thought is what hurts the loser more than losing to an NPC. Solo or PvE groups are the answer if you can't handle this. Open is for open to everything and anything.
The policing system does need to be improved but I reckon the planetary systems interactions need to be improved too. A player could be a villain in one system and a hero in another. This is a lot more complicated than the current model so we might be waiting some time to see 'effective' deep space policing.
Fly as you like; safe or dangerous.

I basically say the same thing earlier in this thread here : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=138836&p=2125530&viewfull=1#post2125530

 

[SteveLaw]

how is it bullying when he game allows legitimately? Players that kill other players are not exploiting are they ? I don't see your point..
I'm an explorer/trader a veritable carebear in my eyes, I love the current system.

The game also legitimately allows players to deliberately fly repeatedly into the sun. Self-destruct has been purposefully build into the menus, as has Clear Save. Do we have as many players do any of these things as we have players attack innocent and weak newbies?

We have no way of knowing of course, but we all know the answer I think. It isn't about what is legitimately allowed to happen in the game, that's a distraction from the question of PvP responsibility within a mixed environment.

 

[Armour]

The last few posts (about random targetting of weak ships as a statement) illustrate the issue. If such people don't really want a challenge, why play open at all? Why not stick to Solo?

And by "such people" I don't mean the person who just bought the game and is just trying not to crash into the docking bay or jettison their cargo by mistake. I mean those who whined long and loud enough so that FDEV dropped the prices of the FDL and Vulture far too low, and now spend their time randomly blowing up new players for kicks. If those brave souls had to contend with security that meant business, the forum tantrums would be epic.

 

[CMDRJob']

Interesting reading threads like these. As a Solo mode player, with an interest in the Friends/Group co-op mode, I've so far not understood the advantages of playing int Open mode. That is, unless one wants to simply engage in combat with other human players, which would obvioulsy be more challenging than the AI NPCs.

Are there any other benefits of being in Open mode that you can't equally enjoy in Solo?

the entire point of open for me exactly what the OP is complaining about. The chance that i will be attacked on a trade run which adds risk and therefore excitement to the game

 

[Jockey79]

If people want to encounter other players without the added worry of being killed for no reason, then Mobius is always here.

I'm starting to think FD should just put an option in the game menus;

Solo
Group
Mobius
Open

 

[SteveLaw]

Nevermind, was making the same point.

 

[rekina]

deleted

You are obviously very bad at reading. The "people" Armour tried to point out were different to the people you are talking about. The "people" he refers are people like you, who are so scared of killed in a video game so can't take your head out of the bed. AKA you don't want challenge to against those pirates so play solo mode forever. The "people" you misunderstood and referred are the people who find LOTS OF FUN from killing other people while hoping they'll fight back, regardless of how their target is challenging. You never see someone, who tried to interdict other people and somehow died of the consequences, comes here and complains about it. "I just interdicted someone in a weaker ship than mine and he outplayed me. This game sucks. Why would you play open play if I have to take risks from interdicting people?" Will never happen. They accept the risk from the moment they decided to interdict someone. Who is more brave now?

 

[Jack Schitt]

Folks still trotting out the "go Solo" trope are missing the point, or at least one point.

If I wanted to I could log into Solo right now, fly to within a few hundred light-seconds of Abraham Lincoln or Mars High, and start interdicting NPC trade ships and arbitrarily destroying them. I could do this for as long as I wanted with only bounty warnings and the very occasional, basically random, arrival of a couple of security ships to suggest I was doing anything untoward. As long as I didn't mind suffering a reputation loss with Mother Gaia or the other Federal factions, and I jumped over to another system to pay off my bounty occasionally, I could essentially do this forever.

This has nothing to do with PvE versus PvP, or Solo versus Open.

I should simply not be able to do that in the heart of the Federation. Ever. In any mode.

If FD get their act together with regards to criminality and law enforcement then I should be prevented from engaging in such activity, or at least from engaging in it for very long. That a decent law enforcement system might also dissuade others from random hollow-on-hollow attacks in Zaonce or Lave, and push criminality into the more lawless systems as Braben originally planned, is a bonus. But it's certainly not the sole aim, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, I can go into Solo mode. That will let me avoid PvP if that's what I want. But what it won't do is change the fact that the criminality and enforcement systems in the current build of this game are an absolute joke and an insult to its legacy. The NPC police in Frontier may have been the space equivalent of the Keystone Kops, swarming out of the station in endless numbers and quite often ramming into each other in the process, but at least they eventually got the job done and either destroyed or chased away the criminal player. The ones in ED can't even do that, which means something's gone very very wrong.

Note, just in case anyone gets the wrong idea, that previous sentence is not meant as a dig at SJA's improved AIs which are getting better all the time. It's simply that so few of them, if any, spawn where and when they're needed. That's not an AI problem, it's a fundamental problem with the game's rules.

 

[Armour]

You are obviously very bad at reading. The "people" Armour tried to point out were different to the people you are talking about. The "people" he refers are people like you, who are so scared of killed in a video game so can't take your head out of the bed. AKA you don't want challenge to against those pirates so play solo mode forever. The "people" you misunderstood and referred are the people who find LOTS OF FUN from killing other people while hoping they'll fight back, regardless of how their target is challenging. You never see someone, who tried to interdict other people and somehow died of the consequences, come here and complain about it. "I just interdicted someone in a weaker ship than mine and he outplayed me. This game sucks. Why would you play open play if I have to take risks from interdicting people?" Will never happen. They accept the risk from the moment they decided to interdict someone. Who is more brave now?

Someone is bad at reading here, anyway...

scared of killed

you don't want challenge to against those pirates

...and writing, apparently.

Go and use someone else's posts for your troll-fodder.

 

[rekina]

Someone is bad at reading here, anyway...



...and writing, apparently.

Go and use someone else's posts for your troll-fodder.

Was pointing out other's reading ability too much troll effort as non-native in english I guess? lel

 

[CmdrKull]

SC'ing back to the station from a RES, and a CMDR interdicts my Viper in his Vulture and just kills me for no reason. Didn't want anything, I hailed him, no reply, stowed my weapons, no reply, was drifting helplessly, no reply. I'm not that bothered, it was only 144k rebuy but it's 144k this guy took off me with no profit for himself or anything. In an hour of open play I've met 4 CMDRs, 2 killed me, 1 talked to me, 1 sparred with me. I know, it's only an hour but still..why bother?

That's more interaction in a single hour than I've had in full weekends of open-play.

Now, I only interdict people in beta builds, where I'm not really costing anyone anything, but I'm really not the chattiest person when I do. I might manage a "prepare to die" or "im gonna get ya!", but I might not. Messaging in Elite isn't ideal after all. As for why attack you, you were in a Viper so he/she probably wanted to test their skill or lack there-of against another person. Doing so without even messaging you was probably an indication of how they feared the fight may go if you weren't caught by surprise, so try to take it in stride: they're likely very new to combat (Vulture isn't exactly unaffordable to someone who has spent some time trading, probably in solo)
As for why bother, let's be honest if you are asking yourself then really the answer is "no reason". Open isn't a requirement, except during certain contests. You either want The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly or you don't. Sometimes I do. Sometimes you don't. Sometimes that's reversed. Open play is a good supplement to a very expansive single player game. when that gets debated people inevitably start calling for restrictions. "Lock everyone in either solo or open" "make community goals open only" "restrict open to solo switching". All of those things place limits on you and me, and for what? People stuck in solo get board, people stuck in open get fed up, and the only people that are really happy about it are the people that thrive on other peoples frustration.

 

[Mortifa]

The last few posts (about random targetting of weak ships as a statement) illustrate the issue. If such people don't really want a challenge, why play open at all? Why not stick to Solo?

And by "such people" I don't mean the person who just bought the game and is just trying not to crash into the docking bay or jettison their cargo by mistake. I mean those who whined long and loud enough so that FDEV dropped the prices of the FDL and Vulture far too low, and now spend their time randomly blowing up new players for kicks. If those brave souls had to contend with security that meant business, the forum tantrums would be epic.

You don't mean that the ships are actually balanced?

As it is right now a fully upgraded Vulture, Python or what ever can find a new player and take him on with very little fear of losing the battle, which is a major understatement.

Like a level 7 warlock in WoW stepping out of the starting zone and needing to defend themselves against a pimped out level 100 warlock, very unbalanced, as unbalanced as a person who feels fine doing this because it is a game called Eliteangerous.

A true warrior does not attack a lesser opponent, a coward does.

 

[AndyC77]

I imagine they do it for the same senseless reasons that murders kill people in real life; alot of the time no other reason than because they simply wanted to...

Some people simply enjoy spoiling somebody's day. Very sad isn't it?

 

[Armour]

Was pointing out other's reading ability too much troll effort as non-native in english I guess? lel

I think the forum should introduce bounties on posters for indiscriminately murdering the English language, but I am in a minority on that, I will freely admit.

The point was well-made earlier and remains valid: if there are so many players that just want a free-for-all, why not start up an "Ultraviolence" group instead, like the anti-Mobius group?

That way, they can have all the fun of random unprovoked combat, plenty of challenging opponents (because everyone with a pair would sign up surely), and no weak or new players to club like baby seals and force into solo or out of the game entirely!

Sounds like a win-win-win, does it not?

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

This was discussed earlier in the thread. NPCs at least have dialogue, no matter how stale or repetitive it might be. They fit a narrative. Look back at the OP. The attacking player attempted no communication. They did not even taunt. They showed LESS motivation than an NPC. They were less interesting than a very simple AI.

So a few words of dialog is what makes someone interesting to you? If the attacker in question spouted one line about his motivation it's ok to then kill?

What makes a player interesting to me is their irrationality. Players don't have to follow the rules of the game.

 

[SteveLaw]

So a few words of dialog is what makes someone interesting to you? If the attacker in question spouted one line about his motivation it's ok to then kill?

We were talking relatively, and about motivation of actions.

 

[Leper Messiah]

A true warrior does not attack a lesser opponent, a coward does.

This, all day long. +1

 

[Telen]

I'm a long long long time mmo pvper. For 15 years moved from pvp mmo to pvp mmo.

The main problems elite has is no place for pvpers to go and no safe zones for pve. The only times I've been interdicted is near starting areas in fed space. In anarchy I've never even seen another player. If which I think is always preferable frontier want to stick with a single server areas need to be better defined or criminality more lasting. Prey on people in fed space and that stays with you for a few months and you will be attacked by defence forces when you enter fed space. Also there needs to be an ongoing pvp area that is either constant or moves with the storyline but is defined as the pvp arena. I think queueing for this might hurt immersion though.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Some people like to immerse themselves in a game and play by it's internal logic. You sound like you would be happier in a pure PvP group, why don't you join NightsLong? (It's got a nice ring to it, don't you think? )

How do psycho killers break the games logic? Humans are illogical in real life, so people not adhering to decency and fair playonlymakes the game more logical. In real life people get killed randomly all the time.