Seems like frontier actually doesn't want everyone to have a carrier.. for technical reasons?

CMDR Karrde Sun

CMDR Karrde Sun
From everything that's happened so far.. the only possible reason for fleet carriers being the way they are is that due to technical issues, frontier actually don't want there to be too many fleet carriers around.

StuartGT (great spot, thanks) linked this very insightful clip over on reddit:


Steven B implies that they know the system will break if.. fleet carrier numbers push the system in some load condition.. but also that they aren't planning to (or cant?) fix the issues, because they're balancing it so it won't happen? Why would it not be realistic for everyone to have one? We're all going in with the exact opposite assumption.. that everyone will get one because carriers are for us. Or "the extreme edge cases" that they aren't going to handle actually are not edge cases...

The fact that on the exegious beta stream the system loaded up with carriers crashed provided the final evidence. Hmmm.. yeah. Sounds like world of pain for the next few months while players wrestle with frontier on gameplay vs what technical work is required to make it happen.

They should have just said something, i personally wouldn't have asked for carriers if they just admitted they're impossible to build for individuals.
 

Faded Glory

Faded Glory
Yep, they said this back when they first introduced them as squadron carriers, that they would put a technical strain on the servers and that they weren't intending that everyone should have one. Uproar ensued, and it would seem that instead of scaling them down, they just renamed them fleet carriers, said anyone could own one and priced them so they'd really only be practical for a group to run. :)

I wonder also whether the odd time to arrival counter behavior is tied to the increased load on the servers in beta, or whether that's just something entirely separate that has broken for no apparent reason.
 

CMDR Karrde Sun

CMDR Karrde Sun
Faded Glory said:
Yep, they said this back when they first introduced them as squadron carriers, that they would put a technical strain on the servers and that they weren't intending that everyone should have one. Uproar ensued, and it would seem that instead of scaling them down, they just renamed them fleet carriers, said anyone could own one and priced them so they'd really only be practical for a group to run. :)

I wonder also whether the odd time to arrival counter behavior is tied to the increased load on the servers in beta, or whether that's just something entirely separate that has broken for no apparent reason.
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Yeah they did didn't they. Ill watch the livestreams again over the next mining session and link the clip if someone doesn't do it before.

This is going to be a bloodbath. If frontier can't they're not going to. We all know this.
 

Faded Glory

Faded Glory
I think the real problem is that since they were not discounted in beta, then the amount that might / could be purchased could already destabilize the game...

They might have to make them more expensive and up the running costs if they are going to keep them to a number that the infrastructure can handle. :p
 

CMDR Karrde Sun

CMDR Karrde Sun
Faded Glory said:
They might have to make them more expensive and up the running costs if they are going to keep them to a number that the infrastructure can handle. :p
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That would be so... just frontier class development. Im laughing well because its not unrealistic.

Makes sense why they're so keen to auto remove them from the game too. 147 million per week should do it, after they ran the numbers :p

I'll probably have about 3 weeks in mine, there's some metrics for you frontier, ha ha ha.
 

zimms

zimms
How many carriers could the system handle? 2500? Do you think that number is too high or too low?

In 2017 has sold about 2.5m copies. That number would be way higher by now, but let's be generous and use that one.

In that case, carriers were only meant to be for the top 0.1% of players.
 

Wolf Starslayer

Wolf Starslayer
Plenty will afford them even with no screaming forum inspired readjustment in costs.

FD are the only ones who know the average wealth ; they have crunched the numbers and come out with a reasonable figure accordingly.

I mean the weekly upkeep is a whole hr , maybe 2 ( a few extra for the fuel if u wanna jump ) at LTD rates ; hardly onerous.
 

CMDR Karrde Sun

CMDR Karrde Sun
Ian Skippy said:
I have never assumed that everyone will get one. No idea why anyone would ever believe something like that. Most people don't even have a cutter/corvette.
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Because they were made available to individuals. I don't believe its possible to not link the offer for people to get it to recipient actually wanting to after the fact.

Because you can get one, in short.
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
CMDR Karrde Sun said:
Because they were made available to individuals. I don't believe its possible to not link the offer for people to get it to recipient actually wanting to after the fact.

Because you can get one, in short.
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I am not following your logic. So because it is possible to get something, everyone will get it? That is the reasoning?
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
CMDR Karrde Sun said:
Absolutely in their own time. If you were the owner of the store, you'd be pretty d u m b not to plan for that outcome anyway.
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You can type dumb, no need to bypass a filter. Anyway, this is a computer game. And barring Star Citizen, game studios don't earn money by selling fake space ships. They don't need everyone to buy a expensive FC. It is not a real store. It is a fake store for fake spaceships. In fact, in an online computer game, the most expensive thing is almost never designed to be owned by everyone. Everyone has the rusty iron dagger. Everyone wants the Amazing Awesomeness Scimitar of the Gods, but few truly obtain it.

I am honestly a bit confused why there is any misunderstanding about this.
 

Erinir

Erinir
There might be one way for Frontier to ease the server load that comes with introducing fleet carriers to the game. They simply inform players of their intention to add smaller FC variants to the game with much reduced abilities - they can only jump once a week, different variants come with less pads, squeaky seating, no customisable services (different variants come with pre-defined services). That way, most players hold off on buying the largest, most powerful variant for something that is more in keeping with how they play the game, it has less load on the servers and still defines that financially elite set of cmdrs who have the time and credits to be able to run the Drake-class.
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
Ian Skippy said:
You can type dumb, no need to bypass a filter. Anyway, this is a computer game. And barring Star Citizen, game studios don't earn money by selling fake space ships. They don't need everyone to buy a expensive FC. It is not a real store. It is a fake store for fake spaceships. In fact, in an online computer game, the most expensive thing is almost never designed to be owned by everyone. Everyone has the rusty iron dagger. Everyone wants the Amazing Awesomeness Scimitar of the Gods, but few truly obtain it.

I am honestly a bit confused why there is any misunderstanding about this.
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True, I will never unlock everything in Warframe. But I don't need to - I pick the stuff I might find fun and then grind a bit. But that's not the point. The point is that devs are notorious in underestimating how far players go. Putting the entire game at risk by inserting content that destabilises the system would be insanely risky. They'd of course pull the plug before push comes to shove, but I find it hard to believe they aren't confident in fixing the tech issue and are going with just big disincentives. That'd be mad.
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Navigare Necesse Est said:
True, I will never unlock everything in Warframe. But I don't need to - I pick the stuff I might find fun and then grind a bit. But that's not the point. The point is that devs are notorious in underestimating how far players go. Putting the entire game at risk by inserting content that destabilises the system would be insanely risky. They'd of course pull the plug before push comes to shove, but I find it hard to believe they aren't confident in fixing the tech issue and are going with just big disincentives. That'd be mad.
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Oh, sure. Its why I don't factor in these rumours. I have no clue what the demands/options are at FDs proposal, nor is that my problem really. I just make suggestions from a game design/gameplay pov, and that is about it. If, for example, I believe they should cost 1b instead of 5b, I wouldn't particularly care why they would still end up as 5b.
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
The problem with linking them explicitly to squadrons is that it then requires silly behaviour if your squadron is large enough to benefit from two carriers.

A ten-player squadron? Sure, one carrier is probably fine. A three-hundred player squadron also just using one carrier, that's a bit limiting and encouraging splitting squadrons down to get more carriers is not great. (And if squadrons can own an entire fleet of carriers, it's not really doing anything over individual ownership for limiting their numbers)



I think carrier numbers ... probably around 10,000 long-term, perhaps (so maybe ~5% of active players) might be about right. I suspect the performance limitation is not so much on carriers total but on carriers per system, and that many carriers once spread out is probably not too bad. (But they might need to add quite a few more carrier shipyards to prevent horrendous congestion in the first few days...)



Another thing that's likely a performance limitation - the jump time. Propagating station changes across servers takes time (the few times they have changed a station outside the thursday tick or another shutdown, it's taken quite a while to show up for everyone) so there's probably a hard practical limit on how low it can go. (At the moment it looks like an hour's notice might not be enough)
 
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