Sequencer Question

[Thrillride]

I've got a question:

I just wanted to make a water show with the sequencer. When I put a fountain on a special trigger time (e.g. 1 sec) and I want to use it later, but with a different time (e.g. 0,5 sec) it's not possible to have different times for a fountain, or? (I hope you get what I mean.)
And is it possible to change the time of a whole group? Or do i really have to choose each fountain??? [sour]

Would be a suggestion for a improvement


Am I just to blind to see how it works?

PS:

I wanted to make a fountain sequence, where the "fountain wave" (of different fountains) goes from left to right and then all together, but stop at exactly the same time.

 

[Bullethead]

OK, there are several interrelated things here, which I'll try to disentangle

First thing is, every triggerable item (special effect, door, light, whatever) runs an animation sequence that make the item appear to do whatever it does. This animation sequence takes a certain amount of time, its duration, to run through. Until that duration is over, that particular item cannot be triggered again.

You can change the duration of some items (ex, lights) but not others (ex. fireworks). This can only be done by clicking on the individual item (ex. the light), making sure its "activate on trigger" box is checked, and then typing in a new duration (if that's possible for that particular item). You CANNOT change durations from within the sequencer's menu.

The upshot of the above is that if an item has a duration of 3 seconds, it cannot be triggered more often than once every 3.1 seconds. So, if you try to trigger that same item at times 0, 2, and 4, the one at time 2 won't work but the others will.

The time values shown in the display sequencer menus are DELAYS, not durations. The display sequencer has 2 levels of delays. Each display group can have a delay, which is the time that will pass between the sequencer itself being triggered and that display group starting. Then, each item within the display group can have its own delay, which is the time between the start of the group as a whole and this particular item starting.

It's pretty easy to set up multiple activations of the same item with different delay times. Create the 1st instance and then go over to the right end of its line in the sequence editor to where you see a vertical row of 3 dots. Click on those dots and this brings up a menu, one option of which is DUPLICATE. Select that, then given the new copy a different delay time than the original. Just bear in mind that its start time can't be until after the end of the duration from its first run.

To get the effect you want with the fountains, the water jets you're using must have editable durations. Then you use 2 separate water jets for each spray, one with a short duration (for the wave) and one with a long duration (for the unison spray that stops simultaneously). So you call the short duration ones in order from left to right to make the wave, then call all the long duration ones at the end. Because all the long duration ones have the same duration, they all end at once.

 

[Thrillride]

think you misunderstood me...

You CANNOT change durations from within the sequencer's menu.

Of course I Can. By clicking on the (...) in the sequence gruop. Then I can change the time of a fountain! (It's just the normal Trigger Menu, but you can change it in the sequencer group, but just one by one.)


And I don't want to have different delay times. I want different times of activating a fountain (for a show).

Can anyone else help???

 

[Bullethead]

think you misunderstood me...

Other way around, I'm afraid.

Of course I Can. By clicking on the (...) in the sequence gruop. Then I can change the time of a fountain! (It's just the normal Trigger Menu, but you can change it in the sequencer group, but just one by one.)

No, no, no. The ONLY times you can change in the display sequencer menu (or a ride's trigger menu) are delays, NOT durations. The ONLY way to change a DURATION is to edit the duration time of the individual item itself.

Take a light for example. All lights (and most other triggerable items) have a default duration of 3 seconds. So, if you don't change that by editing the individual light itself, each time you trigger the light, it will turn on for 3 seconds then go off again. And it can't be triggered a second time until at least 3.1 seconds after the 1st time.

So, assuming the object Light 1 still has its default 3-second duration, if you try to trigger it via a display sequencer more often than 3.1 seconds apart, it won't work. Here's an example (all the times shown below are DELAYS, which are the ONLY times you can change in the display sequencer)

Display Group 1
* Light 1 0.0 <---- Works because it's the 1st time you trigger the light. Light turns on and will remain on for the next 3 seconds.
* Light 1 1.0 <---- Doesn't work because light's duration from 1st trigger is still running
* Light 1 2.0 <---- Doesn't work because light's duration from 1st trigger is still running
* Light 1 3.0 <---- Doesn't work because light's duration from 1st trigger is still running. Light turns off at this point.
* Light 1 (any time > 3.0) <---- Works because light's duration from 1st trigger is now over

And I don't want to have different delay times. I want different times of activating a fountain (for a show).

Different delay times ARE the way to have different times of activation. That's how this works

Look, I'll spell it all out for you.... This assumes you can change the duration of water jets, which I think is possible but I forget.

So, let's say you have 4 positions where you want to have water jets shoot up. These positions are 1-4 from left to right. You want a wave where the jets shoot up individually for a short time in order from left to right, and you determine through experimentation that having each jet last for 2 seconds and fire 1 second apart gives the look you want. After this is done, you want jets at all 4 positions to fire simultaneously for 5 seconds and then stop simultaneously. This can be done as follows:

At each position where you want jets to appear, you put 2 jet objects. One jet in each pair has a duration of 2 seconds, the other has a duration of 5 seconds. So the layout of parts with their names looks like this:

Position 1 Position 2 Position 3 Position 4
Jet 2-1 Jet 2-2 Jet 2-3 Jet 2-4 <--- All these jets have durations of 2 seconds
Jet 5-1 Jet 5-2 Jet 5-3 Jet 5-4 <---- All these jets have durations of 5 seconds

In the display sequencer's sequence menu, it would look like this:

Display Group Wave 0.0 <--- This display group starts as soon as the sequencer is activated
* Jet 2-1 0.0 <--- This jet starts as Display Group Wave starts. Jet 2-1 will run for 2 seconds
* Jet 2-2 1.0 <--- This jet starts 1 second after Display Group Wave starts and will run for 2 seconds, overlapping the jet above
* Jet 2-3 2.0 <--- This jet starts 2 seconds after Display Group Wave starts and will run for 2 seconds
* Jet 2-4 3.0 <--- This jet starts 3 seconds after Display Group Wave starts and will run for 2 seconds

Display Group Wall 4.0 <--- This display group starts 4 seconds after the display sequencer as a whole is activated
* Jet 5-1 0.0 <----- ALL jets in Display Group Wall fire simultaneously when Display Group Wall starts. Because they all have 5 second
* Jet 5-2 0.0 durations,they all run for 5 seconds and stop simultaneously.
* Jet 5-3 0.0
* Jet 5-4 0.0

So, on the overall timeline, it works like this

T=0: Jet 2-1 fires
T=1: Jet 2-2 fires
T=2: Jet 2-3 fires,Jet 2-1 stops
T=3: Jet 2-4 fires,Jet 2-2 stops
T=4: Jets 5-1, 5-2, 5-3, and 5-4 all fire, Jet 2-3 stops
T=5: Jet 2-4 stops
T=9: Jets 5-1, 5-2, 5-3, and 5-4 all stop

 

[Thrillride]

Okay...

not satisfying.

There should be a solution like in real life, so that you can change the "trigger time" for each timeline step. For Example in RCT3 you could change the lenght of the water jet in the timeline. In real life you don't have different water jets for different time setting. One jet can shoot 1s, then 2s.... Its changed by hydraulic (Also the hight of the fountain, where I have to put different jets in PC).

And it's not realistic enough. If I would change my show like you said it, I would have (100 Jets, for 2 timings 200 jets, for my music 4 different timings in 10 sec...)... over 1.000 of water jets.... Really unrealistic.

 

[Bullethead]

not satisfying.

Yeah, it would be nice if we could change durations dynamically from within the sequencer, so you wouldn't need separate items for each different duration you want at the same place. Maybe that will happen someday, But for the time being, the above is how you have to do things like this.

The sequencer could definitely be improved. It has a number of problems with the features it does have, let alone us dreaming of stuff it doesn't have. For example:
* If the sequencer is part of a building, you can't change the music it plays. You can only change the music if the sequencer is a stand-alone scenery object.
* If the sequencer is part of a building, closing the sequence editing menu closes the building editor as well, which is an annoyance.
* If your show includes more items/actions than will fit in a single sequencer, you cannot copy the 1st sequencer and keep going on the copy because the copy still thinks it's the original even though now it has its own name. Thus, it can't even start until the original is totally over, so you get a gap in the show instead of a smooth transition. This is actually a bigger problem than it might seem at first because if you can't copy the 1st sequencer, you have to rebuild all the complex display groups on it that you want to repeat on the 2nd sequencer. The only option is to build the 2nd sequencer completely from scratch.

But hey, it's a brand new thing. I expect it will become a lot more user-friendly over the next few updates.

 

[Big Draco]

Thanks Bullethead.

That is a really clear set of instructions - nice one! [up]