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[Kancro Vantas]

I do not intend to sound " conceited and condescending" or tell anyone how the game should be played. From your reports it is clear that you have suffered all the frustration that happens to every group playing the BGS. Your achievements are astounding, and when I am talking about the number of systems AEDC has flipped it is not meant to belittle any of it. What we have done is due to an approach that is different to other groups. Our own minor faction isnt a lot bigger than yours. It's only that as a group dedicated to the Alliance as a whole we search for systems with an Alliance minor faction and turn it. The effort to do so was minimal in 1.3. Run a few missions and trigger civil war, run a few more to win it. As every system switching to the Alliance is a success for us, we play with a way higher number of potential target systems than groups that only care about their systems.

So yes, we are indeed playing 2 different games. Noone but us cares about flipping some backwater systems to a major faction.

Flinn, I apologize for not cross checking references. Is funny because I wasn't thinking of you as "conceited or condescending" but some other ordinal primate commentators in other threads....

But since you replied on it, well, then let me retort that yes, we indeed are playing 2 different games, my man. I am an independent faction and for not being allied to any of the powers or allegiances, flipping a system to independent doesn't necessarily increases my chances to expand to that system. If anything we have noticed that economy has a big role in it, and no, we haven't expanded much because, well, you know how it's been rolling for us, so still figuring out how it works.

But for instance, that mechanism that seems to be working for you, is not true for me. And saying that one just need to target a system and expand to it, as if you are picking cherries, is not the way it works for us and if anything is nothing trivial to do in the BGS whatsoever. We barely can witness where the next expansion will take us, within a group of 3-4 possible system, but no way are we close to master it as to: "go here now!" Probably we'll unlocked it in the "next level", but if economy is the factor for us, then we never will because you can change the factions, but you can not change the economy that a system runs, no matter what.

With that framework, and acknowledging that you guys control way more systems that we probably ever will, your comments have a weight man. If you say that the BGS is working for your million systems, and I look into my 3 or 4 systems and see that is all pretty much a mess in comparison, I don't doubt you: I doubt us! All what I am saying is no one here should take for granted that what works for them, necessarily works for everyone else, because conditions do play a huge difference in the variables of the BGS, and again, not necessarily talking about you, but since you are a heavy guy when it comes to it, do not lose this from sight.

Notice how, even when it's been hard for us, 3 expansion in 10 months, I didn't come here from the getgo to say, "oh this is wrong that we now have to move at 3-5%". I reckon that a change needs to take place, if the guy that controls 10,000 system is saying this is a problem! lol...it just highlights the deep "dark matter" my four systems seems to be in that they don't behave like that! lol

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Everything else in the comment we agree.. no issues there...

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Back to topic, cycle from getting to a new system, to raise influence to challenge controlling faction, to have the Civil War, to then raise influence back again to Expansion level, should be around 1 month - 5 weeks. Not longer than that. Adjust influence swings accordingly and we should be set, IMHO.

It is also good that the tick seems to be happening regularly again. No words yet n the cap though and a wall of text on horizons instead in the Dev Updates... umpf

 

[_Flin_]

I was talking about flipping systems, as in conquering, not expanding.

We are currently working on a plan to test targeted expansions, but it is a looooong plan, with many variables, and not really easy.

Afaik government type has nothing at all to do with the chance to expand into a system. Expansion happens, and you go where its close and a place available.


Edit: BGS does not always work and is prone to bugs. Sometimes they are obvious, sometimes they are results of hidden features (e.g. cooldown mechanics in former patches).
With more target systems (as in: systems you work in to flip them or expand or conquer stations) you are less prone to bugs hitting hard. When you only care about 1 system, and it is in a bad state or bugged... your pretty much effed.

 

[Ziljan]

During the registration process for our faction, FD told us that if we wanted to change name to a more fitting "Explorer's Nation", we would lose all of the systems but the Capital. Exactly 1 second after reading that answer, the ridiculously long name of Social Eleu Progressive Party started to sound like the most perfect, and fittingly name for an Exploration Group, because there was no way in Hell and Heaven that I was going to risk having to do it all over again!!!

What the fudge? Lose all the systems from a simple name exchange???? What kind of 1984 dystopian bureaucratic mind-bleep is that? I can't believe someone couldn't be bothered to type in 2 names? So months of effort could be wiped out? LOL. What a BGS nightmare you've been living in Kancro. Much sympathy to you sir and all your efforts.

 

[Kancro Vantas]

I was talking about flipping systems, as in conquering, not expanding.

We are currently working on a plan to test targeted expansions, but it is a looooong plan, with many variables, and not really easy.

Afaik government type has nothing at all to do with the chance to expand into a system. Expansion happens, and you go where its close and a place available.


Edit: BGS does not always work and is prone to bugs. Sometimes they are obvious, sometimes they are results of hidden features (e.g. cooldown mechanics in former patches).
With more target systems (as in: systems you work in to flip them or expand or conquer stations) you are less prone to bugs hitting hard. When you only care about 1 system, and it is in a bad state or bugged... your pretty much effed.

Yup, that too.... flipping is not the same as expanding...got it.

Also, Economy is not the same than Government.. I was talking about Economy... that can't be changed. If a system is Agricultural, it will ever be agricultural.

And yeah, being pretty much effed caring for only 2 systems for the longest!!! Story of my life!!! lol..

Oh well...

What the fudge? Lose all the systems from a simple name exchange???? What kind of 1984 dystopian bureaucratic mind-bleep is that? I can't believe someone couldn't be bothered to type in 2 names? So months of effort could be wiped out? LOL. What a BGS nightmare you've been living in Kancro. Much sympathy to you sir and all your efforts.

Welcome to my world Z! Now you get my hang ups to leave the system or rename the faction?? Not a trivial matter for me... really isn't...

With that being said, I also think and imagine this is really not such a big change but one they don't feel like doing right now...I hope though, that eventually, as more and more register, just having a typo in one of them, will have to open the possibility of changing names in the future.. then I'll go to town, but for now, SEPP all the way!!! lol...

 

[_Flin_]

Yup, that too.... flipping is not the same as expanding...got it.

Also, Economy is not the same than Government.. I was talking about Economy... that can't be changed. If a system is Agricultural, it will ever be agricultural.

And yeah, being pretty much effed caring for only 2 systems for the longest!!! Story of my life!!! lol..

Oh well...



Welcome to my world Z! Now you get my hang ups to leave the system or rename the faction?? Not a trivial matter for me... really isn't...

With that being said, I also think and imagine this is really not such a big change but one they don't feel like doing right now...I hope though, that eventually, as more and more register, just having a typo in one of them, will have to open the possibility of changing names in the future.. then I'll go to town, but for now, SEPP all the way!!! lol...

We had an additional faction with a dot in the name inserted into our home system that took away our home system main station. From our main faction, currently in 5 systems.

Well... we call them "the evil twin".

 

[Kancro Vantas]

We had an additional faction with a dot in the name inserted into our home system that took away our home system main station. From our main faction, currently in 5 systems.

Well... we call them "the evil twin".

OMG, Flin!! YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!

I'd kill!...

You know what? I probably don't have the temper for this BGS after all.. I mean.. that's adding insult to injury!!! I can't... I can't really..

Poor guys... I would have such a blockade.. mayhem in the freaking system... if its not mine is no one elses!!! bwhahahaa! Burn!! burn!!!

Thank you, now I'll have a new nightmare at nights....

 

[Roybe]

Edit: I think the best thing that could happen to the BGS woulf be an expansion cooldown of 1 day. That way minor factions could grow into little realms, and there'd be constant conflicts, alliances and assaults between player groups. Which would be cool.
And there are way enough systems to allow for it.

I would like to see a diminishing return based on distance from original home world to expansions outside a given radius that is still 'doable' but would take extra effort, time, or some mechanic related to PP (carry some amount of papers from home world to further system, once close systems are 'saturated' from Homeworlds)...ultimately tying small faction BGS play into PP...

 

[Roybe]

Allegiance type vs. Economy....I do not understand why Economy takes precedence over Allegiance! Why FDev, why?

Why should an Independent faction, working on behalf of the Alliance, have to push a Federation or Empire faction into control...rather than an Independent faction? Does not compute guys!

 

[Walter2]

Was there an update tick tonight? Neither of the two hitech systems that I use for reference showed any changes - these were two that suffered really wild swings in 1.3.
Nothing I did last night seems to have made any impression, but I suppose it's a big universe and I'm just a small trader.

 

[Kancro Vantas]

Was there an update tick tonight? Neither of the two hitech systems that I use for reference showed any changes - these were two that suffered really wild swings in 1.3.
Nothing I did last night seems to have made any impression, but I suppose it's a big universe and I'm just a small trader.

Nope, not tick today or yesterday...the last tick happened in the evening of Thursday.

Edit: we did have tocks saturday and sunday. However, I now have to point out that the influence, after trying it for over a week in current state, is moving way too little. Nothing beyond 3% and that required lots of effort.

On the other hand, some very populated systems we can have that impact and in others with way less population we have poured similar effort barely making a dent. Doesn't seem to make too much sense at the moment.

A war should have gone pending when we matched a minor faction for a couple of ticks. It did not, probably because of a boom state present? Shouldnt be the case AFAIK. While two other minor factions have been having a mini Vietnam: 10 days in Civil War with sustained influences of 3.9 vs 2.3.

Another faction went for a BOOM that lasted 5 days only.

:::scratches head:::

 

[Walter2]

Seems to be working again now, at least over the past two ticks. I managed to raise one faction by 4.2% on my own doing odd jobs.
I think I would have given up if the cap was as low as 2.5% as there are too few of us to spread the disappointment around. As it is, a third of the group has gone off exploring.

 

[Kancro Vantas]

I have to report that after three weeks with this patch, something seems to not be working right.

We keep running same types of missions across our systems and the results are not being consistent in every tick: some days we run 10-12 mission and see influence grow by 2-3%. Next day we keep at it and we see a decline of -.7 to -4%.

It's counterproductive to lose so much on a single sweep without apparent reason -we keep a close check on traffic.

I think the cap is not helping: if every faction decided to go up 3-4%, then we could lose 9-12% on a single tick, but only able to push 3-5%? Not balanced.

Will submit ticket for it.

 

[Walter2]

And no update tick again today?

 

[Raiko]

I'm going to give the BGS a miss until somebody from FD is confident enough that it works to dare to provide a Guide to the BGS.

So long as it remains an undocumented and obfuscated feature I'd rather assume that it's broken as I lack the spare time to test the Alpha/Beta BGS without some better guidance from the Devs than "x,y and z should solve the problems that many of you are having with the background sim."

 

[Walter2]

I'm going to give the BGS a miss until somebody from FD is confident enough that it works to dare to provide a Guide to the BGS.

So long as it remains an undocumented and obfuscated feature I'd rather assume that it's broken as I lack the spare time to test the Alpha/Beta BGS without some better guidance from the Devs than "x,y and z should solve the problems that many of you are having with the background sim."

I don't mind not knowing all the answers - trying to find best solutions is more than half the fun.

What I can't take is the inconsistency, never knowing if the effort put in over several hours is going to have any effect effect at all. I don't really enjoy the wars (there seems to be considerably more conflict than there was a year ago), but it's a necessary procedure and I imagine I'm in the minority. I prefer trading (considerably fewer fetch, carry and find missions than there used to be). But the lack of result in any area of activity is seriously devaluing this game.

 

[Roybe]

I actually don't agree, I think influence should be a slow process. I would be happy with a max of 1% a day. So in 30 days you can swing it by 30%. It should take time to do these things, not just a few days. It also means you don't have to grind out missions in the same place all the time, you can go elsewhere and do other things.

If that was the case we'd still be waiting for our first war in Lugh! ;P

The 1.3 times felt about the best...just a little finagling around those settings would have kept things pretty solid overall.

With a 15 billion person population in Lugh...I shudder to think what everyone thinks we should have to do to hold onto that system. Our fight for that system took us nearly 10 months to get to this point. That kind of time table feels about correct. However that included a lot of action and activities. If the actions and activities were slowed even by a factor of 1-2 weeks...that system would take years to deal with. No one has time for that kind of game play. The real thing to consider in this is that more players does not increase the rate of change...just lessens the overall amount of work a single player has to do to incite change. If you were to increase both the man hours required AND the time to incur changes...the game is not fun...or playable for new/small groups.

 

[Raiko]

I agree that it's better if there's some mystery to the sim, but at the moment there's no official guidance at all, even though there are still significant issues with the BGS that I'd like to constructively help to resolve. Working almost completely in the dark, we don't know what's helping and what's broken.

Some missions help, some may or may not work in reverse. Have the "influence nuke" bugs been fixed or just limited to 5%?

I should be able to take a mission for any minor faction that I choose, knowing that success of the mission will be beneficial to the issuing faction, but I can't - indeed some missions are accidentally generated by factions against themselves in other systems!

Roybe offered some great advice in the SEPP faction thread that we might be better off holding influence in our home system as close to 0% as possible, while expanding elsewhere. While this would work great with the BGS working how it does it totally breaks immersion that the best thing you can do for your faction is to destroy influence at home.

I'm currently not in SEPP space, but I should be able to pop into one of my forum friends minor factions and run a couple of missions for them, safe in the knowledge that I'm not messing up weeks of effort, but I can't!

 

[Dralamir]

If there's is cap to influence changes per Commander, this should be somehow displayed to those working on the BGS. I don't mind not knowing what the limit, exactly, but I sure would like to see when that 'semi-arbitrary' cap has been reached.

 

[Walter2]

If there's is cap to influence changes per Commander, this should be somehow displayed to those working on the BGS. I don't mind not knowing what the limit, exactly, but I sure would like to see when that 'semi-arbitrary' cap has been reached.

Not sure a cap per commander would solve any problems: the system could so easily be subverted by a large group of players.

It wouldn't be possible for FD to give you any idea of how much influence you were exerting as you can never know if there is someone in another Group working to a different agenda. This is probably why the update tick only takes place on a roughly 24-hour cycle after all influences have been correlated.

But it is frustrating when you spend a couple of hours or so working towards your goal, only to find the next day that all your efforts have been in vain. That's part of the game.

I'm in a relatively quiet part of the galaxy and the largest overnight swing I've seen recently is a very reasonable 8%. Anyone in a region where there is more competition may have had different experiences.

 

[Dralamir]

Not sure a cap per commander would solve any problems: the system could so easily be subverted by a large group of players.

I'm not saying that there should be a cap, just that IF there is one we should be able to see such a limit to our actions.