Shield Booster Diminishing Returns- Stop the Stack

Banks are terrible but can at least be countered somewhat. You can't counter a 6 booster FdL, when every other medium (except the clone FdL) has only 4, and ships like the FAS which are meantvas hybrid/hull tanks need some utility to not totally get rekt by module sniping with multis (chaff) or packhound mission kill (ecm/pd).

You can only counter Cell Banks with one particular weapon when engineered with one particular special effect so that’s not really ideal. If Lasers could have the same effect? Now we’re talking ... but I still dislike that an opponent can have reserves of “magic” shields that you can’t “see” when comparing how much damage they’ve taken vs how much damage you’ve taken ... it makes “how fast are there shields dropping compared with mine” utterly meaningless.

6 Boosters vs 4 Boosters? Put some Guardian SRMs in instead - that FdL has precious little room for those.

However, I absolutely agree on the FAS front ... that ship desperately needs some love to provide a true alternative to the FdL or Chieftain ...

Personally I think a new variant (FAS MkII or FAS Interceptor) is needed, with the same internals as the Gunship - to allow for a C6 shield - but the flight model / speed of the FAS ... and with the mediums moved to the side positions for better firing arcs. Or something like that.
 
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Come on Ratty, don't troll.
You know he means PvP in general is fun, just no slugfests of 20-30 minutes :rolleyes:
But is it trolling only because I am pointing out the essential flaw in the suggestion?

PvP players build ships to fight against other players - good for a quick 'bang' but not a lot else - so gravitate to maximum defense / offense possible (even if you do fly a Fed brick by choice) and then complain it isn't fun because everyone else interested in PvP is building to survive too. Of course it is going to take an age to pop / reach agreed percentages if the players skills are approxomately equal.

So the PvP player suggests another 'nerf' that applies to everyone because their playstyle is boring - which is essentially what this debate revolves around.
 
Give federal corvette more boom for my buck it. Reds more firepower

Agree! Side mediums should be large, front smalls should be medium and delete the useless under-nose large! This is supposed to be an apex warship, it has no business with those piddly little hardpoints!!!
 
But is it trolling only because I am pointing out the essential flaw in the suggestion?

PvP players build ships to fight against other players - good for a quick 'bang' but not a lot else - so gravitate to maximum defense / offense possible (even if you do fly a Fed brick by choice) and then complain it isn't fun because everyone else interested in PvP is building to survive too. Of course it is going to take an age to pop / reach agreed percentages if the players skills are approxomately equal.

So the PvP player suggests another 'nerf' that applies to everyone because their playstyle is boring - which is essentially what this debate revolves around.
A nerf which you don't even notice. It. Does. Not. Matter. If. Your. PvE Vette. Has. Only. 2k mj shields.
Seriously. Especially not if you're never ever ever touch open at all or block everything that remotely looks like a ganker.
 
A nerf which you don't even notice. It. Does. No. Matter. If. Your. PvE Vette. Has. Only. 2k mj shields.
Seriously. Especially not if you're never ever ever touch open at all or block everything that remotely looks like a ganker.
Disingenious there, I'd suggest.

I do take a 3.5MJ Corvette into PvE and have to retreat often enough... You do know me, you have flown with me, and my combat skills do not approach your own - by a large margin - and are unlikely to improve to your level before the game, or me, dies.

Yet you insist that as a PvE player I'd not notice a minimum of 30% reduction in my shields? Or if I did, "Well, tough luck, Old Chap, PvP players want quicker kills... "

It is rare for me to disagree with you, but your response was not an honest one - biased toward the higher skill levels found among players.
 
NO! The Fed'Vette is already OP as frack, with mamba type agility, class 8 distro and powerplant and 2x C4 hardpoints and convergence to die for, I mean you can drive a corvett between the outer hardpoints on a clipper or a cutter.
It really is not good for wing PVP. Slow speed, 2 useless small HPs with no pen, relatively slow maneuverability in comparison to FDL that does not make up for its speed loss. In a 1v1, it is one of the most powerful, but in a wing fight, they are useless.
Therein lies your answer, gimp the HD blueprint, not the stacking.

Why should other builds be gimped to nix edge case PvP metas? Look at it another way, PvE meta is resistance based mods on genny and boosters, my Vette the INV "Andominous" only has around 18mj of absolute shields, so if you come at me with your 1200 absolute DPS Annie, my shields are gone in 2 seconds and my armour will be eviscerated in a similar time frame.
They aren't, I simply ask for getting rid of HD blueprint stacking. Not stacking of resists or regular booster stacking at all.
I used the 1500 DPS annie as an example of why a Cutter is absolutely insane. Same with the Corvette. Listen: A 1500 DPS anaconda has to take 8 WHOLE minutes of overheating (Thermal conduit +60% damage) to drop the shields of a cutter or corvette.
 
I do take a 3.5MJ Corvette into PvE and have to retreat often enough... You do know me, you have flown with me, and my combat skills do not approach your own - by a large margin - and are unlikely to improve to your level before the game, or me, dies.

Yet you insist that as a PvE player I'd not notice a minimum of 30% reduction in my shields? Or if I did, "Well, tough luck, Old Chap, PvP players want quicker kills... "
I mean using 4 HD boosters and the rest resistance focused (or other utilities) is still pretty much untouchable for npcs. A corvette should have to retreat for a small time after 3-4 minutes of continuous fire from an NPC.
 
Agree! Side mediums should be large, front smalls should be medium and delete the useless under-nose large! This is supposed to be an apex warship, it has no business with those piddly little hardpoints!!!
Run to Frack with that for an idea - the vette might be down on firepower from where you want it to be, but it has about the highest DPS of any ship and boost turns QUICKER than a mamba:

My 'Vette PvE CZ build:
Similarly specced Mamba:

Vette boost turn pitches at 50 degrees per second vs the mamba's 52 degrees persecond, both sitting with 4 pips engines nd boost. So no, it doesn't need any more firepower, if your vette isn't sufficiently potent the problem may well be located between the throttle and the stick.
 
Disingenious there, I'd suggest.

I do take a 3.5MJ Corvette into PvE and have to retreat often enough... You do know me, you have flown with me, and my combat skills do not approach your own - by a large margin - and are unlikely to improve to your level before the game, or me, dies.

Yet you insist that as a PvE player I'd not notice a minimum of 30% reduction in my shields? Or if I did, "Well, tough luck, Old Chap, PvP players want quicker kills... "

It is rare for me to disagree with you, but your response was not an honest one - biased toward the higher skill levels found among players.
You're way underestimating yourself or overestimate me.
I never saw your Vette run in a CZ and against the cyclops you held your own admirably, while I was hindered by the heart bug.
Against piracy USS maybe, or wing massacre missions. Against those I have to run sometimes too.
But as said, they are wing content and not meant to solo by single CMDRs. Working as intended.
 
Threads like these are so disheartening... No matter what players will suggest, and how it will affect overall picture, there always will be a group of players that are happy with how things currently are and absolutely afraid of any possible changes to their builds and playstyles. And this is understandable, I guess.

This is the reason why we will never get any changes to combat and whatnot. FD simply won't go for large overhauls, angering certain pool of playerbase, regardless of what they do. I don't PVP, but for me combat is an absolute snoozefest. From what I gather, and have partial experience with - PVP is even worse snoozefest. And changes to shield/hull balance would improve things drastically, I believe, as it may introduce more build possibilities than current one and only.
 
You're way underestimating yourself or overestimate me.
I never saw your Vette run in a CZ and against the cyclops you held your own admirably, while I was hindered by the heart bug.
Against piracy USS maybe, or wing massacre missions. Against those I have to run sometimes too.
But as said, they are wing content and not meant to solo by single CMDRs. Working as intended.
You flatter me ;) (but that Cyclops kill was great fun!)

Yes, I'm taking wing missions much more these days as they are more challenging - but mostly in a wing of 2 - and the scale of difficulty exceeds that of even Spec Ops (for me) as they are challenging , but can be led away to be done unto - if I was winged with you and other Reapers it would be less of a challenge, I'm sure...

I only object because removing something "because them PvE players wouldn't notice..." is an observation made by players who are above average in combat and the game needs to cater for the average in challenge and utility, not the excellent.
 
You flatter me ;) (but that Cyclops kill was great fun!)

Yes, I'm taking wing missions much more these days as they are more challenging - but mostly in a wing of 2 - and the scale of difficulty exceeds that of even Spec Ops (for me) as they are challenging , but can be led away to be done unto - if I was winged with you and other Reapers it would be less of a challenge, I'm sure...

I only object because removing something "because them PvE players wouldn't notice..." is an observation made by players who are above average in combat and the game needs to cater for the average in challenge and utility, not the excellent.
The average player (with an un- or low engineered ship) has no place in a threat 9 USS or a wing assassination mission ;)
 
The average player (with an un- or low engineered ship) has no place in a threat 9 USS or a wing assassination mission ;)
I don't think I'd survive in a Threat 9 USS long enough to even take a Screenie!
(Thinking of my dropping into a Threat 8 in VR - with the original Rift - and reading the 8 as a zero :ROFLMAO: I didn't even get the chance to boost!)
 
It really is not good for wing PVP.
Not everything has to be geared towards PvP, PvP is just one of many, many facets of the game...
Slow speed, 2 useless small HPs with no pen,
Super Penetrator rail guns on the small nose hardpoints work really well.
...relatively slow maneuverability in comparison to FDL
In a 4 pips boost turn, it out pitches a mamba, which is an FDL alternative - see one of my earlier posts in this thread for coriolis builds to compare / comment on. Comparing anything to an FDL is tantamount to sacrilege as it is the platinum standard combat meta, has been since it got buffed in 2015/2016 to solve its heat and power issues.
that does not make up for its speed loss. In a 1v1, it is one of the most powerful, but in a wing fight, they are useless.
Not everything has to be focussed on wing PvP, Like I said, why nix the rest of the game to accommodate one edge case meta?
They aren't, I simply ask for getting rid of HD blueprint stacking. Not stacking of resists or regular booster stacking at all.
Unfocussed broad sweeping nerfs to stacking of boosters would render so many builds redundant, your opening post doesn't stipulate just HD boosters, or doesn't clearly enough differentiate this niche from the rest of the possible configurations of boosters stacked. If you are talking about a diminishing returns nerf that only applies to stacked HD boosters, but does not affect any other configuration, I could get behind that. But the odds of frontier giving you something as nuanced as that? Pretty negligible, they are known for their nerf sledge-hammer, rather than their laser-focussed-nerf-scalpel...
I used the 1500 DPS annie as an example of why a Cutter is absolutely insane. Same with the Corvette. Listen: A 1500 DPS anaconda has to take 8 WHOLE minutes of overheating (Thermal conduit +60% damage) to drop the shields of a cutter or corvette.
The shield nerf you propose was illustrated by a couple of edge case metas, an offensive and defensive build specifically. Booth good builds BTW, I've saved them both :) But the fact that such extreme builds are even possible shows how broken engineering really is.

I'm more of a PvE guy, and I sense you are more of a PvP guy, but if you want more players in open to PvP against, you need to factor in balancing PvE vs PvP, and that needs big picture thinking. Lets take the recent Fedneck civil war CG for example, I tool up a vette for flying a couple of CZ win's before docking and reloading, looking like this coriolis build:

In this hypothetical scenario, you interdict me enroute to a station or a CZ, in your PvP Alpha damage optimised build like your "corvette killer" Annie, it's already a one sided fight, but even were I in your "imperial gitgud" mega-shield cutter, you've got a 20% pitch rate advantadge on me, and in real money with the cutters wallowy drifty handling, the cutter is at a worse disadvantage than the raw numbers make out. But even were it just the 20% the coriolis builds numbers suggest, that's me spamming 4 pips boost turns, so it's not 4 pips to shields, meaning while I'm struggling to get a bead on you, you are wrecking my shields. Lets say I know my place and that is not as a fighter but as a gunnery platform, so tool up with the cutter with gimbals or turrets to compensate for its woeful flight characteristics, are you really telling me your alpha damage optimised build couldn't pack a chaff laucher or two?

I know what you mean about PvP fights taking far too long now, but the genie is out the bottle with the ridiculously overpowered weaons and defenses, if you neuter the defenses to reduce the TTK, then its highly likely you're only going to widen the gap between PvE loadouts and PvP ones. This gulf already puts a lot of PvE players into private group or solo, so if you widen the equipment gap, you will push more players into those modes, depriving yourself of organic PvP experiences, other than seal clubbing.
 
Threads like these are so disheartening... No matter what players will suggest, and how it will affect overall picture, there always will be a group of players that are happy with how things currently are and absolutely afraid of any possible changes to their builds and playstyles. And this is understandable, I guess.

This is the reason why we will never get any changes to combat and whatnot. FD simply won't go for large overhauls, angering certain pool of playerbase, regardless of what they do. I don't PVP, but for me combat is an absolute snoozefest. From what I gather, and have partial experience with - PVP is even worse snoozefest. And changes to shield/hull balance would improve things drastically, I believe, as it may introduce more build possibilities than current one and only.
That is disheartening and it's often the way around here. But I think the OP suggestion is really flawed. It boils down to: "make other people's ships easier to blow up".

I'm always being told that if I fly in Open I must accept the possibility of being attacked and build my ship accordingly. I described above that I've done exactly this, and it works. But now I'm being told, "No, you've built it too strong, we don't like it!"

We do things one way or the other. Either I protect myself by playing in Solo, blocking attackers or get given some new feature like a PvP flag, or I have the ability to build my ship too tough for attackers to blow up. ATM my chosen method for doing this involves good shields with plenty of boosters. I'm going to continue to want one or other of those choices; I'm not prepared to just fly around in Open and explode repeatedly for the entertainment of those who like explosions.
 
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and that was when there were still people around at frontier who knew that part of the design/code. nobody is going to touch that mess nowadays unless you point a gun at their head. :ROFLMAO:
... never mind, we have some new 'not spaghetti code' expansion due along real soon (and a few months later, with less bugs (haha) for you) which claims to be built to work with... Not that things are likely to get changed much, but we never know ;)

Of course, when there are players, like me, who will fight tooth and nail against random 'nerfs' just to make PvP 'more fun', hopefully common-sense will prevail when it comes to adjustments to gameplay! :devilish:
 
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