Shield concerns from a day 1 player

[Toval]

I feel as though players like me are not being represented, i'm very concerned about what these shield nerfs will do to the game, so let me shed some light on what will REALLY happen.

first, lets look at the cost investment of the big 3, i fly a combat conda every day, it costs over 600 MILLION credits.
an AVERAGE player would spend roughly 350 hours of grinding to achieve that level of money... for one ship. (we will not be discussing board hopping, yes it is an exploit, the devs said so multiple times)

now, the re-buy on my conda is around 30 Million credits, this means, in order to break even, i can lose my ship once every 15 hours of play time.... or for an average player, that's once every six days.

Enter the shield nerf...
a Viper, with an investment of lets say 300,000 credits, has a good chance at defeating an Anaconda, so Johnny new guy, with 3 hours into the game has enough firepower to take out someone with over 400 hours of game time, if he dies, so what it takes him 30 minutes to pay for his re-buy.

now, if Johnny sees how the big 3 are post nerf, will he strive to get one? Probably not.
now, the veteran players stopped playing because they were robbed of their time investment with this ridiculous nerf, and the new guy has no goal to work towards.

Gamers are goal driven people. if Johnny has no reason to keep playing (why get one of the big 3, they suck) than what will cause him to stick around?
the game will start dropping off because there is no goal to work towards for a majority of players, yes some people find other goals, but most players are after bigger, better, faster, harder, stronger.

So in short, from my point of view, this shield nerf will chase away the veterans, and remove the carrot at the end of the stick for everyone else.

The big three are the size of your average super carrier, they take a long time to get to, even longer to outfit, and weeks worth of play time to compensate a loss of one. THEY SHOULD BE STRONG AND POWERFUL!
If the bigger ships are supposed to be on a more equal footing with smaller vessels, make sure the price, and re-buy are also more equal with smaller vessels.

 

[Piercetech]

Hull tanky conda? Any ways there still python and some other ships. Plus he might not use it for combat he might explore or use it for trading.

 

[Faybs]

If someone on an anaconda with 400 hours game time gets destroyed by someone in a viper, then they've spent 399 of those hours on netflix. An anaconda with a moderately competent pilot should be able to tell they're outmatched, and wake out long before they lose their ship.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I feel as though players like me are not being represented, i'm very concerned about what these shield nerfs will do to the game, so let me shed some light on what will REALLY happen.

first, lets look at the cost investment of the big 3, i fly a combat conda every day, it costs over 600 MILLION credits.
an AVERAGE player would spend roughly 350 hours of grinding to achieve that level of money... for one ship. (we will not be discussing board hopping, yes it is an exploit, the devs said so multiple times)

now, the re-buy on my conda is around 30 Million credits, this means, in order to break even, i can lose my ship once every 15 hours of play time.... or for an average player, that's once every six days.

Enter the shield nerf...
a Viper, with an investment of lets say 300,000 credits, has a good chance at defeating an Anaconda, so Johnny new guy, with 3 hours into the game has enough firepower to take out someone with over 400 hours of game time, if he dies, so what it takes him 30 minutes to pay for his re-buy.

now, if Johnny sees how the big 3 are post nerf, will he strive to get one? Probably not.
now, the veteran players stopped playing because they were robbed of their time investment with this ridiculous nerf, and the new guy has no goal to work towards.

Gamers are goal driven people. if Johnny has no reason to keep playing (why get one of the big 3, they suck) than what will cause him to stick around?
the game will start dropping off because there is no goal to work towards for a majority of players, yes some people find other goals, but most players are after bigger, better, faster, harder, stronger.

So in short, from my point of view, this shield nerf will chase away the veterans, and remove the carrot at the end of the stick for everyone else.

The big three are the size of your average super carrier, they take a long time to get to, even longer to outfit, and weeks worth of play time to compensate a loss of one. THEY SHOULD BE STRONG AND POWERFUL!
If the bigger ships are supposed to be on a more equal footing with smaller vessels, make sure the price, and re-buy are also more equal with smaller vessels.

Dude, please educate yourself. A Viper has MUCH less chance of killing a big ship. Hull hardness makes small and medium weapons up to THREE times less efficient. As beta videos clearly show you can just sit their and let a viper shoot at you.
http://beta.coriolis.edcd.io/outfit...==.Aw19kA==..IwelBYQBhTIQwHbwMYHtEBN4jFfQA===

A Viper with two medium gimballs and two beam lasers needs over SEVEN MINUTES to destroy the hull of a STOCK anaconda. Thats seven minutes of the conda just sitting still. Small beam lasers do LESS than 1dp against the hull of a conda. Less than ONE dps. With HRP and MRP plus some mods that will be well over 45 minutes. Small beam lasers will do not even a fraction of one DPS. You simply have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. None whatsoever.

So please dont speak for 'veterans'.

 

[K-Rose]

Anaconda super carrier pilot here, run a turret fighter boat, love her to bits.

Shes going to be every bit as deadly & powerful after the shield balancing, her build isn't even anywhere close to "meta" as well.

Spend less time worrying aboit "nerfs", more time playing and enjoying this game

 

[Lobstris]

The big three are the size of your average super carrier, they take a long time to get to, even longer to outfit, and weeks worth of play time to compensate a loss of one. THEY SHOULD BE STRONG AND POWERFUL!
If the bigger ships are supposed to be on a more equal footing with smaller vessels, make sure the price, and re-buy are also more equal with smaller vessels.

I actually agree with this last bit. I'd love to see the prices, and capabilities of the ships brought more in line with the previous games. (Aside from the 'fill a big ship with shields and ram everything to death exploit' from Frontier/FFE). Small combat ships. Big lumbering traders. Mid range 'jack-of-all-trades' worked, and was more interesting than 'meta-du-jour'.

I still really want the shields and boosters on big ships nerfed though. A big ship should be a prized possession, but it shouldn't make you God, and, as someone said on another thread 'if you are constantly driving Lamborghinis off cliffs, maybe you should stop buying Lamborghinis?

 

[Alex Brentnall]

My tank ship (Corvette) lost maybe 10-15% of it's shields between 2.2 live to 2.3 beta. I have 2x resistance boosters and 3x heavy duty mod purely because I need 2x heat sinks for the SCBs and stuff.

Sure it's a significant loss in strength I agree but it's hardly turned my ship into a weak ship, as tested in beta I can still engage and disengage anything at will. The only thing that makes me sit up straight is the police as they can rapidly call backup and turn you into a 8 vs 1 in no time at all.



I would sit in a 4 pip to system situation and let you pick any weapons engineered or otherwise in your Viper III and give you 2 minutes to do all you want. <- Edit call it 5, lets be generous.

Engineered sure a Viper done right can use the shield breaking torpedoes and then start hull damage but even then you've just wasted most of your weapon power and my hull+armour will be more than enough to hold off even if you have frag cannons or whatever. 4x Beam lasers engineered may work to get rid of my shields in under that time but again armour applies.

Hit me up, after 2.3 releases and we can do the test if you like

 

[Midian27]

Wow, the hyperbole in this thread is strong...

 

[Deleted member 115407]

And then there's Johnny old guy, with thousands of hours in game and a billion credits, who still flies around in Viper IIIs and IVs.

You would literally have to kill me thousands and thousands of times.

At Bill Turner, tuning up my PAs as we speak

 

[Andovar]

a Viper, with an investment of lets say 300,000 credits, has a good chance at defeating an Anaconda, so Johnny new guy, with 3 hours into the game has enough firepower to take out someone with over 400 hours of game time, if he dies, so what it takes him 30 minutes to pay for his re-buy.

Seriously?
I'm sorry, but I just couldn't read any further. This is rubbish.

 

[Aekero]

op, your numbers are inflated, and to say that someone who has a conda that can't make way more money than that _without_ exploits would indicate they maybe shouldn't be flying a conda in the first place. Now, if you say you want to bounty hunt only and maybe the credits from that come out to 1-2 million an hour, fine, but again that's your choice not to make more money.

Also, if Johnny new guy is taking out an experienced anaconda, he's either awesome or anaconda pilot is terrible, and it shouldn't be dependent on whether or not your resist-buffed anaconda has 4k or 2k "base" mj when a couple of class 6scbs and full pips to shields still gives an anaconda an effective mj total of something like 35k. Again if you're in a 600million anaconda I'm assuming you have some scbs. Now pretend you actually have some armor (military grade based on the price of your anaconda) and some hrps and mrps, you'll probably be able to get away if you somehow get to that point, easily, from a viper. Also, slf with an elite pilot...also, remember now that small ships do less damage to big ships.

Basically what I'm saying is that situation shouldn't happen, and if it does you should legitimately be able to farm that much money every 3 hours. edit: I'll say 4 hours to be extra safe

 

[Thetele]

Please go to beta and do couple test flies and then you would know what you are talking about. This is not nerf to big ships its huge buff for them. Small/medium ships will be pretty much useless after 2.3 drops. Currently in beta after you lose shields at cz you can literally go to bathroom and come back and then leave to super cruise. Anaconda, corvette and cutter are pretty much immune to ships smaller than them. I would only call it a problem if you want to be afk for more than 10 minutes while your shields are down.

 

[Morbad]

I read the OP and had a flashback of the episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia where Charlie Kelly explains where stars come from:

[video=youtube;qn0uYtCScsw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn0uYtCScsw[/video]

 

[Ian Skippy]

op, your numbers are inflated, and to say that someone who has a conda that can't make way more money than that _without_ exploits would indicate they maybe shouldn't be flying a conda in the first place. Now, if you say you want to bounty hunt only and maybe the credits from that come out to 1-2 million an hour, fine, but again that's your choice not to make more money.

Also, if Johnny new guy is taking out an experienced anaconda, he's either awesome or anaconda pilot is terrible, and it shouldn't be dependent on whether or not your resist-buffed anaconda has 4k or 2k "base" mj when a couple of class 6scbs and full pips to shields still gives an anaconda an effective mj total of something like 35k. Again if you're in a 600million anaconda I'm assuming you have some scbs. Now pretend you actually have some armor (military grade based on the price of your anaconda) and some hrps and mrps, you'll probably be able to get away if you somehow get to that point, easily, from a viper. Also, slf with an elite pilot...also, remember now that small ships do less damage to big ships.

Basically what I'm saying is that situation shouldn't happen, and if it does you should legitimately be able to farm that much money every 3 hours. edit: I'll say 4 hours to be extra safe

Oh brother, its way, way funnier than that:

Lets take this test conda for the OP. Lets assume he has military plating, and three 5D HRP with hohum G5 heavy duty mods (+50% hull, +10% resistence each). Lets also assume our veteran OP forgot to bring a shield generator.
http://beta.coriolis.edcd.io/outfit...EweloBhBmUEY4BYQFMCGBzANikI4SFA=&bn=testconda

Now lets suppose he meets an Eagle. Not just any Eagle, an Eagle with a-rated PD, perfect aim and every shot within fall-off range. Just for the sake of argument. I'll give a few possible weapon choices and how long it will take the NPC to kill the hull of our example conda. Just for fun.

1) three railguns: 4 minutes and 02 seconds. Alas, not enough ammo in practice.
2) three cannons: 13 minutes, 06 seconds. Alas, not enough ammo in practice.
3) three fixed MC: 28 minutes and 29 seconds. Alas, not enough ammo in practice.

So that wont work, and there are no c1 PA. Alright, lasers maybe? At least you wont run out of ammo:

4) Three beams: 279 minutes and 52 seconds
5) Three bursts: 58 minutes and 46 seconds
6) Three pulses: 61 minutes and 56 seconds

I think our veteran OP will survive.

 

[Phazon Xenomorph]

My tank ship (Corvette) lost maybe 10-15% of it's shields between 2.2 live to 2.3 beta. I have 2x resistance boosters and 3x heavy duty mod purely because I need 2x heat sinks for the SCBs and stuff.

Sure it's a significant loss in strength I agree but it's hardly turned my ship into a weak ship, as tested in beta I can still engage and disengage anything at will. The only thing that makes me sit up straight is the police as they can rapidly call backup and turn you into a 8 vs 1 in no time at all.



I would sit in a 4 pip to system situation and let you pick any weapons engineered or otherwise in your Viper III and give you 2 minutes to do all you want. <- Edit call it 5, lets be generous.

Engineered sure a Viper done right can use the shield breaking torpedoes and then start hull damage but even then you've just wasted most of your weapon power and my hull+armour will be more than enough to hold off even if you have frag cannons or whatever. 4x Beam lasers engineered may work to get rid of my shields in under that time but again armour applies.

Hit me up, after 2.3 releases and we can do the test if you like

He could synth some ammo after his first torpedo salvo that takes your shields down.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Oh brother, its way, way funnier than that:

Lets take this test conda for the OP. Lets assume he has military plating, and three 5D HRP with hohum G5 heavy duty mods (+50% hull, +10% resistence each). Lets also assume our veteran OP forgot to bring a shield generator.
http://beta.coriolis.edcd.io/outfit...EweloBhBmUEY4BYQFMCGBzANikI4SFA=&bn=testconda

Now lets suppose he meets an Eagle. Not just any Eagle, an Eagle with a-rated PD, perfect aim and every shot within fall-off range. Just for the sake of argument. I'll give a few possible weapon choices and how long it will take the NPC to kill the hull of our example conda. Just for fun.

1) three railguns: 4 minutes and 02 seconds. Alas, not enough ammo in practice.
2) three cannons: 13 minutes, 06 seconds. Alas, not enough ammo in practice.
3) three fixed MC: 28 minutes and 29 seconds. Alas, not enough ammo in practice.

So that wont work, and there are no c1 PA. Alright, lasers maybe? At least you wont run out of ammo:

4) Three beams: 279 minutes and 52 seconds
5) Three bursts: 58 minutes and 46 seconds
6) Three pulses: 61 minutes and 56 seconds

I think our veteran OP will survive.

What about a Viper with C2 Efficient PAs?

 

[Alex Brentnall]

He could synth some ammo after his first torpedo salvo that takes your shields down.

Eh, he said 3 hours in game. I was being generous with the engineered weapons tbh. I get it though yeah

Still unless he had maybe 10-20 synthesis boosts I think I could probably tank that... maybe... Theres always a meta that beats you but usually it takes a decent time to get there

Non-engineered my Vette gets 2405 armour. Engineered I expect it to be at least double that plus tons of resistance. Even a torpedo with 120 DPS and 100% perfect hit ratio will have to get at least 5 hits perfectly on the powerplant..
If it were to be done on hull damage they'd probably need about 200 torpedoes...

Anyone in beta wanna test, i'm curious now what small ship can take down my Vette?

Edit: What he said below

 

[Morbad]

Can't synthesize torpedoes anyway.

 

[Ian Skippy]

What about a Viper with C2 Efficient PAs?

With perfect (non-secondary) -40% PD draw on both 3:22 of sitting still and taking it. If the hypothetical conda had a 7A shield gen with thermal resistence (+50%, non optimal roll), three heavy duty boosters (hypothetically because not understanding the change) and a single c6 c-rated SCB you can add another 6:30 for a total of almost 10 minutes of sitting still. If we create a wing of four of these vipers, you can still go and take a bathroom break, casually walk back and jump away. In practice 2.3b allows for WAY better shields which simply wont drop to any Viper, save maybe for torps on the c2, leaving you with two c1 weapons to tickle the hull.

The OP is simply wrong.

 

[gooddoc]

I have in my fleet all the big three, all modded, all with Shield Boosters & Hull Reinforcements.

In my opinion these are biggest ships currently available & should be difficult to fight in battle.

Im more concerned that

1) What's the point now of engineer's - you are now going to mod your ships only for FD to say 'no, no! too powerful & 'god-like' we're gonna nerf them now'.

2) In the near future FD will be releasing new & even more powerful ships (we hope! - though Im more likely now to say so what!). Are they still expecting players to work for credits to buy & mod these new ships only to see these nerfed months after these are launched.

Leave them be! Big ships are big ships for a reason, tough to crack in battle.