Shield concerns from a day 1 player

[Alex Brentnall]

I have in my fleet all the big three, all modded, all with Shield Boosters & Hull Reinforcements.

In my opinion these are biggest ships currently available & should be difficult to fight in battle.

Im more concerned that

1) What's the point now of engineer's - you are now going to mod your ships only for FD to say 'no, no! too powerful & 'god-like' we're gonna nerf them now'.

2) In the near future FD will be releasing new & even more powerful ships (we hope! - though Im more likely now to say so what!). Are they still expecting players to work for credits to buy & mod these new ships only to see these nerfed months after these are launched.

Leave them be! Big ships are big ships for a reason, tough to crack in battle.

I could use the same arguement for heat weapons:
I spent weeks getting the powerplay rank for the pack hound missiles, I spent hours engineering them for thermal cascade. What's the point if FD are going to nerf them into oblivion. They should be all powerful and insta-kill anything I come across since I spent so long getting them...

In short balance is balance. We argue all the time for buffs, to take a current example the beluga and orca. We can hardly complain when a few go the other way.



It's not like they are suddenly glass cannons or anything. Actually their armour rating has significantly increased in 2.3 to make them much more durable including internal modules (although still susceptible to sniping). All in all I don't feel any less protected in 2.3 than I do in 2.2. I still carry cargo in Haz Res. Multicrew PVE just makes you so overpowered it doesn't matter anymore if you fly a Corvette or a T9.

Seriously, try it in beta if you have beta. I have and it's really not anywhere near the nerf people are implying it is. With the armour buffs I bet the overall damage the ship can withstand is probably about the same, definitely not any change greater than 10% either way.


Edit: My last post here, not going to repeat myself over and over, I've said what I wanted to, hopefully the 3/4 posts I put were useful to some people.

 

[space voyager]

I don't even have a Anaconda but I can already say that the goal the thread speaks about does not exist ATM. The goal is usually getting to a new level of gameplay and after a 100 hours you've probably seen it all. So you either find your place in the existing universe or you quit playing, no matter the ship you're flying.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I could use the same arguement for heat weapons:
I spent weeks getting the powerplay rank for the pack hound missiles, I spent hours engineering them for thermal cascade. What's the point if FD are going to nerf them into oblivion. They should be all powerful and insta-kill anything I come across since I spent so long getting them...

In short balance is balance. We argue all the time for buffs, to take a current example the beluga and orca. We can hardly complain when a few go the other way.



It's not like they are suddenly glass cannons or anything. Actually their armour rating has significantly increased in 2.3 to make them much more durable including internal modules (although still susceptible to sniping). All in all I don't feel any less protected in 2.3 than I do in 2.2. I still carry cargo in Haz Res. Multicrew PVE just makes you so overpowered it doesn't matter anymore if you fly a Corvette or a T9.

Seriously, try it in beta if you have beta. I have and it's really not anywhere near the nerf people are implying it is. With the armour buffs I bet the overall damage the ship can withstand is probably about the same, definitely not any change greater than 10% either way.


Edit: My last post here, not going to repeat myself over and over, I've said what I wanted to, hopefully the 3/4 posts I put were useful to some people.

Heck, if anything its a small ships nerf. My Viper can MC through a conda but when 2.3 hits that will be impossible. Only way to kill big ships in PvE while flying a small ship will be with a dedicated bear hunter outfit and module sniping.

Which is fine by me, I dont really enjoy wiping huge ships out. Took on a master conda in my lightweight viper today (505m/s without boost!): killed it without module targeting and only lost 14% hull (from a total of 599). Thats not gonna fly in 2.3 anymore.

 

[tiddymun]

To Original poster..

If you feel threatned in this way, I guess you have two or three options..
one - fly a cheaper ship you can afford the time for the rebuy for.
two - don't ing worry about rebuy!!!! Every pvp encounter you have is FUN and you LEARN how to be a good pilot... So fly what you can feel happy about wasting the rebuy...

three - Play in Solo / private group. And miss out on any sort of adrenaline. Eventually you will have 20 billion credits, all engineers at grade 5, be able to sit in a combat zone with 8 turrets on your stationary anaconda raking in 100 kills an hour and never dieing - and yet internally, you have died already - as ITS bloomin dull to be like that...

So, buy yourself a viper and go kill some anacondas - it might be more difficult than you think

 

[Comrade Napoleon]

Multicrew PVE just makes you so overpowered it doesn't matter anymore if you fly a Corvette or a T9.

That is true, I have tried that, add to it a Dangerous fighter NPC and you can basically watch NetFlix. On the ordinary server I had a dis connect, while in combat in a High Rez, I managed to return 7 minuttes later, Conda was there, it had lost 2 rings, everything was quit, jock was there guarding... She had made 15 % on her master rank in the meantime.

Big ship owners need not fear anything, but their own incompetence or drunkenness or both
I mainly fear the middle option.

Cheers Cmdr's

 

[Cupsuki]

Well I think is safe to say that if you get killed by a guy in a viper on your then it's pretty clear he is way better than you.

Also there was this time called Pre Engineers in which you didn't needed 4000Mj of shields to survive

 

[Frenotx]

It is not easy to kill a maxed out big 3 using a viper. It takes a very good build, very good engineering, and a big skill advantage over the big 3 pilot. The only player-flown anaconda "Johnny new guy" will be taking out is one that's poorly built, and even more poorly flown.

 

[Protein Carrot]

I think we all need 10 000 mj shields to survive against those mean sidewinders since if we give them an hour they may or may not be able to punch through our shields. It is very racist of FDev to force us to alter our playstyle and have over 10 apm.

Now if only we could ban all open play players.

 

[krylite]

I thought a main reason for the shield booster stacking nerf was to power down some of the ganker griefing. Like when a big griefer continues to smack a small player ship while ignoring local security ships.
Also didn't big ships get fighters and upcoming multicrew within the last year? Another motivation of FDev could be they want more activity in open and new PS4 players not to be discouraged too fast from open
or even the game by big ship griefing.

 

[Jukelo]

1) What's the point now of engineer's - you are now going to mod your ships only for FD to say 'no, no! too powerful & 'god-like' we're gonna nerf them now'.

Those are two points. The first half is quite obviously: the point of engineers is to improve your ship. Even after the nerf that will still be the case, the gains will be non-zero. The second half is a question of game balance. Regardless of how hard you worked for your mods if they go counter to what Frontier intends for the game, they're not going to leave them in that state forever. It's true of every element of the game, in virtually every game (even some F2P games where real money can be involved in progressing take the risk of reworking existing content for the sake of balance).

2) In the near future FD will be releasing new & even more powerful ships (we hope! - though Im more likely now to say so what!). Are they still expecting players to work for credits to buy & mod these new ships only to see these nerfed months after these are launched.

See above.

Leave them be! Big ships are big ships for a reason, tough to crack in battle.

They'll still be tough to crack.

 

[K-Rose]

1) What's the point now of engineer's - you are now going to mod your ships only for FD to say 'no, no! too powerful & 'god-like' we're gonna nerf them now'.

With this change literally the only thing I'm doing on my Anaconda is changing 2 shield boosters for an ECM & another PD...

It's hardly the end of the world, and I don't begrudge the engineering effort because I'm moving those 2 Shield Boosters onto another one of my ships.

I don't care about weapon balances because I like to change my weapons every so often anyway.

 

[RagingxPenguin]

Soon as a I read "Viper has a good chance of destroying the Anaconda" I stopped reading.

No. This shield nerf is fine. I look forward to it. Skill will once again matter.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

With perfect (non-secondary) -40% PD draw on both 3:22 of sitting still and taking it. If the hypothetical conda had a 7A shield gen with thermal resistence (+50%, non optimal roll), three heavy duty boosters (hypothetically because not understanding the change) and a single c6 c-rated SCB you can add another 6:30 for a total of almost 10 minutes of sitting still. If we create a wing of four of these vipers, you can still go and take a bathroom break, casually walk back and jump away. In practice 2.3b allows for WAY better shields which simply wont drop to any Viper, save maybe for torps on the c2, leaving you with two c1 weapons to tickle the hull.

The OP is simply wrong.

Nice. This is all assuming an engineered meta-build on the part of the conda. I wonder how it will affect NPCs... I would like to have something worth running away from occasionally, you see?

I keep thinking of it in terms of a humvee trying to take out an Abrams tank with a .50 cal.

I'm just engaging in the conversation for fun, and I agree with others here, BTW - no newb in a 300k Cr Viper is going to take out OP's Meta-Conda, unless of course OP is a terrible pilot.

Also, OP, your entire post is predicated on the idea that everyone is aspiring to fly the Big 3. I'm not. I do just fine in my small and medium builds.

 

[Gavin Burke]

Enter the shield nerf...
a Viper, with an investment of lets say 300,000 credits, has a good chance at defeating an Anaconda, so Johnny new guy, with 3 hours into the game has enough firepower to take out someone with over 400 hours of game time, if he dies, so what it takes him 30 minutes to pay for his re-buy.

Did you not notice the 66% and 33% nerf to C1 and C2 weapons against bigger ships then??? It means a viper will take twice as long to kill you now ....

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

Dude, please educate yourself. A Viper has MUCH less chance of killing a big ship. Hull hardness makes small and medium weapons up to THREE times less efficient. As beta videos clearly show you can just sit their and let a viper shoot at you.
http://beta.coriolis.edcd.io/outfit...==.Aw19kA==..IwelBYQBhTIQwHbwMYHtEBN4jFfQA===

A Viper with two medium gimballs and two beam lasers needs over SEVEN MINUTES to destroy the hull of a STOCK anaconda. Thats seven minutes of the conda just sitting still. Small beam lasers do LESS than 1dp against the hull of a conda. Less than ONE dps. With HRP and MRP plus some mods that will be well over 45 minutes. Small beam lasers will do not even a fraction of one DPS. You simply have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. None whatsoever.

So please dont speak for 'veterans'.

nice to see people berating new people, grate job should be ashamed with that reply

 

[PharmacyLove]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

 

[Armia]

the re-buy on my conda is around 30 Million credits, this means, in order to break even, i can lose my ship once every 15 hours of play time.... or for an average player, that's once every six days.

At least do some loop trading. I could make ~15 million an hour just by loop trading in a Conda if I manage to find a good route.

a Viper, with an investment of lets say 300,000 credits, has a good chance at defeating an Anaconda, so Johnny new guy, with 3 hours into the game has enough firepower to take out someone with over 400 hours of game time, if he dies, so what it takes him 30 minutes to pay for his re-buy.

You either have no idea what a combat Conda is, or the "Johnny New Guy" you're talking about is Han Solo.

now, the veteran players stopped playing because they were robbed of their time investment with this ridiculous nerf, and the new guy has no goal to work towards.

With only ~700 hours in game, I'm by no means a 'veteran', but I still play the game with no issues at all; even with the 'horrible' shield nerf in beta, I were still able to 100% enjoy the experience.

Gamers are goal driven people. if Johnny has no reason to keep playing (why get one of the big 3, they suck) than what will cause him to stick around?
the game will start dropping off because there is no goal to work towards for a majority of players, yes some people find other goals, but most players are after bigger, better, faster, harder, stronger.

Here you got some valid points; The game lacks some serious goals that I can chase after. Though I do not agree having god mode shields should be considered an end game goal.

Shield concerns from a day 1 player

Also, your thread title is a click bait.

 

[Jex =TE=]

So that wont work, and there are no c1 PA. Alright, lasers maybe? At least you wont run out of ammo:

4) Three beams: 279 minutes and 52 seconds
5) Three bursts: 58 minutes and 46 seconds
6) Three pulses: 61 minutes and 56 seconds

I think our veteran OP will survive.

ROFLMAO [haha][haha]

Can't rep you again but that's funny as hell.

 

[Crash1099]

I feel as though players like me are not being represented, i'm very concerned about what these shield nerfs will do to the game, so let me shed some light on what will REALLY happen.

first, lets look at the cost investment of the big 3, i fly a combat conda every day, it costs over 600 MILLION credits.
an AVERAGE player would spend roughly 350 hours of grinding to achieve that level of money... for one ship. (we will not be discussing board hopping, yes it is an exploit, the devs said so multiple times)

now, the re-buy on my conda is around 30 Million credits, this means, in order to break even, i can lose my ship once every 15 hours of play time.... or for an average player, that's once every six days.

Enter the shield nerf...
a Viper, with an investment of lets say 300,000 credits, has a good chance at defeating an Anaconda, so Johnny new guy, with 3 hours into the game has enough firepower to take out someone with over 400 hours of game time, if he dies, so what it takes him 30 minutes to pay for his re-buy.

now, if Johnny sees how the big 3 are post nerf, will he strive to get one? Probably not.
now, the veteran players stopped playing because they were robbed of their time investment with this ridiculous nerf, and the new guy has no goal to work towards.

Gamers are goal driven people. if Johnny has no reason to keep playing (why get one of the big 3, they suck) than what will cause him to stick around?
the game will start dropping off because there is no goal to work towards for a majority of players, yes some people find other goals, but most players are after bigger, better, faster, harder, stronger.

So in short, from my point of view, this shield nerf will chase away the veterans, and remove the carrot at the end of the stick for everyone else.

The big three are the size of your average super carrier, they take a long time to get to, even longer to outfit, and weeks worth of play time to compensate a loss of one. THEY SHOULD BE STRONG AND POWERFUL!
If the bigger ships are supposed to be on a more equal footing with smaller vessels, make sure the price, and re-buy are also more equal with smaller vessels.

My turret anaconda kills npc viper with no problems. It has gimbal pulse,cannons,missiles. So even if they nerf shields npc will still be easy. Pvp do not ask me since i do not do it that much.

 

[Snooch leBooch]

nice to see people berating new people, grate job should be ashamed with that reply

Reading the title again should help with placing some shame correctly