Ship Builds & Load Outs Type-10 Defender Shield module size and impact damage (Question)

GN_Abbude

GN_Abbude
Good morning, commanders.

I have a question regarding the shield generator's ability to withstand direct impact with other ships. (I’m trying to explain within the translator’s limits).

Does the size of the generator itself, assuming that everyone had the same amount of MJ, influence the amount of damage received on impact as opposed to the damage caused?

Example: the Type 10 receives a direct impact from an Imperial cutter at full speed, assuming that in all alternatives, both ships have prismatic shields with a specific amount of MJ, does the size of the generator influence the damage that each one receives?



Original:

Bom dia comandantes.

Eu tenho uma duvida referente a capacidade do gerador de escudo quanto a suportar impacto direto com outras naves. ( Vou tentando explicar dentro dos limites do tradutor).

O tamanho do gerador em sí, supondo que todos tivessem a mesma quantidade de MJ, influencia na quantidade de dano recebido no impacto em contraposição ao dano causado ?.

Exemplo: a Type 10 recebe um impacto direto de uma Imperial cutter a toda velocidade, supondo que em todas as alternativas, ambas as naves tenham escudos prismáticos com uma quantidade especifica de MJ, o tamanho do gerador influencia no dano que cada um recebe?
 

sinisalo

sinisalo
The only thing that matters for collision is raw MJ, the more the better. Shield generators also have an integrity rating which may factor in, but if so I don't know how much role it might play, if integrity acts as a modifier or more simply like a health pool. Therefore, I do not think a class 5 shield generator with 1000 MJ would be any different that a class 4 with 1000 MJ in terms of impact or collision protection

That said, as the owner of a ludicrous-speed battle-Courier, I have some anectdotal evidence to share. Because I fly this ship in combat a lot, and at very high speeds, always wide open, I have had a lot of collisions. And from this I have concluded that the main factor in collisions between two ships is the speed the 'other' ship is going. It seems to me, from experience, that if I am going very fast the damage is slight as long as the thing I hit is not going very fast. I have pinballed and cartwheeled off my wingmates while doing 800 m/s with nary a scratch. But if I collide with another ship who is travelling at high speed, regardless of how fast I am going, damage is much more severe.

Damage from collisions is always going to be from the sum of the forces between the two objects, or so we would expect. But it seems to me that in Elite, that the player's speed/mass is not weighted the same. It's more down to the force imparted by the thing you collide with. Not sure I am explaining it well, but that's what my experience has shown, or at least the conclusion I've drawn from it.
 
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bohemond

B
sinisalo said:
The only thing that matters for collision is raw MJ, the more the better. Shield generators also have an integrity rating which may factor in, but if so I don't know how much role it might play, if integrity acts as a modifier or more simply like a health pool. Therefore, I do not think a class 5 shield generator with 1000 MJ would be any different that a class 4 with 1000 MJ in terms of impact or collision protection

That said, as the owner of a ludicrous-speed battle-Courier, I have some anectdotal evidence to share. Because I fly this ship in combat a lot, and at very high speeds, always wide open, I have had a lot of collisions. And from this I have concluded that the main factor in collisions between two ships is the speed the 'other' ship is going. It seems to me, from experience, that if I am going very fast the damage is slight as long as the thing I hit is not going very fast. I have pinballed and cartwheeled off my wingmates while doing 800 m/s with nary a scratch. But if I collide with another ship who is travelling at high speed, regardless of how fast I am going, damage is much more severe.

Damage from collisions is always going to be from the sum of the forces between the two objects, or so we would expect. But it seems to me that in Elite, that the player's speed/mass is not weighted the same. It's more down to the force imparted by the thing you collide with. Not sure I am explaining it well, but that's what my experience has shown, or at least the conclusion I've drawn from it.
Click to expand...
Ah, D and his cartwheeling iCourier! Good times!!
 

sinisalo

sinisalo
Haha, it's your nose I bounced off of Bo. Not sure you even noticed I had done so :)

Vettes shrug that sort of stuff off
 

Maymo

Maymo
The class/size of the shield generator shouldn't matter.

Collisions deal 'absolute' damage to shields and hull. You can have a heavily resistant shield that can survive assaults from ships much greater than yourself but a collision will ignore these resistances and go straight for the mj.

You can increase your effective mj considerably by putting 4 pips to shields.
IMG_0047.PNG

Here's the absolute shield strength of a Viper4 with no pips in shields and again with 4 pips in shields...
IMG_0049.JPG

As you can see, the absolute shield resistance more than doubles with full pips to shields making your ship much stronger in the case of a collision.

Hull mass is also a big player.
I can bounce a Viper4 easily off planets and always do some ridiculous landings when in one just for fun...

But you can't act this way in a Dropship for example, even a slightly sloppy landing is enough to break its shields. You can also use this to your advantage as well, I've run plenty of small ships over in a Dropship, it does extreme impact damage if you can aim it.

The AspX is another ship that really suffers in any kind of collision, it's a recipe for disaster. Fast/weak shield/heavy/drifty.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Collision damage is absolute. Pips count, but no other resistances.

Collision damage is largely determined by closing velocity, angle, and relative masses of the objects. There may be some more factors as it's hard to see consistent damage in practice, but in general, the degree of relative momentum transfer (a much larger ship takes very little damage, but a smaller ship can take quite a bit more) is a pretty good indicator.

Thus, the size of the shield gen, in and of itself, or it's module integrity are irrelevant. A heavier shield gen will increase ship mass and make the collision damage split more favorable, but the same mass ships with the same pips in SYS and the same amount of raw MJ should be taking about the same amount of damage in a collision.
 

SENA-

SENA-
I can say, from the Vette perspective, ramming a Conda at 160 km/s will bring down the Conda shields by 2/3 or all... I do this a lot when I fight outnumbered and I need to kill them fast and is by far the most effective to drop shields on Conda.s fast. One of the ships who take huge damages when rammed is also the DS, who can just pop, if have low shields or no shields at all, when rammed by a Vette at full speed.
More, if you keep "pushing" after the ram, the damage seems to accumulate.
I can say the mass is a huge factor here.
 

Dragsham

Dragsham
Yes the corvettes ram is legend. I've built mine around armoured hull and high shields output. But installed the smallest pp I could and other weight saving changes to increase speed. Currently 370ms 4 pips which for ramming is a scream hehe. Yea I sacrificed for d rated this n that but she's purely pve so not an issue
 

badibeat

badibeat
GN_Abbude said:
I have a question regarding the shield generator's ability to withstand direct impact with other ships.
Click to expand...
sinisalo said:
The only thing that matters for collision is raw MJ, the more the better.
Click to expand...
... AND the resistance you get from having up to 4 Pips on the SYS capacitor which reduces the absorbed energy (MJ) for all damage types by up to 60% (to 0.4 times the original energy reduced from your shields).
Edit: Oops - missed Morbad's post, but the figure holds.
 
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badibeat

badibeat
Dragsham said:
Yes the corvettes ram is legend. I've built mine around armoured hull and high shields output. But installed the smallest pp I could and other weight saving changes to increase speed. Currently 370ms 4 pips which for ramming is a scream hehe. Yea I sacrificed for d rated this n that but she's purely pve so not an issue
Click to expand...
I am not yet good at ramming. But I can safely boost into Asteroids and Stations for a fast stop with both my Imperial Cutters and Federal Corvettes.
 
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