Is that like being on the observation cabin in a conda and turning?
Man they look so cool...the driver ends up uncoscious...
Ship Scale Problem
- Thread starter Decksmeck
- Start date
Is that like being on the observation cabin in a conda and turning?
Man they look so cool...the driver ends up uncoscious...
For those who pay attention to this stuff, it's fairly common for FDev to mention adjustments to the CoG of various ships in patch-notes.
Seems that FDev are aware that a ship should pitch/roll around the cockpit/bridge and that the thrusters need to operate in a way that allows this.
I guess they are rather going for mag boots, than changing the lore.
If I remember correctly in Reclamation the varying gravity in Coriolis is briefly mentioned. But I don't know if any of the math nerds over here did verify the game. Would be interesting, though.
Not sure you understood my post. Am talking about two different FBW machines with vastly different weight and size. Roll & pitch rates are very similar, this is because on the larger aircraft the control surfaces are also larger, the flight computers are also working behind the scene to achieve a certain roll/pitch/yaw rate. For that reason I don't find it strange that ships in ED can have fairly similar rates, thrusters replace control surfaces in ED, larger thrusters on larger ships, and the computers limit how the thrusters operate.
What is strange about Elite is that all ships have a extremely high pitch/yaw/roll rate for their size, this also gives the illusion of flying a much smaller craft (very noticeable in VR) The decision is purely down to gameplay reasons. As someone mentioned above, the lore behind it is that cmdrs are augmented with tech to survive the extreme forces. in reality it is done to make flying in ED more fun for the masses.
As far as humans in ED with amazing tolerances that can exceed 100g, Still doesn't explain transporting commodities and live stock, everything on the ship would be turned to mush....But it's just a game, don't think we are supposed to dwell on it too much
TLDR - We can boost into the wall at the back of station, with strong shields go from 900 m/s to 0 M/S in an instant. That pretty much sums up the level of realism
Last edited:
There was a bug report I made a while back, when trying to dock the SLF into an Anaconda while above a planets surface, the 'conda was doing some mental rolling: ...imagine being on that bridge!
Ah, yes. Mag boots.
I forgot about those.
As plausible and useful today as they were back when I first saw them in Captain Scarlet back in the early 1970s.
In VR, when I am looking up at my anaconda from within my SRV it looks massive. Slowly driving around my Sidey makes the Sidey look big too.
But yeah, when I sit on the bridge of my Anaconda, looking out at the nose, the nose doesn't look massive.
Not sure what is happening.
But yeah, when I sit on the bridge of my Anaconda, looking out at the nose, the nose doesn't look massive.
Not sure what is happening.
Blimey.
Makes me seasick to watch that.
Which, on a related note, is why I always prefer belowdecks quarters on big ships.
For me, you can keep all the fancy quarters up at the top, near the bridge.
They're not a nice place to be in high seas.
![[VR] scipio_77](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/62/62064.jpg?1621626354){kind=avatar}
Not sure you understood my post. Am talking about two different machines with vastly different weight and size. Roll & pitch rates are very similar, this is because on the larger aircraft the control surfaces are also larger, the flight computers are also working behind the scene to achieve a certain roll/pitch/yaw rate. For that reason I don't find it strange that ships in ED can have fairly similar rates, thrusters replace control surfaces in ED, larger thrusters on larger ships, and the computers limit how the thrusters operate.
What is strange about Elite is that all ships have a extremely high pitch/yaw/roll rate for their size, this also gives the illusion of flying a much smaller craft (very noticeable in VR) The decision is purely down to gameplay reasons. As someone mentioned above, the lore behind it is that cmdrs are augmented with tech to survive the extreme forces. in reality it is done to make flying in ED more fun for the masses.
As far as humans in ED with amazing tolerances that can exceed 100g, Still doesn't explain transporting commodities and live stock, everything on the ship would be turned to mush....But it's just a game, don't think we are supposed to dwell on it too much
Sure, I was just pointing out that we today have technology with structural qualities that would have been black magic 1200 years ago.
You have games like X3, which while it does not use a Newtonian universe, is much more inspired by huge naval ships for its larger vessels, gargantuan behemoths that fire huge broadsides of artillery or volleys of missiles. I don't see either game as more or less "fun for the masses". As long as you look at single-ship combat X3's battle model isn't less approachable than that of Elite. It's just a different vision.
And if it is realism we strive for, then I don't think either game is anywhere near close to correct. The difficult aspect of open space warfare would be to actually get to the engagement, which if we're going to use today's technology as a basis would be a gargantuan task. If we apply today's concepts of achievable spacefaring technology, the warfare would be have to be like the naval warfare of the 1600s-1800s... which almost invariably took place at chokeholds, sea regions where external factors (geography, wind, currents, demography, logistics / ports) pretty much required ships to be.
There was a good bit in The Expanse where Amos was on the outside of their ship when it started pulling moves, and he did a quick impression of a Wacky Waving Inflatable Tube man.Ah, yes. Mag boots.
I forgot about those.
As plausible and useful today as they were back when I first saw them in Captain Scarlet back in the early 1970s.
Off topic, my cabin on my last ship was probably the best, on the waterline, port-side inboard and not too far forward of midships. I think there must be a reason Chiefs get the best cabins...
I have noticed that too, the front section looks like it it shorter than it is. Which is particularly weird, because at least when sitting in cars with a large bonnet, they tend to seem longer than they actually are. With the Conda it is the other way round.
A ship in the water has esentially only one direction of thrust...forward, so they are designed so that they have maximum strength along the axis of the hull, a ship in space that can turn rapidly and has massive side thrusters will of course have internal structures designed to withstand forces from all directions, if they didn't I would have serious words with my engineers.
The weight doesn't really matter.
The federal corvette is 87m wide, let's assume you stand to the side at 40m from the center of mass.
The federal corvette can constantly roll at 83 degrees per second, which means that you have a sustained 9G of force when standing in that place. (acceleration = radius * (2pi/period)^2 ).
And if you remember that it takes less than a second to reach that speed of rotation, and take it that acceleration into account, you can reach a peak of 15G.
And a typical human loses consciousness in few seconds at around 5G of force.
So having a ship where you can have a sustained 9G would just be lethal...
Hence why I'm saying that big ships shouldn't rotate that fast, shouldn't be that agile, because outside of any technical questions, it would just be dangerous for its occupants.
It seems to me your crew was having a really good time.
Are you on time with the wages? Any particular reasons she might want to prank you?
Thanks for doing the maths, but I guess that even small ship in ED generate forces way above 5g easily. And what about "landing" at 200m/s? Anyone remember a similar scene from The Expanse? ;-)
Wait a sec everyone.
Talking about G-forces sorry but the deadly machine is not the ship itself but the ☠LANDING PAD!!! ☠
The L-495 in Moscow is the larges centrifuge in the world used to train astronauts. The centrifuge has an arm of 18 meters and turning rate of 13°/s. This generates a centrifugal acceleration of 8G on a 80 kg person.
The large landing pad turns a Beluga by 180° in 4 seconds and the Beluga is 200 m long.
The angular speed is 0.785 rad/s.
The rotation arm is 90 m (the pilot does not sit on the tip nose).
Fc= radius x angular speed^2 x body mass (80kg)
The math gives the deadly:
452 G !!! ☠
Talking about G-forces sorry but the deadly machine is not the ship itself but the ☠LANDING PAD!!! ☠
The L-495 in Moscow is the larges centrifuge in the world used to train astronauts. The centrifuge has an arm of 18 meters and turning rate of 13°/s. This generates a centrifugal acceleration of 8G on a 80 kg person.
The large landing pad turns a Beluga by 180° in 4 seconds and the Beluga is 200 m long.
The angular speed is 0.785 rad/s.
The rotation arm is 90 m (the pilot does not sit on the tip nose).
Fc= radius x angular speed^2 x body mass (80kg)
The math gives the deadly:
452 G !!! ☠
Last edited:
Which is why we use technology to alleviate the problem. Seating and suits designed to make sure the blood flows and behaves in a way that delivers oxygen to your brain. This technology is also being actively developed these days and is evolving, for example by exploiting fluid mechanics to improve on anti-g suits.
In the context of this discussion you probably see why that is a very important point.
Now I’m not saying she was smashed out of her gourd on Leestian Evil Juice at the time, but I will leave that insinuation there
When I was capturing the footage there were times when the mothership would settle down at a funny angle, then just as I was about to dock it’d do a quick rotate out of the way. Proper flicking pish at me, it was!
This is why I purposefully undersize the thrusters on my Conda (and usually have zero pips to them when in combat), using FA-off drift and spin in combat, which helps the Conda feel like the big ship it is. This is also why I actually like "drift ships" like the Dropship and Cutter, and avoid impossible ships like the Corvette with G5 thrusters. I just wish top speed wasn't directly tied to roll / yaw / pitch / acceleration, as these larger ships should be able to go faster in a straight line.