Ship Scale, why is it so hard to believe how massive they are?

[fus roh potato]

Because flight model.

Some of the most trained pilots can maintain consciousness briefly at 8g's. I even have a friend once in Vietnam peg his F-4 at 10g's before nearly smashing into a mountain. He blacked out just before passing the mountain but came back ok. It's understood that someone with basic training can withstand 3g's of continuous force, this is in fact what astronauts feel during a shuttle launch.

But if we look at what ships can do in Elite, it's extreme. Here are some basic equations:

• w=v/r The angular rate (in radians, pi=180deg) equals velocity (m/s) divided by radius.
• a=v^2/r Centripetal acceleration is the velocity squared divided by the radius.
• a=vw Substitute /r with w/v

Now I was just in my Eagle which has 77deg/s (1.3 rad/s) pitch rate. During pitch in the blue zone, it experiences no bleed and travels at 200m/s. If I plug those numbers into the equations above, I find that my Eagle can sustain 26g's in a continuous loop.

You can do this for any ship that has enough vertical thrust to negate drift. Have a ship that can maintain 100m/s with a 35deg/s pitch rate? That's 6.2g for an Anaconda.

How long does it take a ship that can reach 500 m/s to burn to that speed from zero? 3s? There you can use v=at. 500/3/9.8 is 17g's.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

It's a game, not a simulation.

 

[SuwinTzi]

And because of that mentality, all the ships essentially fly the same. It gets into weird levels when a ship like the conda can turn just as fast as a small ship that's supposed to be more maneuverable, with no penalty, by using RNGineered drives.

 

[Cupsuki]

I do agree I really think there's something wrong in game especially on ships like the conda and vette since their noses seem too small from the cockpit

 

[Cliché]

Fwiw, if you look at some of the kickstarter vids, you see Vipers flying circles around Condas, but they decided to go in a different direction. At least the capitol ships can't turn like that.

 

[Marc JX8P]

I suppose it all depends how 'realistic' you want it. It doesn't seem to far fetched to assume that in a universe that has faster than light travel technology there is also something like a Star Trek inertial dampening and structural integrity field. In terms of visuals: it's really hard to determine scale in space because you lack the normal atmospheric clues (colours become muted the farther something is, there is atmospheric haze and things like that).

 

[Ren Garris]

In a way, I kinda wish there was some sort of feedback when doing high G moves.

But I could have sworn I experienced some 'grey out' while on a 1G planet in my RNG'd Eagle.

I wouldnt want a totally realistic model, but some type of feedback would be cool. Just a little.

 

[STARFIRE REVMEUP]

I suppose it all depends how 'realistic' you want it. It doesn't seem to far fetched to assume that in a universe that has faster than light travel technology there is also something like a Star Trek inertial dampening and structural integrity field. In terms of visuals: it's really hard to determine scale in space because you lack the normal atmospheric clues (colours become muted the farther something is, there is atmospheric haze and things like that).

Spot on, on the inertial dampening technology and pretty much ends the speed question. Classic in sci-fiction. Elite has hyperspace as well as warp drive.
Scale is accurate, ive check the ships often on some of the planetary bases that have floors on the buildings.

Often the ships look odd for scale because some of the windows are oversized giving the illusion of a smaller craft.

- - - Updated - - -

They could easily overcome the window Illusion by adding a few rows of windows that they have on the buildings to give a frame of reference.

 

[maxpayne]

Because there is no space leg.

 

[Sapyx]

In the previous games, which used a purely Newtonian flight model, acceleration was the defining factor of spaceships, not an arbitrary "top speed". And in those games, ships had astonishing acceleration rates. And, according to the game manuals, your calculations are correct: the main thrusters of the Eagle MkII can pull 28 G, the Cobra III can pull 20 G, and the Anaconda 6 G. The smallest fighter, the old Falcon, could pull 30 G.

This was explained away in-game by stating that pilots on these ships don't just sit in chairs, they lie down in gel-filled acceleration baths specifically designed to keep a pilot conscious; this plus possible genetic engineering of pilots to withstand sustained high Gs, meant that you never blacked out or suffered any ill effects, even while flying at maximum acceleration for a few weeks. This explanation is, of course, not possible in ED.

 

[Laste]

I suppose it all depends how 'realistic' you want it. It doesn't seem to far fetched to assume that in a universe that has faster than light travel technology there is also something like a Star Trek inertial dampening and structural integrity field. In terms of visuals: it's really hard to determine scale in space because you lack the normal atmospheric clues (colours become muted the farther something is, there is atmospheric haze and things like that).

I guess without these we'd be a smear on the seat every time we jumped, and a splat on the windscreen every time we came out.

 

[Pville_Piper]

it's a GAME... [rolleyes]

 

[h347h]

Get VR. End of conversation.

 

[Mendaharin Tusca]

h347h has a good point there, the scale really gets different inside VR.
Also a reason why I want "spacelegs" if we could walk/float around our ships and maybe even exit on foot and walk around them they would not only feel more real... it would help us mentally process the size.

 

[Laste]

it's a GAME... [rolleyes]

It's a DISCUSSION.....

 

[BACKER #-4112]

• w=v/r The angular rate (in radians, pi=180deg) equals velocity (m/s) divided by radius.
• a=v^2/r Centripetal acceleration is the velocity squared divided by the radius.
• a=vw Substitute /r with w/v

I'm trying to play a game here, no double check someone's maths homework...

 

[Frenotx]

Fwiw, if you look at some of the kickstarter vids, you see Vipers flying circles around Condas, but they decided to go in a different direction. At least the capitol ships can't turn like that.

Who knows? Maybe they can. We've, as far as I know, never seen them turn at all.

 

[TuxedoSteve]

Who knows? Maybe they can. We've, as far as I know, never seen them turn at all.

They're actually the most agile ships in the game.

 

[5AnaHalfHatsize]

In the previous games, which used a purely Newtonian flight model, acceleration was the defining factor of spaceships, not an arbitrary "top speed". And in those games, ships had astonishing acceleration rates. And, according to the game manuals, your calculations are correct: the main thrusters of the Eagle MkII can pull 28 G, the Cobra III can pull 20 G, and the Anaconda 6 G. The smallest fighter, the old Falcon, could pull 30 G.

This was explained away in-game by stating that pilots on these ships don't just sit in chairs, they lie down in gel-filled acceleration baths specifically designed to keep a pilot conscious; this plus possible genetic engineering of pilots to withstand sustained high Gs, meant that you never blacked out or suffered any ill effects, even while flying at maximum acceleration for a few weeks. This explanation is, of course, not possible in ED.

Yeah, it didn't really work for the original games either (apart - maybe - for the genetic engineering), when you consider the whole "3 phases to a car crash" thing:

1: When the car stops
2: When you stop
3: When you're internal organs stop

.... And it's the third one that will kill you.

 

[Frenotx]

I think once we can walk around in the ships, it will be much easier to appreciate how big they are. You'll still have stuff like this throwing you off, but the memories of that time you got lost in your anaconda on your way to the SRV hanger should help.