Ship to learn FAoff combat with fixed weapons?

[Riverside]

I also use the T16k, and i an thinking about adding curves (too lazy so far). But i have more issues with small twitchy target than with controlling a twitchy ship. Killing an Eagle with FAoff&fixed in any ship seems to be extremely hard, simply because the target is so small and moves fast. Maybe i switch the small fixed beams to seeker missiles, but that would be agains my idea of maximal challenge.

I find fixed hitscan weapons excellent for sniping from a distance, the small gimbal effect helps massively. A small, manoeuvrable target up close will always be harder to hit regardless of your weapons.

Seeker missiles (and lots of other weapons) are more effective than a fixed beam & FA-off, but do you want to be an effective farmer or to master a challenging craft?

Once you can hit stuff reliably FA-off with a beam, move on from there imo.

 

[Knightshark]

Once you can hit stuff reliably FA-off with a beam, move on from there imo.

That's the plan!

 

[Aris_]

I also use the T16k, and i an thinking about adding curves (too lazy so far). But i have more issues with small twitchy target than with controlling a twitchy ship. Killing an Eagle with FAoff&fixed in any ship seems to be extremely hard, simply because the target is so small and moves fast. Maybe i switch the small fixed beams to seeker missiles, but that would be agains my idea of maximal challenge.

the precision required for sniping subsystems in a maneuvering small ship npc is extremely hard to achieved with a joy especially while fighting faoff keep that in mind is not an accident that most snipers in hit scans are mouse users

 

[Knightshark]

the precision required for sniping subsystems in a maneuvering small ship npc is extremely hard to achieved with a joy especially while fighting faoff keep that in mind is not an accident that most snipers in hit scans are mouse users

Shouldn't the small gimbal of fixed weapons help to hit a particular module?
And luckily you rather snipe modules of large (easy to hit) ships than twitchy eagles that go pop in a few seconds _if_ hit.

I am aware that mouse is better for FAoff combat, but imo the hotas/pedal solution is much more fun.

 

[Sup3rfluiD]

Most of the people I have coached through FOF training benefitted from initially separating the two skills.

As 777driver advised, non combat flight around fixed in game structure is the best training course and often the vulture is found to be the best training craft due to its ancillary thruster power.

Then when you can hit where you like on fixed structure move to a nav beacon/rez and start tagging hits.
Often the biggest consideration is which type of trigger delay profile best suits your lag or lead persuit habbits.

I like plasmas because even though the shot speed is not great necessitating a longer lead, it releases instantlywhen I hit the trigger.
I seem to need a more stable platform to shoot rails anywhere near as effectively, but everyone is different.

Lotsa fun finding your groove though, good luck.

PS.

The very best pilots don't fly full f/a off. They toggle to use the benefits and advantages of each mode as needed.

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

Shouldn't the small gimbal of fixed weapons help to hit a particular module?
And luckily you rather snipe modules of large (easy to hit) ships than twitchy eagles that go pop in a few seconds _if_ hit.

I am aware that mouse is better for FAoff combat, but imo the hotas/pedal solution is much more fun.

Yes, you are correct. If you target a subsystem, the very small gimbal effect will happen on the module with fixed weapons. Also, I use a hotas- VKB Gladiator MK II and a TWCS Throttle. It works well. Since you're using pedals, you've got a lot of options. The T16000M is excellent, btw. I only upgraded from it because the twist wasn't as accurate as I would have liked. Since you're not using it for yaw control, you're in good shape.

Do map out some curves on that bad boy though. It helps a lot more than you might think. The TARGET GUI is pretty easy to use. Just be aware that it replaces your regular joystick with a virtual one, so you'll need to remap your joystick in Elite for it to work.

 

[Herbrand]

Can people REALLY fight with Fixed Weapons in FA Off all the time? I am slooooowly learning FA Off but I always switch to FA On to steady up my shots.

It seems downright impossible to me to aim at a fast-moving target otherwise; I also fly with a Warthog stick, so that may be part of the problem.

 

[Knightshark]

The T16000M is excellent, btw. I only upgraded from it because the twist wasn't as accurate as I would have liked. Since you're not using it for yaw control, you're in good shape.

Actually i am using it for yaw. :roll eyes:

I have lateral and vertical thruster on the pedals (rudder and toes), but since i will probably at some point upgrade to a real flightstick (VPC T50?) i am considering mapping the yaw to the rudder. But then i lack one analoge axis for a lateral/vertical thruster. In end i will probably get the VPC Throttle which has an analoge thumbstick i can use for the lateral/vertical thrusters, the toe breaks for forward/reverse thrust (i only use the throttle in super cruise), and the rudder for yaw. But to be honest i find it very unusual to aim with my feet, but i guess this is just a matter of getting used to it. But i already ordered the MFC Crosswinds, so i am happy to give it a try as soon as they arrive.

 

[777Driver]

Can people REALLY fight with Fixed Weapons in FA Off all the time? I am slooooowly learning FA Off but I always switch to FA On to steady up my shots.

It seems downright impossible to me to aim at a fast-moving target otherwise; I also fly with a Warthog stick, so that may be part of the problem.

IMO correct setup is essential before you even begin to attempt learning to fly FA-OFF. When I say correct setup I mean what feels comfortable for you.

In my case the following is essential -

A comfortable seating & flight control position and a place to rest my arm so that control is steady. I keep the sidestick and throttle low down to either side of my gaming chair, when the stick is pushed full forward (nose down) my arm is just about at full reach, same with the throttle, at full throttle my arm is almost completely extended, both arms are firmly on the armrest of the gaming chair.

For a joystick I go with the Logitech attack 3, it's a short throw stick without any twist action, the stick is very cheap but incredibly precise, reminds me a lot of the A320 sidestick. Pedals are optional, for me it is essential, throttle I stick with the X52.

In-game setup, the controller options in ED is an incredibly powerfull tool, way too much to go into here, however correct setup including dead zones is essential.

Joystick curves is also a great tool to fine tune everything. Once you are comfortable you'll find the learning curve becomes much easier. I had a fly around when I built my new rig, things weren't setup correctly, my flying was sloppy despite being very experienced with FA-OFF on my old rig, after I spent the time to tweak everything I was back to pin point accuracy.

 

[Sup3rfluiD]

the very first step, before ship selection or weapons is settings.
101- is to toggle "yaw into roll" option to the OFF setting. will save a lot of angst

 

[Aris_]

Shouldn't the small gimbal of fixed weapons help to hit a particular module?
And luckily you rather snipe modules of large (easy to hit) ships than twitchy eagles that go pop in a few seconds _if_ hit.

I am aware that mouse is better for FAoff combat, but imo the hotas/pedal solution is much more fun.

for that to work effective you need to be in a certain distance usually above 1.5km if you use twist yaw is easier to control micro-corrections than pedals, always fingers then arm last feet when talking about precision corrections

also mouse can change faster dpi on the fly an fps heritage were you have to change curves via 3rd party util. for "comparable" precision

 

[Knightshark]

for that to work effective you need to be in a certain distance usually above 1.5km if you use twist yaw is easier to control micro-corrections than pedals, always fingers then arm last feet when talking about precision corrections

also mouse can change faster dpi on the fly an fps heritage were you have to change curves via 3rd party util. for "comparable" precision

Whether pedals or twist are better seems to be debatable around here. But i am curious if there are tools to switch joystick curves on the fly by holding down a joystick button. Could be very useful.

 

[the100thmonkey]

the very first step, before ship selection or weapons is settings.
101- is to toggle "yaw into roll" option to the OFF setting. will save a lot of angst

Doesn't it default to off?

*edit*

Just checked - it doesn't. I used to have it switched off, but yeah... reinstalls.

 

[777Driver]

Whether pedals or twist are better seems to be debatable around here. But i am curious if there are tools to switch joystick curves on the fly by holding down a joystick button. Could be very useful.

I wouldn't even say debatable, if you suck using pedals then obviously twist is the better option. There is a reason you don't have twist action or KB/M in Fighter jets or drone stations.

 

[the100thmonkey]

Whether pedals or twist are better seems to be debatable around here. But i am curious if there are tools to switch joystick curves on the fly by holding down a joystick button. Could be very useful.

I don't know for sure, since I don't (actually can't, but that's not an easily solvable problem given my preference of inputs) use it, but Joystick Gremlin seems to provide that functionality - you can switch modes on-the-fly using inputs you define.

http://whitemagic.github.io/JoystickGremlin/overview/

 

[Dbrn47]

Eagle, Viper III, Vulture.

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

Can people REALLY fight with Fixed Weapons in FA Off all the time? I am slooooowly learning FA Off but I always switch to FA On to steady up my shots.

It seems downright impossible to me to aim at a fast-moving target otherwise; I also fly with a Warthog stick, so that may be part of the problem.

Yes. It's hard to explain this without getting all Yoda on you, but think about it like this- You're trying to aim your guns. Stop doing that. Aim your ship. Not the direction your nose is facing- aim your whole ship. Aim your flight trajectory. When you do that, you don't have any wild swings of movement to have a target in your reticle- just a small adjustment here or there.

Just have a thought exercise for a moment. Imagine two identical ships flying side by side. In order for one to hit the other with guns and maintain flight path, it just needs to change facing 90 degrees. If the target tries to circle around, the predator needs only to drop outside of the circle, and then the prey becomes an obvious target flying around in a circle. That is what flying with FAOFF and fixed weapons is really like. That's why it's fun. It's not just doing something difficult for the challenge. It bends your mind into a different way of thinking.