Ship Transfer Costs - These Prices are Nutty!

Shipping price = labor + insurance + fuel + return trip fees + hazard pay

Just saying, the insurance cost alone would be quite high.

The price of shipping seems pretty reasonable to me. Any cheaper and there'd be little incentive to move it yourself and ship transfer/taxi would become the default mode of travel.
 
As already stated, I have done this trip twice and relocated to Jaques in order to play the next stage in the ED play scenario, did not expect FD to make bringing the rest of my fleet to Jaques impossible due to the high costs.

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You can try to paint it any way you like, I don't agree that the current prices are realistic and think they need to be trimmed.
Its not ment to be easy.
Because you have been there once or twice or even a billion times should change nothing.

Go there with a generic asp and then outfit it at jaques.
Its the frontiere , the wild west of space. what lave once was many years ago.
Its normal to have low tech ships there.
Its normal to have exploration ships acting as combat ships.

Unless of course you are hyper rich.

Of course you can have your opinion.
But so can I.

And I think its just about okay , if too fast.

Elite used to make you pay to dock on starports , let it be that way again I say.
 
You are shaping 'logic' to match your opinion... don't make make me post a picture of a ship, shipping ships!

which would be another unfortunate example, since that particular ship-shipping ship, ships the ships which are not yet built/fitted to move with their own propulsion.

doing otherwise, ie loading up that ship-shipping ship with ships which are fully operational, would be utterly idiotic in terms of engineering, therefore no one does that.

But you are right: There is no way in heck it makes any economic sense to put a couple of racing cars into the back of a truck in order to get them to the track. That's why nobody does it. :|

a special case, and not applicable - racing cars are not built for ordinary roads, and driving them on the roads to their destination could undermine their performance or even damage them.

which is not the case with an anaconda. if it travels 20 light years with its owner in the captain's seat, it can do that with someone else as well.

That's the way the lore dictates it is. Make up your own head-cannon if preferred, but that's how it is and that is what they based it on.

one or more guys in development team, you mean. that's not 'lore'. its a game mechanics decision, which can just easily be changed with the next meeting on the topic.

So make up another story in your head?

there is a limit to making up stories to increase one's suspense of disbelief.

at one point the disparage becomes too large - like suspending disbelief for seeing a movie like interstellar versus the independence day.

But ultimately, your reasoning works backwards: You have the end-goal you want and work the rational of what is and is not 'logical' and 'economically viable' in order to back that up.

not at all.

to be honest, being able to haul ships or not haul ships are not particularly among my end goals for this game.

im here for an alternate reality. and a ship requiring multiples of its value to be piloted by someone else than its owner to a location breaks all kinds of realism which could be mustered inside a construed game world.

As touched upon already in this thread 'immersion' alone is nonsensical reason to implement things in the game, given that it is a game in a sci-fi universe, which breaks immersion by snapping the laws of physics over its knees and allows us to respawn.

immersion and inside-universe realism are critical to any game which are not simple arcade platformers or anything of the sort.

this is a space game. it tells us that events transpire in space 2000 years into the future.

there may be things which are unrealistic by today's reality, like bending the laws of physics. but as we are already bending the laws of physics of 100 years ago, one can easily slide past that and it wouldnt hurt suspense of disbelief that much.

but when someone else just piloting a ship from the same route you just flew in and ask multiples of the ship value for it, it breaks realism in any construed reality. less even that is presented as the norm, making it an activity which even is more profitable and easier than running an entire empire - no need for emperors, empresses, cliens system, federation, alliance or politics - just haul ships since it dwarfs any kind of economic activity in the universe!

I do the same, as does everyone: The purpose of the conscious mind is mostly to think of reasons to justify what our unconscious mind already decided ages ago, for reasons entirely of its own which have nothing to do with logic! 'Immersion' is opinion and can blow any way the wind blows. Make an argument for immersion one way and it can be made the other.

actually, there are cases in which no argument can be made - like this.

you made many arguments ranging from putting cars into trucks or ships into ship shipping ships, none of them were applicable because none of them were logical by terms of any space/time reality.

its just beyond explanation why one single captain or a small crew just like the owner's crew, couldnt pilot a ship to a location without incurring multiples or even a huge percentage of the ship cost.

without even talking about the impact on realism inside the game universe - any activity is pointless now - from powerplay to politics to piracy or smuggling, no one needs to put their neck on the line for money and power - they can just haul ships. haul 50 ships, and assemble a fleet for yourself!!
 
No they aren't, but they do help a bit. Every game needs some cash sinks of some kind though. Otherwise money and resources just accumulate.

I disagree with the blithe assessment that the rich won't bother and the poor will be the ones who want to use it and suffer. I don't think there is any basis for that assessment at all. It's plucking 'facts' out of thin air.

I do not believe FD said that mode switching was not an exploit. It is something they are pretty helpless to tackle - which is grossly unfortunate - but I don't think they have said it is how the game is supposed to be played.

Likewise I think it pretty baseless to declare that FD are only considering the upper 5% of players. Entirely baseless in fact: The ship costs for small ships are low. The people complaining are not newbie sidewinder pilots. The people complaining seem to be established players who are basing their assessment that it is 'too expensive' because it is expensive to move a Corvette/Anaconda/Cutter. ;)
I cant even see a single reason why a poor pilot would want to go to colonia. they just dont have the tech or the money.

It makes the game even better , and more focused on RP and ballance.
Not everyone can be the hero. in fact I would argue only 1% should only ever get the chance.

What killed StarWars galaxies ? letting everyone become a jedi , that made all the hardcore leave and thus sony had no more money
 
jaques should be so expensive it's basically impossible to afford bringing ships this way. it's meant to be out there. the frontier. you take only what you can carry and you strip that down to only what's necessary due to the distance and time.

Prices are much more in line for realistic transfers. We've played the game for like 2 years now without ship transfers. Making it something people only resort to if they _really_ _really_ want to not have to pilot the ships themselves is the right choice.

Expensive but not impossible, considering where we are in the future this does not seem to a realistic price modal. Plus the idea of transfering ships should be a common and affordable mechanism.
 
Shipping price = labor + insurance + fuel + return trip fees + hazard pay

Just saying, the insurance cost alone would be quite high.

no pirate would pointlessly risk their life to attack a fully decked out anaconda with an empty cargo hold. its pointless.

and even if you count in powerplay, faction differences, the likelihood of an anaconda getting attacked than a smaller ship is much less. less when someone else than the owner is piloting it. also since this would be a galaxy wide service, few would want to harass and upset ship transfer service providers lest they need it themselves.

.........

and really, no amount of calculation of factors you mentioned above can amount to a decent percentage of a ship's cost, leave aside go over ship's own value. it makes moving a ship pointless as others mentioned - you can just buy and deck out a new one and end up much cheaper.

if you go by insurance, the costs would need to be adjusted over the ship's own insurance cost. and they should not reach a decent amount of ship's value, leave aside exceeding it.

expensive, yes. absurd, no. realism-destroying, hell no.
 
Expensive but not impossible, considering where we are in the future this does not seem to a realistic price modal. Plus the idea of transfering ships should be a common and affordable mechanism.


Realistic? Like paying people to move goods from point A to Point B where you dont even need to equip weapons to make it even with pirates attacking? It simply has to be expensive enough to make it easier to pilot the ship yourself, but if you're especially lazy, you'll pay out the nose to have someone else do it for you. This has to scale exponentially for larger ships because money means exponentially less to players who have T9's and anacondas's etc at their disposal.
 
Realistic? Like paying people to move goods from point A to Point B where you dont even need to equip weapons to make it even with pirates attacking? It simply has to be expensive enough to make it easier to pilot the ship yourself, but if you're especially lazy, you'll pay out the nose to have someone else do it for you. This has to scale exponentially for larger ships because money means exponentially less to players who have T9's and anacondas's etc at their disposal.

I don't mind paying for the transfer but I object to the current price scales, they are not realistic and I am not the only one who thinks this, to simply price ship transfers out of the market place is absurd and counter productive and I don't think a 100 Million credit cost is too small a price to transfer some of the larger ships to Jaques, I do however think a 1.3 billion price tag is a joke.
 
Right, only read to page 5 so if it has been mentioned before...

NEW MISSION! We the players get to ferry the ship that other players are wanting. Then having to buy a Sidewinder ourselfs to get back.
We need some way to 'instantly' move ourselfs though; not likly that there will be a player at the right station that an other want her ship from.

Very good FD, more player interaction. Now get coding that mission! [hotas]
 
jaques should be so expensive it's basically impossible to afford bringing ships this way. it's meant to be out there. the frontier. you take only what you can carry and you strip that down to only what's necessary due to the distance and time.

Prices are much more in line for realistic transfers. We've played the game for like 2 years now without ship transfers. Making it something people only resort to if they _really_ _really_ want to not have to pilot the ships themselves is the right choice.

That was not the use case.
 
we dont have to. we are not paying games to 'suck it up'. it may be your thing and your enjoyment, but it doesnt float many people's boat.
Oh come on! This issue is trivial. Build a bridge.

EDIT: added the quote from Unity100
 
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You are very hostile , there is no need for that. you can disagree or outright hate me without being rude about it.

Engineers is a mixed bag.
However the engineers in lore produce changes to the weapon. they give you the resault regardless of if they did it right or wrong its up to you if you use it.
Think of the weapons and upgrades like overclocking but a billion times more complex.

Now thats the lore part.

The gameplay however , I agree is dumb.
But I never mentioned it , I never even called it ''skill-based''

But elite , is a game about immersion and life-sim. its not because you dont manage a poop-o-meter or something that its not a lifesim.
The game is about you as a member of the pilots federation and your life within the elite universe.

Now as for the other things , everything apart from the SRV are still heavy WIP and will change.

The SRV magic respawn is (a word I cant use on the forum) and was not what was ment to happen , but for no logical reason it was dumbed down to be more casual. I hate it , but its not too bad as you can RP that you made it make to the ship. (or something like that)

NPCs need a lot of work (currently they are brain dead and easy) but the ultimate plan is to not have farm zones and all that (like mentioned in many livestreams)
Not trying to be hostile or rude, I just stated things as they are without preamble. If that sounded a little curt then apologies but I didn't feel I should need to sugar coat matters much like you didn't feel like you needed to sugar coat your own words with statements like "fast and cheap transfer", "silly game elements" and Elite having "invented immersion" - all of which are, with all due respect, highly subjective terms and based on individual opinion that you made sound like they are unquestioning facts.

I didn't brand you hostile for stating things as you see them in your opinion so I'd appreciate you not do that to me, thanks kindly.
 
Personally what I'd like to see is some kind of Super Saver shipping that costs a lot less but takes a lot longer as an option alongside what we already have. I'm at Jaques and have an FDS back in the bubble that I'm rather attached to, but it's a pig and I'd never have the patience to lug that thing 22kly 15ly at a time. But it's also not worth more than 200 million to get it out there; I don't grind money and even if I did there'd be more interesting things to spend that on. On the other hand, I'd be totally comfortable with paying a tenth of the current price to get it here 10 times slower, having it be inaccessible for nearly a month is definitely better to me than not being able to use it at all and I'm in no rush to get hold of it again.
 
Personally what I'd like to see is some kind of Super Saver shipping that costs a lot less but takes a lot longer as an option alongside what we already have. I'm at Jaques and have an FDS back in the bubble that I'm rather attached to, but it's a pig and I'd never have the patience to lug that thing 22kly 15ly at a time. But it's also not worth more than 200 million to get it out there; I don't grind money and even if I did there'd be more interesting things to spend that on. On the other hand, I'd be totally comfortable with paying a tenth of the current price to get it here 10 times slower, having it be inaccessible for nearly a month is definitely better to me than not being able to use it at all and I'm in no rush to get hold of it again.
That was originaly going to be how it worked.
But then they switched to instant , and then to what we have today

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Not trying to be hostile or rude, I just stated things as they are without preamble. If that sounded a little curt then apologies but I didn't feel I should need to sugar coat matters much like you didn't feel like you needed to sugar coat your own words with statements like "fast and cheap transfer", "silly game elements" and Elite having "invented immersion" - all of which are, with all due respect, highly subjective terms and based on individual opinion that you made sound like they are unquestioning facts.

I didn't brand you hostile for stating things as you see them in your opinion so I'd appreciate you not do that to me, thanks kindly.
I am sorry then.

But even if its just my impression , it was clear to me (but I could be delusional) that elite dangerous was sold to us as a open world space sim with a big focus on science and pseudo realism.
What made me jump to buy the game was when david braben mentioned :
-real time loading of the cargo (sadly its cut , but I can see why)
-1;1 scale galaxy with no jump gates or fast travel
-planned features such as walking around and so on.

That and it was an elite game.
The older elite games pushed for immersion a lot more than other games did at the time , such as making you pay to dock at a starport.

When I claimed elite invented immersion , it may have been over the top , but it is said (by many devs) that without elite there would be no games like GTA or X or freelancer. (GTA 1s dev said that GTA was ''elite in the streets'')

I do get touchy on the subject of immersion in elite as its been a focus on the franchise and is something that gets rarer by the second in games sadly.
 
Some of us have so much money we cannot spend it all. Some of us think that 10 mil for a hundred lightyears or so is a reasonable request. If you can't afford it, go fetch it yourself :D
 
250k is nothing when people were making 20-40 million an hour.

Something tells me the OP probably meant >250 million. Either that or he's overreacting, badly!

EDIT: Ok, he's talking about 1 jump. Still, 250,000 is small fry, if you own a Python. Jaques Station, on the other hand... That's just WAY out there in terms of cost to be practically pointless.
 
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I don't get why some people are mad about ship transfer costs. Like the Engineers or Power Play (or any activity one doesn't like), it's optional, so you're free not to use it. I'd rather drop several millions than do mindless return flights to move my ships. Think of ship transfer as a neat way to change base from time to time. It's far from being unreasonable. I'm in Diaguandri atm and some black box missions (for example) net me between at around 400k for 10 minutes of "work". I've not launched 2.2 yet, so I don't know if they are still easy, but you get my point.
 
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