Ship types, concept and classification

Falkenherz

Falkenherz
Hi! I wonder about the concept behind the ship types and design.

- Is it meant to have kind of level1-ships, to be replaced later by level-x-ships? (e.g. Sidewinder, to be replaced by Cobra?)
- Or has each ship a specific function it is supposed to be good in, with later some upgraded versions of the same hull (e.g. like EVE nowadays)?

I really hope for the latter, so that e.g. a Sidewinder still could have advantages even in a late-game situation. It could for example always be a choice for "cheap risk runs" where you expect to be destroyed, or a prime choice for cheap zerg-attacks.

This clarified, I wonder which ship types Elite has?
- "starter ship" = Sidewinder
- "multi-purpose" = Cobra
- "fighter" = Eagle
- "transport" = Hauler, Lacon
- "mining"?
- "exploration"
- "stealth"
- "fast-transport"/"slow-transport"
- What else?

This clarified, I wonder which classifications from RL ships can be used?
- Fighter = Eagle
- Light Cruiser = Sidewinder
- Heavy Cruiser = Cobra
- Destroyer = Viper?
- Battleship = Anaconda?
- Hauler = Hauler
- Freighter = Lacon
etc.

Just wondering if there can be put some general systematics into ship types and classifications.
 

hunvagy

hunvagy
If you have the time, I just leave this here for you:

http://www.jades.org/shiprevs.htm

It's old, pertains FFE, but I do think that in regards to ships, this is the route FD will take again, as it has in the past. That is the best ship is usually the one you'll feel most comfortable with for the role you want to play. Of course that doesn't mean that there aren't differences, but more expensive doesn't always mean better.
 

Falkenherz

Falkenherz
Thanks for the link, however, this is an individual overview of each ship, not ship classification as I am looking for. :)

If there are going to be 25 ships, I wonder how much we can actually use in a late-game setting. I worry that the choice will be down to 6 or 7, if Frontier follows the "level-x-ship" approach. Having some ship types with higher-grade-weapon mounts already points towards that some ship with lower-grade mounts are going to be obsolete in the late-game.

I would advise Frontier to go for a more functional type of classification, so that we can actually choose between 25 ships and adapt them for 50+ different situations.
 

TallTroll

T
>> There going to be 25 ships. We just have a taste of 6 of them right now.

There will be 25 ships *on release*. I'm sure more will be along presently. Designing a new ship sounds like a fairly major task in terms of dev resource, as it needs a flight model, complete 3D model, inside and out, and every new piece of equipment will need to be modeled for *every* hull etc.

>> - Is it meant to have kind of level1-ships, to be replaced later by level-x-ships? (e.g. Sidewinder, to be replaced by Cobra?)

Sort of. Bigger ships will give you more options. Some ships are better at certain tasks. You could trade in a Sidewinder, or fight in a Lakon 9....

>> - Or has each ship a specific function it is supposed to be good in, with later some upgraded versions of the same hull (e.g. like EVE nowadays)?

Sort of :D. It won't be an exact, linear progression. You can also change what a ship is good at by changing its' equipment. The Cobra is specifically meant as a multi-role ship, so you could fit it with extra shields, weapon cooling systems, heavy armour etc for combat, or a bigger hyperdrive, repair systems and enhanced sensors for exploring, or just not spend much on it and use it as a decent size, fairly quick trader.
 

Razorwire

Razorwire
I think the ships are of broad types and sizes.

Sidewinder is small, general purpose
Eagle is small, fighter
Hauler is small, trader
Cobra is medium, general purpose
Lakon is huge, trader
Anaconda is huge, general purpose

Small/medium/large/huge in fighter/trader/gen.purpose/liner/miner, and a couple of "cross-class" and/or ultra-specialist ships; you have your 25 initial release ships, plus a template for more ships in future DLC.
 

Joe Spivey

Joe Spivey
Classifications don't really mean anything. If I take and Anaconda and fill its hold mainly with support add-ons, exploration drones and sensors and use most of its hard points for various types of mining laser then I have a pretty cool exploration ship.

If I take the same Anaconda and fill it full or reinforced bulkheads, combat add-ons and use its hard points for the best weaponry money can buy then I have a mean mother mini battlewagon.

Same Anaconda stripped down with no weaponry and the best engines I can buy coupled with stealth add-ons then I have a blockade runner that can do the Kessel run in... whatever.


Mix and match any and all of these and I can produce whatever 'class' of ship I want.

Or to put it another way, there is no simple linear progression from worst to best ship available.
 

Razorwire

Razorwire
This is the current list I've been compiling:

Confirmed flyable-at-release ships
  • Sidewinder [in game]
  • Eagle (federal variant) [in game]
  • Eagle (imperial variant) [DB comment]
  • Hauler [in game]
  • Lakon type 9 [in game]
  • Cobra mkiii [in game]
  • Anaconda [in game]
  • Panther Clipper [DB comment]
  • Viper mkiii [in - Backer's Peek/Newsletter, flyable - dev comment]
  • Asp [Dev comment]
  • Adder [Dev comment]
  • Dolphin Yacht [in - Newsletter, flyable - dev comment]
  • Orca Yacht [in - Newsletter, flyable - dev comment]
  • Beluga Liner [in - Edge Article, flyable - dev comment]
  • Imperial Courier/Cutter [Dev Comment]
  • Federal Courier/Cutter [DB Comment]
  • Fer De Lance [only hinted at, Dev comment]
  • Python [Dev comment]

Stuff only goes on the list if I've seen the comment/post/newsletter/interview personally.

Joe Spivey said:
Classifications don't really mean anything. If I take and Anaconda and fill its hold mainly with support add-ons, exploration drones and sensors and use most of its hard points for various types of mining laser then I have a pretty cool exploration ship.

If I take the same Anaconda and fill it full or reinforced bulkheads, combat add-ons and use its hard points for the best weaponry money can buy then I have a mean mother mini battlewagon.

Same Anaconda stripped down with no weaponry and the best engines I can buy coupled with stealth add-ons then I have a blockade runner that can do the Kessel run in... whatever.


Mix and match any and all of these and I can produce whatever 'class' of ship I want.

Or to put it another way, there is no simple linear progression from worst to best ship available.
Click to expand...

You can make a better fighting ship out of the Eagle than the Hauler will ever be though. And vice versa; the Hauler will nearly always beat the Eagle for trading.

Ships will have certain inherent advantages in certain areas.
 
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Mephane

Mephane
Razorwire said:
I think the ships are of broad types and sizes.

Sidewinder is small, general purpose
Eagle is small, fighter
Hauler is small, trader
Cobra is medium, general purpose
Lakon is huge, trader
Anaconda is huge, general purpose

Small/medium/large/huge in fighter/trader/gen.purpose/liner/miner, and a couple of "cross-class" and/or ultra-specialist ships; you have your 25 initial release ships, plus a template for more ships in future DLC.
Click to expand...

Viper will probably be "medium, fighter".
 

Bird Man

Bird Man
Falkenherz said:
Thanks for the link, however, this is an individual overview of each ship, not ship classification as I am looking for. :)

If there are going to be 25 ships, I wonder how much we can actually use in a late-game setting. I worry that the choice will be down to 6 or 7, if Frontier follows the "level-x-ship" approach. Having some ship types with higher-grade-weapon mounts already points towards that some ship with lower-grade mounts are going to be obsolete in the late-game.

I would advise Frontier to go for a more functional type of classification, so that we can actually choose between 25 ships and adapt them for 50+ different situations.
Click to expand...

Well that would be highly unrealistic, wouldn't it? All ships are not created equal. It stands to reason that as you progress through the game and earn more credits, you will be able to purchase BETTER (not just different) equipment.

I certainly don't think that there should be only 6 or 7 ships that make sense to use late in the game but at the same time, there should be quite a few ships that are more geared towards beginner/budget players and quite a few ships that are more geared towards advanced players who can afford (and have access to) the best equipment.

In other words, new ships shouldn't just be cosmetic.
 

kenwshmt

kenwshmt
Falkenherz said:
Hi! I wonder about the concept behind the ship types and design.

- "mining"?
Click to expand...

I Think the Hauler is a starter miner as well; what other good is one hard point on a ship that will over heat with a real weapon on it?

A mining laser there would be the best fit.
 

HoshiQaVam

H
Falkenherz said:
This clarified, I wonder which classifications from RL ships can be used?
- Fighter = Eagle
- Light Cruiser = Sidewinder
- Heavy Cruiser = Cobra
- Destroyer = Viper?
- Battleship = Anaconda?
- Hauler = Hauler
- Freighter = Lacon
Click to expand...

I guess before trying to place the ships in classes, you probably need to establish a list of them first.

These are your typical classes for sci-fi, most of which are based on modern navies;

Fighter Classifications

- Superiority
- Fighter
- Bomber (Light/Heavy)
- Multi-role

Support Classifications

- Missile Boat
- Gunship

Freighter Classifications

- Cargo (Light/Heavy)
- Transport (Light/Medium/Heavy/Super)
- Freighter (Light/Medium/Heavy/Super)

Capital Classifications

- Corvette
- Frigate
- Destroyer
- Cruiser (Cruiser/Carrier)
- Battleship

The problem you'll have placing Elite ships into any given classification is that most can fill several classes depending on your weapon load-out.

For example;

- Superiority - Eagle (with 3 lasers/cannons)
- Multi-role - Eagle (with at least 1 missile launcher)
- Light Bomber - Eagle (with 3 missile launchers)

- Heavy Bomber - Cobra (with at least 3 missile launchers)
- Multi-role - Cobra (with at least 2 lasers/cannons)
- Heavy Cargo - Cobra (with less than 2 weapons installed)

- Missile Boat - Anaconda (with at least 5 missile launchers)
- Gunship - Anaconda (with at least 4 lasers/cannons)

Then the ships that really only fill one role;

- Fighter - Sidewinder
- Light Cargo Hauler - Hauler
- Heavy Freighter - Lakon 9
 

Gwyvern

Gwyvern
Your second list isnt applicable, mos of the ships available will fall into the "fighter/heavy fighter" weight class, the anaconda would be a gunship, and there will be corvettes az the largest combat vessels available to players, the various classes of large ship you listed are reserved for npc factions
 

HoshiQaVam

H
Bird Man said:
It stands to reason that as you progress through the game and earn more credits, you will be able to purchase BETTER (not just different) equipment.
Click to expand...

It's been confirmed that most, if not all, ship modules will be upgradeable. So I am sure there will be people that find specific loadouts to make all flyable ships useful in their own right.

However, that level of modification is pretty much impossible to balance across the board, so it's a fair assumption that there will always be a FOM that most fly at given ship sizes - and the Cobra is quite clearly the first of that.
 

HoshiQaVam

H
Gwyvern said:
Your second list isnt applicable, mos of the ships available will fall into the "fighter/heavy fighter" weight class, the anaconda would be a gunship, and there will be corvettes az the largest combat vessels available to players, the various classes of large ship you listed are reserved for npc factions
Click to expand...

I know, I just felt it deserved listing them since they're still likely present - even if we don't fly them.
 
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