Short Range vs Rapid Fire on lasers.

[DemiserofD]

I find myself confused as to the purpose of Rapid Fire vs Short Range, specifically on burst and pulse lasers. Namely, why do both exist?

Consider their benefits and downsides.

They both boost your DPS.

They both boost your DPE.

They both reduce your effective range.

They both increase heat generation.

Rapid Fire trades slightly less of a range nerf for an equivalently lower DPS and DPE boost, while also causing it to generate significantly more heat.

But as a whole, they both seem to do exactly the same things! Getting grade 5 Rapid Fire is basically like getting grade 4.5 Short Range, with DPS right between grades 4 and 5, but with a host of other downsides alongside it.

You could argue that it's to proc experimental effects, but the only one that could really matter with is Scramble Spectrum, and that happens so often it needs a cooldown!

So...what's the deal? Am I missing something here?

 

[Jmanis]

Rapid fire introduces jitter, which nixes your accuracy.

DPS and DPE are fine as general metrics, but it misses the subtlety of being lots of lower damage shots vs fewer higher damage shots. It means missing a shot is more damaging to your DPS if you miss with short range... while it's less of a problem for rapid fire if you miss a shot... but you're more likely to miss shots.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

I basically ignore that rapid fire exists, the jitter is too terrible.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I basically ignore that rapid fire exists, the jitter is too terrible.

One good reason to use rapid fire. Use it in combination with inertial impact on burst lasers and have yourself a disco light show!

 

[Danieros]

One good reason to use rapid fire. Use it in combination with inertial impact on burst lasers and have yourself a disco light show!

A few weeks ago I did all the engineering for a FDL using those, thinking it would be a secret awesome build, completely underestimating the jitter. It hilariously fails to hit stuff even 500m away. Maybe it could be a capital ship killer if you approach the hardpoints at point blank range and vaporize them.

 

[Jmanis]

One good reason to use rapid fire. Use it in combination with inertial impact on burst lasers and have yourself a disco light show!

Oof!

Edit: so, i ran some maths... 3 degrees is 54m at 1km... considering only the biggest ships have a dimension larger than 100m, that's insane inaccuracy at any practical range.

 

[Kamiyoda]

One good reason to use rapid fire. Use it in combination with inertial impact on burst lasers and have yourself a disco light show!

I use them because I'm a huge Star Wars fan and as an Imperial want to miss as much as possible for maximum lore accuracy

 

[Craith]

A few weeks ago I did all the engineering for a FDL using those, thinking it would be a secret awesome build, completely underestimating the jitter. It hilariously fails to hit stuff even 500m away. Maybe it could be a capital ship killer if you approach the hardpoints at point blank range and vaporize them.

I used it on cytoscramblers (with their own additional jitter). I've switched to short range now, since if I do have to be within 500m anyhow, I might as well get more out of it

 

[bubbabenali]

I put Rapid Fire on some pluses sometimes, for emmesive munitions or scramble spectrum. Getting some damage out of the status HPs - making them more effective than effective modded beams.
The Jitter isn't that bad at normal engagement range, just don't hope to snipe modules with them.

 

[Jmanis]

I put Rapid Fire on some pluses sometimes, for emmesive munitions or scramble spectrum. Getting some damage out of the status HPs - making them more effective than effective modded beams.
The Jitter isn't that bad at normal engagement range, just don't hope to snipe modules with them.

Just rapid fire is 0.5 degrees at all levels... i think it used to be worse but it got buffed. That translates to about 3m per km, so it's much more tolerable, unless you're hitting small ships at range.

But dat 3 degrees on inertial impact...

 

[DemiserofD]

What if Rapid Fire gave a bonus to gimbal speed, too?

Especially handy for turrets, as sometimes they can't move fast enough to keep up with speedy targets, and sometimes it takes a second to get on target when they approach from behind. But generally useful for gimbals, too, since it could basically just snap to any target immediately.

That would at least give them a distinct and unique niche, rather than just being a direct competitor to Short Range.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Just rapid fire is 0.5 degrees at all levels... i think it used to be worse but it got buffed. That translates to about 3m per km, so it's much more tolerable, unless you're hitting small ships at range.

But dat 3 degrees on inertial impact...

Its funny because while making a thermal weapon do kinetic damage apparently sends it bonkers, making a kinetic weapon do thermal (incendary rounds) has no such effect.

 

[bubbabenali]

Its funny because while making a thermal weapon do kinetic damage apparently sends it bonkers, making a kinetic weapon do thermal (incendary rounds) has no such effect.

Well, there is the ammo consumption of multi cannons

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Well, there is the ammo consumption of multi cannons

Yeah, its a factor, but really, i can last 2 CZ with the ammo in my MCs. Its not a major factor. Add in synthesis and its even less of a factor. Combine that with thermals draining WEP quicker and generating more heat, and it seems like things are already balanced as it is, so jitter as a further balancing factor seems strange.

 

[Craith]

Incendiary Rounds reduce the rate of fire slightly, while Inertial Impact increases the damage by 50% - offset by the 3° jitter, but still a good deal - nothing for module sniping - unless you are close.

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

What if Rapid Fire gave a bonus to gimbal speed, too?

I've always wished this was related to scanners. Better scanner, better gimbal tracking and less jitter.

I tried rapid fire on a number of weapons and really didn't like it.
Since I very rarely engage with weapons when the target is over 1.5km I opted for short range for both MCs and Beams. This fits my get up close and personal play style...but it does have it's draw backs....mainly engaging any cmdr who reverses in FA-Off and fires long range fixed weapons.

 

[Starman 1966]

Back in the day rapid fire came with increased armour piercing. After this had been removed it became obsolete. Such as DS in frag cannons after the buff to OC.

 

[here_it_comes]

I used it on cytoscramblers (with their own additional jitter). I've switched to short range now, since if I do have to be within 500m anyhow, I might as well get more out of it

OC on Cytos is the way to go as their Power drain is already very low.

Rapid Fire is trash. I still use it on some MCs for the spectacle, but it boggles the mind that someone came up with the numbers for Rapid Fire and thought it looked remotely reasonable. Rapid Fire is just OC with a lot of missed shots added and, to add insult to injury, doesn't even out-DPS OC even if you are point blank and miss not a shot. A real shame that Engineering options are so pigeonholed by trash design.

Short Range I find to be excellent on PAs for medium/small ships, and Rails for fast small ships.

 

[CMDR Jayce MacLeod]

I use 2 rapid fire pulse lasers on my Imperial Eagle. There is a bit of jitter but it's not that bad, no where near as bad as something like inertial impact experimental. They work very well, but they do chew though capacitors pretty readily.

 

[Craith]

OC on Cytos is the way to go as their Power drain is already very low.

Rapid Fire is trash. I still use it on some MCs for the spectacle, but it boggles the mind that someone came up with the numbers for Rapid Fire and thought it looked remotely reasonable. Rapid Fire is just OC with a lot of missed shots added and, to add insult to injury, doesn't even out-DPS OC even if you are point blank and miss not a shot. A real shame that Engineering options are so pigeonholed by trash design.

Short Range I find to be excellent on PAs for medium/small ships, and Rails for fast small ships.

if you have inertial impact on them (which I do), you have to be within 500m anyhow, might as well go for short range blaster.