Should Jump Range Be Used As A Balancing Factor?

[djadjok]

Hate Much?

Sorry? I didn't catch this. So far I see no any objective or subjective reason for me to hate anyone in-game or in this forum thread. If you've found my style of explanation sarcastic or insulting - sorry once more, no offence intended.

how is having a bigger jump range giving me the iWin? I can already buy every ship in the game, minus the Cutter and Corvette. And I'm doing the rank for those now.

I'm glad for you as I've said already. I also can afford such a "possible" option but this doesn't change my opinion that I find adding this option as unfair to the rest of players. Also, I prefer to omit all discussion further about "payable" options here in order to avoid another dozen of pages of completely off-topic discussion.

Thats one long Butt diatribe, just because you want to force people into playing the game how YOU want. It's a GAME that is an open sandbox. So don't force me to play your way!!

Incorrect statement. We both are playing in this game already. You (and I) have already accepted - and agreed - with the current rules. You suggested to change them. So who suggest/is forcing to change the current situation?

Oh BTW, if I want to buy the game and be a GOD there, I can!!! It's called Solo, I get that option everytime I log on!

Incorrect statement. You haven't bought your own copy of the ED universe, you bought only the right to access ED universe - common for all players in all modes (open, group and solo). I don't want to suggest anything like this here, it will be solely your decision, but you can try any kind of god-mode cheat - if there any? - in solo mode, and FDev will show you "who is the god" in their universe=))))) (just to underline if it's not clear enough - this kind of activity violates EULA with all applicable consequences)

 

[jmp470]

Why is it unfair? Also, fix it / sell it to me and keep me on my own server for all I care. Why does it bother you so much that it sucks and I want it changed? After playing the game since it came out and supporting FD with Horizons, I just want something changed to stop the ridiculous time sink. Since, I've already been to SAG-A, I could care less if it takes a new player 8 hours or 8 months to do the trip.
But, I'm free to play my way and you yours. I don't care what you do! We are both entitled to our opinion, but, soon ED will not be the only space sim in town. I play 90% ED and 10% SC. ED definitely has the leg up, but, the gap is closing. I want them to keep that leg!

 

[Ginrikuzuma]

Why is it unfair? Also, fix it / sell it to me and keep me on my own server for all I care. Why does it bother you so much that it sucks and I want it changed? After playing the game since it came out and supporting FD with Horizons, I just want something changed to stop the ridiculous time sink. Since, I've already been to SAG-A, I could care less if it takes a new player 8 hours or 8 months to do the trip.
But, I'm free to play my way and you yours. I don't care what you do! We are both entitled to our opinion, but, soon ED will not be the only space sim in town. I play 90% ED and 10% SC. ED definitely has the leg up, but, the gap is closing. I want them to keep that leg!

except you want the extreme that almost noone is proposing. What some of us are simply proposing is an increase in the low end of the spectrum.


First and foremost the problem with doubling FSD range for those with cash goes against the idea of this game selling only cosmetics (paintjobs, bobbleheads, etc.)
Second it puts everyone in every role at a disadvantage if those with money can double their FSD with money (in addition to the use of FSD synthesis I imagine).

1 / 2 pirates/bounty hunters without cash won't be able to pay to keep up with the traders/pirates that have the cash to jump way beyond them and thus easily flee

3 explorers without cash are unable to reach systems that those with cash are able to reach (those systems out in the very far edges of the galaxy where most are still unreachable even with J3 mats on a 40ly anaconda)

4 traders/smugglers with cash are able to make credits faster by shortening travel time in comparison to those without the cash to double their FSD ranges.



There is a major difference between simply adding 3-4 LYs (at least that's what I propose some are suggesting a percentage instead but that would benefit some more than others) to the bottom end of the jump range so combat-fitted ships are able to move reasonably than "double everything!" you are suggesting with your frontier store addition of paying $50 so some can move faster.



also having an entire server to yourself so it doesn't affect others is stupidly unreasonable and don't even think about instead suggesting solo mode be solo because that is a hornets nest that is just a derailment of this thread.


The only people in their own real little world are those that are shadowbanned to my understanding.

 

[t_strike]

So it seems that the issue is low end jump ranges, not the high end. I personally like both combat and exploration, and I don't want a ship that can be anywhere instantly, but, at the same time, moving a combat fit ship with only a 13.5LY jump range is painful. As such, I went to check the wiki for the FSD fuel usage formula, and see what I would change to make thee lower end jump ranges better, while not making the top ends ridiculous. As far as I could tell, the power constant, or the class varible, seemed to be the best shot. Being as I didn't want to just throw out an idea with no backing, I went and used coriolis.io to make two builds for every ship, one that was the maximum possible jump range, and one that was actually likely to be used. I took the masses for each of these builds, and plugged them into the FSD formula with all of the original values, then, I went and changed the power constant, checked the plausible high ends and the plausible low ends, resulting in this table.

ship	orig max	orig fit	new max	new fit	mass, max range (not explorer fit)	mass, fit range	fsd class
anaconda	39.65	17.87	48.84	22.01	553.5	1228.5	6
asp ex	35.24	23.64	43.86	29.42	349.5	521	5
dbe	34.26	27.15	42.64	34.4	359.5	445.6	5
hauler	32.48	15.78	41.18	20.1	24	49.4	2
asp scout	30.84	18.44	38.76	23.18	187.8	314	4
type-6	30.72	18.19	38.61	22.87	188.5	318.3	4
python	28.76	12.92	35.83	16.01	427.8	953	5
dbs	28.46	21.53	35.76	24.59	203.5	269	4
imp courier	29.49	13.82	35.13	16.46	52.3	111.6	3
adder	28.94	14.9	34.467	17.84	53.3	103	3
keelback	27.15	17.29	34.12	21.73	213.3	335	4
cobra 3	26.87	20.71	33.77	26	215.5	279.6	4
imp clipper	26.92	15.3	33.51	19.04	457.5	805	5
viper 4	25.79	18.62	32.42	23.4	224.5	311	4
type-7	25.29	16.34	31.45	20.36	487.5	753.8	5
imp cutter	25.69	15.5	31.34	18.91	1326.5	2199	7
sidewinder	23.62	12.43	30.02	15.8	33	62.7	2
cobra 4	23.59	15.82	29.65	21.06	245.5	345.6	4
eagel	24.48	15.8	29.16	18.82	63	97.6	3
imp egeal	24.48	15.3	29.16	18.23	63	100.8	3
fas	22.91	14.45	28.52	17.99	537.5	852.2	5
vulture	22.32	14.82	28.04	18.62	259.5	390.8	4
fdl	20.55	12.9	25.9	16.21	281.8	448.9	4
fed corvette	20.65	12.54	25.43	15.44	1063	1750.4	6
viper	20.43	12.88	24.33	15.33	75.5	119.8	3
fed dropship	19.32	12.46	24.05	15.5	637.5	988.2	5
fed gunship	19.2	12.22	23.9	15.21	641.5	1008.2	5
type-9	19.35	12.15	23.83	14.96	1134.5	1806	6
orca	19.08	13.45	23.75	16.74	645.5	916	5

class	power constant	new power constanst	consume	opt mass
2	2	1.8	0.9	90
3	2.15	2	1.8	150
4	2.3	2.1	3	525
5	2.45	2.25	5	1050
6	2.6	2.4	8	1800
7	2.75	2.55	12.8	2700
8	2.9	unknown	unknown	unknown

the only real problem I have with this one is the anaconda, but if the hull mass were to be increased by 40T, it would bring it to right around 45LY, which is, IMO, much more reasonable.

Now, while I admit that this made the higher end high, its not nearly as much as it might seem. Without this change, 1000LY would have taken, lets say around 30-35 jumps, (think that was what I did last trip out), but now it should still take around 25-30, which in the grand sheme of things, isn't that much of a difference. This change does however make it so that basically no ships have to have a jump range less than 15LY while fully fit for use. This change, while it may not seem like much, can take a 200LY route from around 50 jumps (having to go around spaces you can't jump across) to a much more manageable 20-25. This would solve the problem quite well I think.

Sorry if I have any typos, or glaring holes in my thinking, I started this at 2am and finished at 5:30 am. I should probably get some sleep lol.

 

[djadjok]

Why is it unfair?

Developers have claimed that there wouldn't be any payable content giving in-game advantages (besides "seasons") - kind of primary filter for any games I bother to look at. Now you propose to change this.

Also, fix it / sell it to me and keep me on my own server for all I care. Why does it bother you so much that it sucks and I want it changed?

If you'll manage to convince ED really to sell you a separate personal copy of their universe than this will be you personal affair and this cannot (and would not) bother me - personally - at all. I'm not a founder and will not complain (but this my personal position, cannot speak for others)

But, I'm free to play my way and you yours. I don't care what you do! We are both entitled to our opinion, but, soon ED will not be the only space sim in town. I play 90% ED and 10% SC.

Agree. If you've found that SC better fits your gameplay style than ED is better fits mine. Fair. Jack of all trades not always the best solution.

The only people in their own real little world are those that are shadowbanned to my understanding.

Don't know, tend to doubt this. More probable that they've been forced just to play solo mode disregarding their choice.

... simply adding 3-4 LYs (at least that's what I propose some are suggesting a percentage instead but that would benefit some more than others)

So it seems that the issue is low end jump ranges, not the high end.

Once again. I've already posted enough about this in this thread. With all the respect to calculations you've done here I assume that FD invested much more time rethinking actual game mechanics.
The problem that I see here is that there is no issues with jump ranges, there is an issue with your understanding of the game mechanics.
Shortly - you take a short-range fighter/interceptor oriented for local conflicts, overcharge it with weapons/defenses to the extent of transforming it in a pilot- (gunner?)-controlled stationary defense turret and try to convince other players that this is a battle ship and it must fly (more, fly like a long-range bomber!). Also you try to change present game rules/mechanics to be adapted for the ship build of your choice instead of adapting your ship choice and its build to current game mechanics. This is an incorrect approach. Other solutions has been already mentioned.
While all this is my imo, I think that I've at least supplied already a big list or arguments (this, this and this)